Cheap big lathe couldn't say no :(

[Tom Kitta]

Ye I feel you there but they look like nice machines hopefully they came the gap bed, tho guess you could cut a piece out of one to make a replacement

You gonna cnc one of them? Or just need bit bigger swing

I am replacing one with the other - I cannot keep both as I do not have the space to do so.

They are both gap bed lathes but one is missing the gap while the other, through it has the gap, cannot use it due to the fact gap is like brand new while the bed is worn out.

 

[Former Member]

One thing I've noticed on this group, under estimation of weight vs load rating on occasion, more to do with winches and hoists of unknown origin and it reminded me of an experience early on in life.

Ton, Short Ton, 1,000lbs
Ton, Long Ton, 2,000lbs
Ton, Metric Ton, 1,000kg (2,200lbs)

It is important that the information obtained gives the details, if it doesn't I error on caution Load capacities Short Ton, weights Metric Ton, that way if an error is made there is always a factor of safety involved.

And yes before anyone goes on that there are some spelling differences which in some cases are lost in translation or when spoken mistakenly understood as the wrong one (the reason I wrote all the same intentionally).

So, while you may sound foolish asking for confirmation how many pounds or kgs exactly, it ensures you don't get hurt. You be surprised the varied answers you will get even from seemingly knowledgable sources.

 

[Former Member]

I am replacing one with the other - I cannot keep both as I do not have the space to do so.

They are both gap bed lathes but one is missing the gap while the other, through it has the gap, cannot use it due to the fact gap is like brand new while the bed is worn out.

Now the we know a bed grinder (though not close to you), insert the gap and have the lathe ground.

 

[6.5 Fan]

Ton, Metric Ton, 1,000kg (2,200lbs)

I always thought a metric ton was spelled tonne.

 

[Former Member]

I always thought a metric ton was spelled tonne.

Yes I spelled it wrong intentionally, just to make a point.

 

[phaxtris]

All of those come alongs/lever hoists jam up pretty bad changing direction when your anywhere near the capacity, some worse than others, imagine that's what happened to Tom when he tried to lower it

Even chain falls do this near capacity, they just happen to be a lot easier to get going with the chain that always pulls down unlike the come a long that wants to swivel around

 

[phaxtris]

Also.

Short ton/us ton is 2000lbs
Long ton/British ton is 2240lbs
Metric tonne is 1000kg/ ~2200lbs

 

[Susquatch]

One thing I've noticed on this group, under estimation of weight vs load rating on occasion, more to do with winches and hoists of unknown origin and it reminded me of an experience early on in life.

Ton, Short Ton, 1,000lbs
Ton, Long Ton, 2,000lbs
Ton, Metric Ton, 1,000kg (2,200lbs)

It is important that the information obtained gives the details, if it doesn't I error on caution Load capacities Short Ton, weights Metric Ton, that way if an error is made there is always a factor of safety involved.

And yes before anyone goes on that there are some spelling differences which in some cases are lost in translation or when spoken mistakenly understood as the wrong one (the reason I wrote all the same intentionally).

So, while you may sound foolish asking for confirmation how many pounds or kgs exactly, it ensures you don't get hurt. You be surprised the varied answers you will get even from seemingly knowledgable sources.

Another thing that makes this even more confusing is that a metric ton is not spelled ton. It is correctly spelled tonne. What a mess. And as you say, a potentially dangerous mess too!

PS - normally I don't bother pointing out spelling issues. But in this case it is worth pointing out that the spelling issue just adds to the confusion.

 

[Former Member]

Also.

Short ton/us ton is 2000lbs
Long ton/British ton is 2240lbs
Metric tonne is 1000kg/ ~2200lbs

Its either Metric Ton or Tonne but not Metric Tonne.

And thanks stand corrected on the other 2 long night not enough coffee yet.

 

[phaxtris]

Its either Metric Ton or Tonne but not Metric Tonne.

And thanks stand corrected on the other 2 long night not enough coffee yet.

I wasn't trying to correct your spelling on tonne, that was a mistake on my part l,

I honestly could care less of a guy writes metric ton, metric tonne, tonne, ton (metric) it's all the same meaning...I would actually argue that "tonne" on its own can lead to more confusion, as not everyone knows that 'tonne' means a metric ton

Although, for practical purposes up to a few ton's the extra 200lbs per Tonne doesn't make much difference, it would be unusual to lift something that weighed 1.5t-2t with rigging and hoistinf equipment that was rated at exactly 1.5t or 2t, you are normally way over capacity

 

[Susquatch]

It's rather routinely called a Metric Tonne in the Agricultural business.

Glad someone noticed the short and long. It bothered me too but not enough to look it up. Shame on me. Always trust your instincts - al least enough to check on them.

All this discussion only reinforces @Degen's original point. Don't trust others to give you the correct weight.

 

[phaxtris]

Glad someone noticed the short and long. It bothered me too but not enough to look it up.

