Cheap big lathe couldn't say no :(

[Susquatch]

I wonder what the wll of a seatbelt is...I have used those to pull Motos in a pinch (junkyard), apparently you can lift an entire car from the two front belts

The belt itself is designed for 6000 pounds. But because of the way they attach through D-Rings etc, this gets derated to 3000 pounds.

It's prolly not good to think of a seat belt in terms of WLL. Occupant's don't know anything about WLL. They get into a car, put their seat belts on, and expect them to work. Belts work in conjunction with many other aspects of occupant protection - especially the structure and mass of the vehicle itself. Vehicles self destruct in an impact in order to absorb the energy of the impact and spread the load's on the body across a longer period of time so that peak deceleration forces don't exceed the body's limits.

As others have noted above, they are also designed to stretch in order to reduce the instantaneous load on an occupant's body by spreading the load's deceleration across a greater distance.

It's always important to recognize that any car accident involves 3 collisions that all happen in sequence. When the car hits something, when the body hits the inside of the car, and when the organs and brain hit the inside of the body. It's the last of these 3 that kills. Everything in the entire vehicles energy absorption system is designed to keep the deceleration rates of the 3rd one within reasonable survivable limits.

It's very easy for me to imagine lifting a car using two belts. But again, seat belts are not designed around the concept of working load limits even though many people do talk about them that way.

 

[Chicken lights]

The belt itself is designed for 6000 pounds. But because of the way they attach through D-Rings etc, this gets derated to 3000 pounds.

It's prolly not good to think of a seat belt in terms of WLL. Occupant's don't know anything about WLL. They get into a car, put their seat belts on, and expect them to work. Belts work in conjunction with many other aspects of occupant protection - especially the structure and mass of the vehicle itself. Vehicles self destruct in an impact in order to absorb the energy of the impact and spread the load's on the body across a longer period of time so that peak deceleration forces don't exceed the body's limits.

As others have noted above, they are also designed to stretch in order to reduce the instantaneous load on an occupant's body by spreading the load's deceleration across a greater distance.

It's always important to recognize that any car accident involves 3 collisions that all happen in sequence. When the car hits something, when the body hits the inside of the car, and when the organs and brain hit the inside of the body. It's the last of these 3 that kills. Everything in the entire vehicles energy absorption system is designed to keep the deceleration rates of the 3rd one within reasonable survivable limits.

It's very easy for me to imagine lifting a car using two belts. But again, seat belts are not designed around the concept of working load limits even though many people do talk about them that way.

Have you ever seen the yellow cam lock systems, to allow you a little slack in seat belts? I wish passenger vehicles did but that probably opens up auto manufacturers to lawsuits

 

[Dan Dubeau]

You forgot the fourth hit. When the Wife hits you for getting in an accident.

 

[phaxtris]

The belt itself is designed for 6000 pounds. But because of the way they attach through D-Rings etc, this gets derated to 3000 pounds.

It's prolly not good to think of a seat belt in terms of WLL. Occupant's don't know anything about WLL. They get into a car, put their seat belts on, and expect them to work. Belts work in conjunction with many other aspects of occupant protection - especially the structure and mass of the vehicle itself. Vehicles self destruct in an impact in order to absorb the energy of the impact and spread the load's on the body across a longer period of time so that peak deceleration forces don't exceed the body's limits.

As others have noted above, they are also designed to stretch in order to reduce the instantaneous load on an occupant's body by spreading the load's deceleration across a greater distance.

It's always important to recognize that any car accident involves 3 collisions that all happen in sequence. When the car hits something, when the body hits the inside of the car, and when the organs and brain hit the inside of the body. It's the last of these 3 that kills. Everything in the entire vehicles energy absorption system is designed to keep the deceleration rates of the 3rd one within reasonable survivable limits.

It's very easy for me to imagine lifting a car using two belts. But again, seat belts are not designed around the concept of working load limits even though many people do talk about them that way.

6000lbs! what! ive been spending way to many dolleronies on "straps", i could have just gone to the wreckers and salvaged seatbelts!


the wll part of my question was the joke, of using not really appropriate rigging for rigging.....using belts to pull engines is surprisingly common, although not really to safe, seatbelts dont tie well


i knew i saw a video of a car being lifted by 2 belts, i even found a car being lifted by 1 belt!

 

[Susquatch]

Have you ever seen the yellow cam lock systems, to allow you a little slack in seat belts? I wish passenger vehicles did but that probably opens up auto manufacturers to lawsuits

I assume you mean 5 pt belts. As long as they are designed to work properly with the seat belt anchor system and structure of the vehicle they are superior. Yes, liability is an issue because they are almost never designed to work with the particular vehicle's structure and are usually just an add-on.

For that reason, I'm not a big fan of them. On the other hand, if the vehicle itself isn't developed around actual crash testing of production systems (eg race cars) then I'd choose a 5 point system over a 3 point system all day long.

