Best Cutting Tools for Lathe Beginner

[ChazzC]

How painful is shipping? Do they do US Mail?

The DCxx inserts allow one to get closer to a live centre than CCxx ones so they're often more convenient when facing the ends of stock. Also, their 55-degree angle is the same as Whitworth threads.

Shipping is reasonable: looking back it was $5 - $8 for and order of inserts, and a special #11 Kit (3/8” instead of 1/2” tool holders and CCMW 2- instead of 3-) was free; however, that might have been because they weren’t going to be at Cabin Fever so I couldn’t pick it up.

I also like DCxx inserts because of the elongated shape: makes working an inside corner easier.

 

[Susquatch]

@kstrauss - in post 53, I mentioned that I have bought direct from ARWarner. The stuff always arrives fast and hassle free.

I believe it is Arthur's son who runs the business now. He will take calls and has always been good to me.

I am a particularly big fan of their double sided (internal/external) threading tool.

 

[kstrauss]

There have been several mentions of the benefits of "quality" insert holders. Perhaps I'm just undiscerning but why are some better? Obviously the insert pocket needs the proper shape and the pocket's bottom should be flat and it is nicer but not essential to have a ground finish on the holder. What else can be wrong? I ask because I've never purchased an insert holder that I found particularly bad. Amazing luck or...?

 

[gerritv]

IMO (except for MGEHR holders) the holder won't make much difference. I have a name brand one, it has more machining marks than the Asian ones I have Insert fit is what matters, esp. for repeatability. (I have most of mine entered into DRO so consistent tip to centre of Z axis is important.)

Re: ARWarner, I thought their holders looked very nicely finished but IMO pricey for what they are. OTOH the ones I bought from Busch Machine Tool at a NAMES exhibit were crap.

Re: shipping, the prices quoted by @ChazzC are in US$, and shipped within US. Not likely anywhere near that number for shipping to Canada

 

[Susquatch]

There have been several mentions of the benefits of "quality" insert holders. Perhaps I'm just undiscerning but why are some better? Obviously the insert pocket needs the proper shape and the pocket's bottom should be flat and it is nicer but not essential to have a ground finish on the holder. What else can be wrong? I ask because I've never purchased an insert holder that I found particularly bad. Amazing luck or...?

I have had similar experiences but have used a few holders that definitely performed better than others. I am also aware of the fact that others have had wildly different experiences.

First, there are holders that use anvils/shims. I have found that those holders that use shims sometimes out perform the non-shim version. It's not obvious to me why that should be but I know I'm not the only one who has noticed this.

Second, there are the NASA holders offered by a few of the tool manufacturers. (I call them NASA because they claim that they perform in ways that seem more like rocket science than machining.). These tools use internal and external structures to dampen vibration and increase rigidity. They cost like NASA tools do too. Outfits like Sandvik go to extreme measures to market their NASA tools. I've seen some videos that make me want to run out and pay 2 grand for a magic holder - NOT!

I also have a 6mm micro 100 boring bar that seems a bit magical. It certainly works better than I expected it to. I'd guess they are a bit like the NASA holders above but at least I can vouch for the fact that they do perform better than average.

I think it's reasonable to expect a certain metallurgy to work better than others in a given environment too. Certainly a high strength steel should be better than a low strength steel. And I'd expect a forged bar to act differently too.

 

[thestelster]

I believe that with external lathe turning tools, that as long as the material is hard enough to resist the insert screws from stripping the threads and that the insert pockets are dimensionally to size, there's not much difference. Having a carbide shim under the insert resists erosion and deformation of the pocket and possibly dampens vibrations slightly compared to a non-shimmed holder.

I think where tool holder material and design is most important is in boring bars. Long thin bars have to resist bending and rotational forces, so using metals with a higher Youngs modulus of Elasticity (carbide, tool steel, low carbon steel), and higher yield and tensile strength will give better results.

 

[Susquatch]

@kstrauss - I slept on your question and woke up with these thoughts.

If the holder doesn't matter, then aluminium should work just fine. If the holder doesn't matter, then why do 1" holders work better than 3/8" holders and why does tool stick out matter?

We all know the answer to these questions. Clearly, the holder matters. Your real question should be: stick out for stick out and size for size does it matter enough to justify the high cost of name brand tools?

My experience says yes - but only IF it also gets you anvils/shims too. And I also note that the off shore stuff is available with anvils too. I'd also say yes for small boring bars where the difference is rather blatant. Otherwise, I'd say it's not really worth the extra cost.


Edit - I didn't see @thestelster's note till after I posted cuz I was busy drafting. I agree with his comments too.

 

[slow-poke]

Comment from the peanut gallery (true hobbyist;-)) , those dime a dozen type AliExpress carbide inserts work really well, my hunch is the smaller your lathe, the more they help. I almost never use HSS anymore.

Beyond grinding a tool for a specific specialized task, I wonder if this grind your own HSS mentality is more I had to go through this painful process so so should you?

 

[kstrauss]

@kstrauss - I slept on your question and woke up with these thoughts.

If the holder doesn't matter, then aluminium should work just fine. If the holder doesn't matter, then why do 1" holders work better than 3/8" holders and why does tool stick out matter?

We all know the answer to these questions. Clearly, the holder matters. Your real question should be: stick out for stick out and size for size does it matter enough to justify the high cost of name brand tools?

My experience says yes - but only IF it also gets you anvils/shims too. And I also note that the off shore stuff is available with anvils too. I'd also say yes for small boring bars where the difference is rather blatant. Otherwise, I'd say it's not really worth the extra cost.


Edit - I didn't see @thestelster's note till after I posted cuz I was busy drafting. I agree with his comments too.

I've never seen anvils/shims for inserts suitable for Myford size lathes. Am I missing something?

 

[thestelster]

I've never seen anvils/shims for inserts suitable for Myford size lathes. Am I missing something?

The anvils/shims are usually available for tools 16mm(5/8") and larger.

 

[Susquatch]

I've never seen anvils/shims for inserts suitable for Myford size lathes. Am I missing something?

Your question didn't seem size specific so I gave a generic response.

I've seen 1/2" ones with anvils but normally they start at 5/8.

 

[kstrauss]

Your question didn't seem size specific so I gave a generic response.

I've seen 1/2" ones with anvils but normally they start at 5/8.

I suspected such. I use 3/8-inch and 10 mm insert holders.