Well I need something to look up while eating my toast

 

[justin1]

Although, for practical purposes up to a few ton's the extra 200lbs per Tonne doesn't make much difference, it would be unusual to lift something that weighed 1.5t-2t with rigging and hoistinf equipment that was rated at exactly 1.5t or 2t, you are normally way over capacity

That is correct in most cases unless you get into sketchy Chinese rigging or hardware rope

Some of the import stuff use MBS ratings vs the SWL or WLL ratings of proper load lifting devices or rigging

Anything with a SWL or WLL is basicly fool proof as long as it's used as indicated on tag as they have large safety factors. We're MBS stands for minimum breaking strengths and is usually based off x amount of tested specimens to failure and they then will use the weight of failure of the lowest failed specimen of that given batch. Or In case of some Chinese stuff what ever they feel like when it leaves the factory if it doesn't have any sort of QC or certificate or compliance to one of the hundreds of codes for stuff. The certificate they issues with some stuff means nothing half the time if it has no way to be verified to an issuing body lol.

Steel rigging equipment has a minimum of 1:5 safety rating textiles have 1:7 and anything used for human lifting or fall arrest is 1:10 based off 350lbs if I remember correctly or 5000lbs MBS minimum.

So if you own some 2000lb swl rigging slings I wouldn't worry to much about going over it's rating with in reason. But when It comes to winch's they tend to using horizontal pull weights and made up numbers half the time so be careful with that stuff.

So a 2 ton winch maybe able to pull a vehicle that's up to 2 tons but I wouldn't try lifting 2 tons vertically probly could do it but your begging to break something lol.

 

[phaxtris]

Steel rigging equipment has a minimum of 1:5 safety rating textiles have 1:7

do not make this assumption, it can be anywhere from 4:1 to 7:1, on nylons/polys or steel chokers, it depends on the manufacturer, i have synthetic chokers that are 4:1, 5:1 and 6:1, not sure if i have any 7:1's, i might, but couldn't say for sure

If something is rated with the min breaking strength it is not designed for overhead lifting, more likely a tow strap or some form, you have to watch that stuff at princess auto and the like...they are often tow straps, actually im not sure that i have ever actually seen a hoisting strap there....but lots of stuff that look like hoisting straps

I own lifting slings from china, japan, and the uk, (i will explain why) they are all rated with swl or wll.....the reason i own stuff from overseas is not what you think, the price is virtually the same, i like the metric European/Metric style slings because they are color coded, purple for 1t, green for 2t, etc. and not many people have the metric stuff, so its easy to spot my gear when its mixed up with other gear.....it also doesn't blend in with the dirt, so less likely to get left behind, that said i do have a few bits of north american rigging, but when im buying i buy the metric/European style.

So a 2 ton winch maybe able to pull a vehicle that's up to 2 tons but I wouldn't try lifting 2 tons vertically probly could do it but your begging to break something lol.

are you referring to a winch or a hoist (lever/chain) ? because you are right, you shouldn't rely on a winch to hoist anything, they 100% do not have the right braking setup, and are rated at the max, with no safety factor

on another note....have you ever actually used a chain hoist or a lever hoist at or very near its rated capacity? the pull gets crazy heavy, like concerningly heavy, as in you would think your way over capacity, i checked it out in the manual on one of my jet chain falls (a 1.5t s90) when hoisting a set of stairs that were much heavier than i was told.....84lbs to rated capacity! even the 1t jet i have is 60lbs! crazy, even at 60lbs your taking turns every few minutes, then every minute. And they sure do get jammed up when you try to change direction, that brake locks up hard!

But there is a massive difference in quality from the name brand hoists to the import hoists that is for sure, the two jets i have are smooth as silk, you can rip that haul chain unloaded and 10 ft or more feet of haul chain will rip past your face before even slowing down, the 1 princess auto i haul around and the 1 that sits in a bucket at home.....well....they work....and have made thousands of hoists.....but not even in the same league

I may have a few bits of rigging, this is what i haul around, it overfills a milk crate, yes much of it looks new, because it is, i went through it just before Christmas and cut up a bunch of the worse for wear ones and replaced them. You really need pairs, and various lengths for what i end up doing, so i have a pile. The one jet is also new, it has only made maybe 50 lifts, it was to fill the hole between the 10' p-auto and the 30' jet.....those two white ones....yea not lifting straps, princess auto tow straps bought for one very specific non hoisting application....i should probably get rid of them

 

[justin1]

are you referring to a winch or a hoist (lever/chain) ? because you are right, you shouldn't rely on a winch to hoist anything, they 100% do not have the right braking setup, and are rated at the max, with no safety factor

I'm referring to atv/truck winch's and some of the 20$ cable come a long style winch's

do not make this assumption, it can be anywhere from 4:1 to 7:1, on nylons/polys or steel chokers, it depends on the manufacturer, i have synthetic chokers that are 4:1, 5:1 and 6:1, not sure if i have any 7:1's, i might, but couldn't say for sure

Good point not everything is created equal those were some of the ratios I remembered from my advanced rigging course I had to take for a job while back before they would let you touch rigging lol.