 

[Susquatch]

6000lbs! what! ive been spending way to many dolleronies on "straps", i could have just gone to the wreckers and salvaged seatbelts!

Again, you cannot compare seat belts to load straps.

Perhaps to be a little clearer. Users choose load straps based on their design rating and their knowledge of the load's and rigging setup. Nobody chooses the right seat belt. They just put them on. So they are not "rated".

Load straps need to be rated (and derated) based on deliberate user choices.

I just gave an idea of their strength, not how well they might perform in a load lifting or load tie down system.

But ya, pretty impressive what a seat belt can do. But don't let the MOT catch you using one to tie down your load! Stick with systems designed for that purpose.

 

[phaxtris]

@Susquatch I am joking, and have been the whole time about the seatbelts.....


well other than lifting engines with them, people do that all the time

 

[Chicken lights]

I assume you mean 5 pt belts. As long as they are designed to work properly with the seat belt anchor system and structure of the vehicle they are superior. Yes, liability is an issue because they are almost never designed to work with the particular vehicle's structure and are usually just an add-on.

For that reason, I'm not a big fan of them. On the other hand, if the vehicle itself isn't developed around actual crash testing of production systems (eg race cars) then I'd choose a 5 point system over a 3 point system all day long.

Nope, still 3pt. All it does is let’s you have slack so the retractor isn’t pulling on the driver all day long

 

[Susquatch]

Nope, still 3pt. All it does is let’s you have slack so the retractor isn’t pulling on the driver all day long

Ya, liability. The belt needs to be snug to work properly.

In your world I wouldn't worry about it. The main purpose of a belt in a big rig is to try and prevent rejections. Occupant protection isn't as difficult in a big truck as it is in a small vehicle.

 

[Susquatch]

@Susquatch I am joking, and have been the whole time about the seatbelts.....


well other than lifting engines with them, people do that all the time

I should have known that...... I can be quite stupid sometimes. Sorry about that.

 

[phaxtris]

I should have known that...... I can be quite stupid sometimes. Sorry about that.

ha all good, text doesn't always convey my lack of seriousness well

on another note....its crazy how strong polyester webbing used in slings/seatbelts/straps are, it always blows me away, especially if you try to cut one....thinking "oh ill just cut this up and toss it so no one gets hurt"........then its all like

followed up by

after realizing this little strap that weighs almost nothing just kicked your a$$

 

[justin1]

I wonder what the wll of a seatbelt is...I have used those to pull Motos in a pinch (junkyard), apparently you can lift an entire car from the two front belts

Ha ye I've done it a few times getting harder tho newer cars don't seem to come with lifting eyes already installed. And the intake is made of plastic and exhaust is sheet metal now a days so no quick and dirty rigging points. So now I just keep set of lifting eyes in tool box.

Bought a adjustable spreader bar few years ago and got to say way better then a seatbelt

When I taught rescue rigging for search and rescue, from which I retired 8 years ago, there was no provision to support human loads on any steel cables. They have been considered to be unacceptable since well before I began teaching. I understand that some climbing equipment has steel cable draws, but based on my rescue experience I would never use them. One day @justin1 you and I should do coffee - I'm sure that we would both enjoy the discussion!

That's all rigging plates and 3/8 rope and few other goodies. A steel sling with no shock absorbers is big no no in most cases lol. I do industrial rope access also know as IRATA or SPRAT few other names for it but those most common in North America.

And we use steel slings for anchor points all the time. But between good rope access technics and most of our back up gear is designed to slip at a few KN there is no real issue with it. That and we aren't spouse to put ourself in more then 1 foot of free fall if done correctly. Which is most of the time but not always lol.

I'll be going threw Calgary maybe in June for a wedding I'll give you a heads up see if we can meet get some Timms or something.

Tried to find close up picture of the equipment I use for rope stuff but I don't take much pictures of work as it's not interesting enough to me save to phone lol. And even had picture of me doing it wrong lol.

 

[phaxtris]

Ha ye I've done it a few times getting harder tho newer cars don't seem to come with lifting eyes already installed.

you mean you dont just tie it in a big dirty knot and pray it doesnt slip apart ??

i dont pull motors as often as i once did, i normally just use a 3/8 chain, ive normally been lucky enough to find an accessory bolt to pull, or an empty hole on the head, when i was doing a lot of one type of engine i made specific lugs.....pulling an ls with a plate bolted to the valley couldn't be any easier

speaking of rope access

i built calgary climbing centers new building a few years back (the one on 16th ave), i was installing the steel for the speed wall while the calgary climbing center guys installed the climbing panels (obviously later in the construction phase)....wearing and using ultra comfy climbing harnesses doing it via rope access......and here i am with my 30lb harness and belt in an s60 boomed all the way straight up and out, with a 200lb piece of hss, swaying 3 ft side to side with every step.....to say me and the helper were jealous of those guys was an understatement

