Best place for gas?

[WilliamR]

KMS had best prices on new tanks when I bought mine. (on sale) They fill from other bottles so my 250 cu ft always quite a bit lower psi than from the big guys even when leaving it there overnight. New tank is good for ten year from date of manufacture, used is 5 year between recertification. (hydrotest)

Not sure how large of acetylene cylinders kms fills? I have only used them for small "B" bottle size, and it is direct exchange.

I wouldn't buy used unless it came with some proof of ownership or you know how to read info on neck. A lot are considered stolen rentals, get confiscated, or no one will fill them. My first set were good deal used tanks from buy and sell only to find out they were rentals when I tried to refill

 

[Janger]

All the majors want to tie you up with an expensive leasing plan and then expensive fills. It's their business model. Buy a bottle from KMS and get your fill there. A 110cu ft bottle is ~$300 and a fill is ~$70. They will fill whatever bottle as well - as long as it's certified and stamped. There is one downside the fill may not be that "full" as they use a manifold system of a bunch of regular bottles as the source of the gas not a pump to fill your bottle. You get the average pressure of the manifold but they will prorate that down on the fill cost.

Oh @WilliamR already said all this - he beat me to the Save button.

 

[Former Member]

You are in for a surprise on tank testing. There are new methods coming that will catch flaws a lot earlier.

Negative, most places want to exchange them for time reasons, it takes a solid 45min to an hr to fill a 255 from a bank

I do myne through kms here, I drop my cylinder off and come back an hour later and pick up the same cylinder, there are a few other places in Calgary that will do that for you as well

Actylene is different, that is almost always exchange, reason being they acetone levels in the tank need to be checked and possibly topped up every fill

Different locations different rules locally.

As to retest dates, there are different intervals depending on pressure and application. I forget which standard is involved. I went through this when purchasing a used scuba tank having issues of getting it filled after having it tested and passed. I search up the company that did the testing and he gave me the brief but detail course of how things work and why the issues. Additionally he is is one of the national level trainers for doing the testing of pressure vessels and explained the different processes along with the direction the industry is moving slowly for increased safety. Great thing the shop is just around the corner.

 

[PeterT]

Are these the KMS bottle & refill prices?

Gas Welding Equipment - Welding Gas - Welders

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www.kmstools.com

 

[phaxtris]

Hydro testing for welding gas cylinders isn't going anywhere, scuba tanks may be a different story

The retest interval is stamped on the cylinder and is easy to look up, usually 5 years for a welding gas pressure tank, 10 years if there is a star after the date...and they last a very very long time, I have personally seen many cylinders from the 40's still in service....if you ever see a Linde cylinder that has a square with a cross in the middle....that puppy is from Nazi Germany...and still in service

Not filling owned cylinders is purely a company policy, a money driven policy, us dot sets all those rules, and no where does it say you have to exchange cylinders

As for buying a used cylinder....if it has a company name on the collar (boc, Linde, Praxair, etc)....do not buy...that's most likely a rental tank

@PeterT yea those prices look current....new bottle prices have sure gone through the roof!

 

[PeterT]

Do you think new cylinders (example KMS) are better or worse tanks quality wise than older ones?
I think when I called OxyPro a couple years ago they used the word 'buy' but if I recall it was initial upfront fee with a full cylinder, then refill thereafter. And it had to be 'their' cylinder however they identified it. But it was not 'your' bottle, refill meant they pulled another full cylinder from inventory.

 

[PeterT]

visual sizing to refresh my own memory

 

[Susquatch]

You are in for a surprise on tank testing. There are new methods coming that will catch flaws a lot earlier.

Different locations different rules locally.

I did pressure vessel design & certification 45 years ago as a part time gig and later on my division did LPG & CNG Alt Fuel Vehicle storage tanks. We did some cool stuff with non-cylindrical tanks. That gas storage industry has always been slowly changing. But ya, water tank testing isn't going away tomorrow. But next week, who knows.

visual sizing to refresh my own memory

Can't figure out what the vertical scale is. Best I can do is 6ft6. So I put some decent fur on that character ......

 

[phaxtris]

Do you think new cylinders (example KMS) are better or worse tanks quality wise than older ones?
I think when I called OxyPro a couple years ago they used the word 'buy' but if I recall it was initial upfront fee with a full cylinder, then refill thereafter. And it had to be 'their' cylinder however they identified it. But it was not 'your' bottle, refill meant they pulled another full cylinder from inventory.