But there is a massive difference in quality from the name brand hoists to the import hoists that is for sure, the two jets i have are smooth as silk, you can rip that haul chain unloaded and 10 ft or more feet of haul chain will rip past your face before even slowing down, the 1 princess auto i haul around and the 1 that sits in a bucket at home.....well....they work....and have made thousands of hoists.....but not even in the same league

That is very true I've used some name brand stuff that the clutch's jam so bad you need to pipe the handle to get it free. I love kito and CM comealongs specially the older models without the slip clutch's you could pipe those suckers till the chain figure 8'd before you couldn't keep going and they can come with SS chain up too 40' which is excessive for a comealong. but I like running 20' chains the most and you can get replace parts for most models which is nice.

I got 2- 3/4 ton kito comealongs for home use a 1 ton kito chain hoist. I don't like bringing them to shut downs as there prime targets for being borrowed by everyone and then go missing or some back full of shit or like the 2 ton kito I had for years get arc stuck so bad had to cut the chain.

My rigging is getting sparse these days I used some of my old stuff for skidding trees and cut some moving around my welding table was stupid for not using soft edge and paid for it. 100% my fault tho I knew better. Down to maybe 6 slings I trust enough to stand under rest are for stuff i don't care about that much but still in useable condition just not site ready.

I own lifting slings from china, japan, and the uk, (i will explain why) they are all rated with swl or wll

Thats smart it is rare to see metric stuff on sites and there isn't much colour diversity from industrial suppliers here. one of the companies I worked for used to use fabric dye parts of the rigging but it's kinda a no-no same as spray painting steel slings and chains but it's still fairly common practice for contractors as long as tags are readable they can only complain so much.

Nothing wrong with Chinese stuff either as most of the rigging we use on site is made by the Chinese or from Chinese materials. But they are QC'd and have proper documentation vs maybe a to good to be true deal on AliExpress sling or dollar store stuff.

 

[Dabbler]

Just a quick addition to all the great points above. It is typical for rated equipment for industry that hauling equipment like come-alongs and winches be rated at "at least" 1.5 times the rated capacity, and the SWL is less than that, depending on industry requirements, but usually half or less. All lifting equipment not rated for human loads must yield *at least* 4 times its rated capacity, which will still be much greater than its SWL.

Under perfect conditions, in-line loading, so swaying of the load, with good ground support, a lot of lifting equipment will hold up to its rated capacity - if there is no wear, perfect support. ALWAYS ensure that you system will hold many times the weight.

Steel rigging equipment has a minimum of 1:5 safety rating textiles have 1:7 and anything used for human lifting or fall arrest is 1:10 based off 350lbs if I remember correctly or 5000lbs MBS minimum.

When I taught rescue rigging for search and rescue, from which I retired 8 years ago, there was no provision to support human loads on any steel cables. They have been considered to be unacceptable since well before I began teaching. I understand that some climbing equipment has steel cable draws, but based on my rescue experience I would never use them. One day @justin1 you and I should do coffee - I'm sure that we would both enjoy the discussion!

 

[phaxtris]

Steel cable without a shock absorber is a for sure way to break your back!

They do make quite a bit of fall arrest equipment with steel cable, but it all has some form of shock absorption

 

[Chicken lights]

I wasn't trying to correct your spelling on tonne, that was a mistake on my part l,

I honestly could care less of a guy writes metric ton, metric tonne, tonne, ton (metric) it's all the same meaning...I would actually argue that "tonne" on its own can lead to more confusion, as not everyone knows that 'tonne' means a metric ton

Although, for practical purposes up to a few ton's the extra 200lbs per Tonne doesn't make much difference, it would be unusual to lift something that weighed 1.5t-2t with rigging and hoistinf equipment that was rated at exactly 1.5t or 2t, you are normally way over capacity

I brought back a 9000 lb generator to a jobsite. They were told 4500 lb’s. Customs paperwork said 4500 kg’s. So yes if everyone used ton’s, it would standardize things somewhat. They would’ve known they needed a 5 ton machine and not a 2 ton.

 

[Tecnico]

Just a quick addition to all the great points above. It is typical for rated equipment for industry that hauling equipment like come-alongs and winches be rated at "at least" 1.5 times the rated capacity, and the SWL is less than that, depending on industry requirements, but usually half or less. All lifting equipment not rated for human loads must yield *at least* 4 times its rated capacity, which will still be much greater than its SWL.

Under perfect conditions, in-line loading, so swaying of the load, with good ground support, a lot of lifting equipment will hold up to its rated capacity - if there is no wear, perfect support. ALWAYS ensure that you system will hold many times the weight.

Steel rigging equipment has a minimum of 1:5 safety rating textiles have 1:7 and anything used for human lifting or fall arrest is 1:10 based off 350lbs if I remember correctly or 5000lbs MBS minimum.

Some very important information and good advice in there about yielding/breaking strength, rated load, manned lift and Safe Working Load (SWL), often overlooked or misunderstood by the casual user. Depending where you shop (retail/trade), the devil is hiding in the fine print.

D

 

[phaxtris]

I wonder what the wll of a seatbelt is...I have used those to pull Motos in a pinch (junkyard), apparently you can lift an entire car from the two front belts