 

[justin1]

you mean you dont just tie it in a big dirty knot and pray it doesnt slip apart ??

i dont pull motors as often as i once did, i normally just use a 3/8 chain, ive normally been lucky enough to find an accessory bolt to pull, or an empty hole on the head, when i was doing a lot of one type of engine i made specific lugs.....pulling an ls with a plate bolted to the valley couldn't be any easier

speaking of rope access

i built calgary climbing centers new building a few years back (the one on 16th ave), i was installing the steel for the speed wall while the calgary climbing center guys installed the climbing panels (obviously later in the construction phase)....wearing and using ultra comfy climbing harnesses doing it via rope access......and here i am with my 30lb harness and belt in an s60 boomed all the way straight up and out, with a 200lb piece of hss, swaying 3 ft side to side with every step.....to say me and the helper were jealous of those guys was an understatement

The fancy out door indoor one you can see from highway?

And ye the rope harnesses are way better then Fall arrest ones mind you sala makes a good fall arrest harness.
The rope harnesses arn't super expensive by them selfs it's all the accessories that add up.

You can find them used for pretty cheap if you keep eyes open. We toss them out all the time if they get small burns or anything in them. I maybe able to snag you one next time I'm back at work. You will just have to soak in bucket to get the oil and coke dust off it lol.

Only a 60 footer lol they don't bounce that bad ever use the super lift? Does 130' they bounce something fierce. Good fun tho.

 

[phaxtris]

The fancy out door indoor one you can see from highway?

And ye the rope harnesses are way better then Fall arrest ones mind you sala makes a good fall arrest harness.
The rope harnesses sent super expensive by them selfs it's all the accessories that add up.

You can find them used for pretty cheap if you keep eyes open. We toss them out all the time if they get small burns or anything in them. I maybe able to snag you one next time I'm back at work. You will just have to soak in bucket to get the oil and coke dust off it lol.

yep thats the one

i do have a pretty good fall arrest harness, a miller revolution with the nomex/kevlar webbing, its the belt, the side d rings, the double lanyard and whattever other crap that gets added on that make it so heavy, i dont think i would go back to a harness that was not nomex/kevlar, they get burnt up to fast, so unfortunately the choices are pretty limited

 

[justin1]

you mean you dont just tie it in a big dirty knot and pray it doesnt slip apart ??

i dont pull motors as often as i once did, i normally just use a 3/8 chain, ive normally been lucky enough to find an accessory bolt to pull, or an empty hole on the head, when i was doing a lot of one type of engine i made specific lugs.....pulling an ls with a plate bolted to the valley couldn't be any easier

Haha I try to avoid dropping the engines I want to reuse lol

And chain works good too and ye usually few holes in the head or use engine mounts. You would be surprised how much a 10mm bolt can hold lol.

Ye if you do engine work often it's worth making/buying few things to make your lift easier when pulling wrecker engines. Got few sizes of lifting eyes

 

[justin1]

yep thats the one

i do have a pretty good fall arrest harness, a miller revolution with the nomex/kevlar webbing, its the belt, the side d rings, the double lanyard and whattever other crap that gets added on that make it so heavy, i dont think i would go back to a harness that was not nomex/kevlar, they get burnt up to fast, so unfortunately the choices are pretty limited

Ye no one seems to make a rope harness with kevlar all just Poly. They do make kevlar ropes they don't get damaged easy you can hold red hot gouging rod on it and won't do anything.

Ye if you have to pay to replace your harness all the time would get expensive real quick. And I used to burn up those "contractor bucket harnesses" all the time they are junk. But they are what most companies supplied.

 

[phaxtris]

Only a 60 footer lol they don't bounce that bad ever use the super lift? Does 130' they bounce something fierce. Good fun tho.

sorry missed this, yea just a 60, ive used the 130's with the extendo axles, they swing pretty good for sure

i think it was because we had the 60 fully extended straight up (jib to) and down and maxed out weight wise it was super sketchy feeling, it wasnt a big enough machine for that boom configuration, but it was the only thing that would fit inside the building

no height problem here if thats what your thinking

 

[justin1]

Nice view all I get to see is oil field crap when I'm up high and nah can't be a ironworker if you got height issues lol

And ye using it like that plus tools I could see tires wanting to lift off a bit if you bounced hard enough. Sounds like the jlg with sicsor lift style arm probly wouldn't of worked for that job. They got the height just not the reach. And bit more stable.

 

[6.5 Fan]

Nice view all I get to see is oil field crap when I'm up high and nah can't be a ironworker if you got height issues lol

My thoughts on climbing and high places is that somebody has to be able to call 911,....that is going to be ME.