New vs old, I honestly don't think there is any difference in quality of construction, it's all regulated and built to a standard, heck they are probabaly using the same forming machines to make new ones as the ones made in the 30's and 40's

I know a few guys with oxypro cylinders, I believe the deal is that you do buy a cylinder, so no yearly lease, and no one comes looking for it if you don't ever come back, but exchange with oxy pro cylinders, and only oxy pro cylinders...kind of a trap imo. I personally don't deal with oxypro at all anymore, the owner rubs me the wrong way. The opinion of that place amongst the the rig welders and shop owners I know In calgary is pretty divided, most being negative.

 

[Proxule]

-You use considerably more oxygen, for a neutral flame oxy/act is a 1:1.2 ratio oxygen to act, oxygen propane is a 1:4.3 ratio, it is noticeable, i go through a lot more oxygen running propane than acetylene, so if you switch be prepared to be getting that o2 tank filled more often

me too

 

[PeterT]

New vs old, I honestly don't think there is any difference in quality of construction, it's all regulated and built to a standard

That's useful to know. I'm guessing something like a YYYY-MM calendar date must be stamped or tagged on a cylinder? So lets say I bought a KMS tank today & decided to sell it 15 years from now. The buyer would factor that age & 3 re-certs into price along with condition etc.? I assume there are no rules or registration requirements buying & selling used cylinders are there?

 

[PeterT]

I found my (#19) post Mar-2022 when I called OxyPro. Prices may have changed since then

Welding carts & compressed gases

Nice cart Jeff, the paint really makes it pop! I guess I should share mine, now that the disaster and general entropy in the shop is becoming less disastrous and entropic . . . This was the first thing I welded when I got the TIG 200. I didn't have space for a separate welding cart and welding...

canadianhobbymetalworkers.com

 

[phaxtris]

That's useful to know. I'm guessing something like a YYYY-MM calendar date must be stamped or tagged on a cylinder? So lets say I bought a KMS tank today & decided to sell it 15 years from now. The buyer would factor that age & 3 re-certs into price along with condition etc.? I assume there are no rules or registration requirements buying & selling used cylinders are there?

Yea it's stamped near the collar, every re-cert, similar to a propane tank, month xx and year xx, it's hard to miss

Are you asking about depreciation? I don't think the number of re-certs effects the value at all, a new one is obviously worth more because it's brand spanking new, but weather it has 2 re-certs or 5, it's worth the same imo...so long as it's up to date. I wouldnt try to sell a cylinder out of date, you would take a much bigger hit than just the new vs old depreciation

There is no paperwork involved with owning a cylinder, you just won't be able to get it filled if it's out of date

 

[Janger]

Tanks at KMS have gone up way up. 50% more !

 

[SomeGuy]

Just a note...TSC/Peavey are both Linde and Praxair cylinders now, at least their flyers are saying Linde now where before they used to be Praxair. They come up to Q size (80cf) and although people call these small, unless you're welding every single day, a Q tank will last a normal hobby guy probably a year or two. But ya, $500 for an "owned" filled Q tank isn't exactly cheap, but damn convenient.

 

[phaxtris]

The welding cylinders do go on sale regularly at kms, but ya the prices have gone way way up, there are a few guys on marketplace that sell cylinders for less, but not by much

An 80 is 400$ not on sale, not cheap, but at 120$ a year plus 110$ fills, it doesn't take to long to pay off....I got sick of getting random bills for leased cylinders and having to try to get to Praxair before 430 for a fill so i replaced all of my leases a few years back, I don't regret it one bit

 

[PeterT]

PA doesn't offer very much, I'm kind of surprised.

https://www.princessauto.com/en/welding-gas-cylinders/category/460-015-030-050

I'm not a FB-er but looks like some used possibilities, along with the caveats mentioned

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[WilliamR]

I've had as low as 1450 psi fill on 250 cu ft tank at kms. That's a lot of missing gas. They said bring it back and they would top it up as they guarantee 1750 if dropped off there overnight. I take gauge now and check to save myself the extra round trip(s).

A fire safety place hydro'd my 80 cu ft for around $40 a few years ago, they were size constrained to smaller units. Supposedly fire halls can do it if you know someone? A place in Cloverdale does hydro for around $65 plus tax on any size high pressure tank. That was most reasonable I've come across locally.

 

[Janger]

A cool forum owned tool would be a gas refrigeration system to extract nitrogen, argon, and CO2 from the atmosphere. Group build anyone? How complicated would this be?

 

[SomeGuy]

A cool forum owned tool would be a gas refrigeration system to extract nitrogen, argon, and CO2 from the atmosphere. Group build anyone? How complicated would this be?

A little out of our price range I'd imagine