Atlas lathe fully loaded - grinding attachment, taper attachment and milling attachment under $1000 5h to go Calgary

[Tom Kitta]

So what happens if two proxy bidders fell into that trap that have set the same max bid amount?

Say price is $100. Bidder X says $2000. The bid goes $101. Then bidder Y comes and puts in $2000. The bid goes $2000 and bidder X is in the lead.

 

[YYCHM]

Say price is $100. Bidder X says $2000. The bid goes $101. Then bidder Y comes and puts in $2000. The bid goes $2000 and bidder X is in the lead.

You've lost me. Why would a proxy bid $2000 on $100 when the min bid increment is $1? Wouldn't it simply increment by the min bid increment?

 

[Tom Kitta]

You've lost me. Why would a proxy bid $2000 on $100 with a min bid increment of $1? Wouldn't it simply increment by the min bid increment?

Current bid displayed is: $100.
You proxy bid $2000
Current bid displayed is $101 and you are in the lead - the $1 is increment (I think it is still $1 or may be $5 - so $105)
I come in and proxy bid $2000
Current bid displayed is $2000 and you are in the lead still - as you were the first one to drop $2000 onto.

This did happen to me just today.

I resolved it by bidding higher - in this case it would be 2025 (I think increment is 25 or 50).

 

[YYCHM]

Current bid displayed is: $100.
You proxy bid $2000
Current bid displayed is $101 and you are in the lead - the $1 is increment (I think it is still $1 or may be $5 - so $105)
I come in and proxy bid $2000
Current bid displayed is $2000 and you are in the lead still - as you were the first one to drop $2000 onto.

This did happen to me just today.

I resolved it by bidding higher - in this case it would be 2025 (I think increment is 25 or 50).

Ok, I don't understand what a proxy is then. I thought with a proxy you set a max bid and the auction software bids on your behalf.

 

[DavidR8]

@Tom Kitta so it sounds like that system is different from eBay where you put in the max bid and it increments up. If you are the high bid when the auction ends you only pay the last bid increment.
Say I put max bid at $2000. When the time ends if I'm winning at $1500 I get the item at $1500 not $2000.
Or am I totally confused?

 

[DPittman]

Man it sounds like a perfect system to milk out all it can from the buyer. I think I will continue to avoid such a racket.

 

[YYCHM]

Man it sounds like a perfect system to milk out all it can from the buyer. I think I will continue to avoid such a racket.

There is a reason why I don't participate in auctions LOL.

Another confusing thing is that the min bid increment appears to increase over time????

 

[Tom Kitta]

OK, let me try to explain again, AFAIK eBay is the same - the main difference is they do not extend the clock if there is a bid in the last 60 seconds.

Proxy bid is a bid that will automatically bid to your max - but it has to bid against something - something other then you (there was eBay scam like a decade plus where you could bid yourself up - they got sued and had to pay).

Read carefully:

Current bid displayed is $100 - bid by Joe.
You place a bid - proxy of $2000 on it - since Joe max is $100 system goes into the next available slot which is probably $105.
I place a bid, say $1000. At this point your proxy bid will bid against me to $1000 + next available slot --> current bid $1025 you winning.
Now I bid again and place a bid of $2000. Since the bid is same as your max bid BUT you were the first one, the current bid is $2000 and you are winning.

Of course if the max bid is $2000 but NO one bid more then $1500 the winner is $1525.

There is nothing mysterious about this, rather easy algorithm, nothing unfair as far as I can tell. There are few special cases and obviously testing would be needed but it should be easily less then a day's of worth to program this in. Heck some young developer may claim under 1h.

 

[DavidR8]

That makes sense to me and is exactly how eBay works.

 

[YYCHM]

Let me ask my question another way.

If there are only two proxy bidders and they have both set the exact same max bid amount and this 60 second bid extending thing is in place then: Once they both submit the bids will auto ramp up (leap frog) until their max bid amount is reached and the winner will be the guy who submitted first since the second guy's proxy won't be able to increment above the max bid amount.

Does that sound right?

 

[RobinHood]

The bid time extension only comes into play when someone bids in the last 60 seconds. It is designed to give the previous hi bidder a chance to counter (if they want).

It all came about because not everyone has fast internet. Someone with known fast internet could submit a bit at T-5 seconds, and there was nothing the previous high bidder could do about it.

 

[RobinHood]

It’s the same at live auctions: the current high bidder always has the right to counter if someone else jumps in in the last second before “sold” is announced. Otherwise it would not be fair to the bidder who has got the price as high as it currently is.

 

[YYCHM]

It’s the same at live auctions: the current high bidder always has the right to counter if someone else jumps in in the last second before “sold” is announced. Otherwise it would not be fair to the bidder who has got the price as high as it currently is.

It take this is the going once, going twice part? Does a counter bid end it then?

 

[RobinHood]

If the original bidder counters, it extends for another 60 seconds to give the “last minute bidder” another chance. It could go on for a long time. I have seen a 20 minute extension so far.

BTW, anyone can jump in on an ”extended bid”, not just the original hi bidder and the last minute bidder.

So, in theory, this could go on indefinitely. I asked Century Auctions about this very issue when they first introduced it. They could not give me a definitive answer as to how many times “extended bidding” can be extended. So I avoid any item that has gone into “overtime”.

 

[DPittman]

OK, let me try to explain again, AFAIK eBay is the same - the main difference is they do not extend the clock if there is a bid in the last 60 seconds.

Proxy bid is a bid that will automatically bid to your max - but it has to bid against something - something other then you (there was eBay scam like a decade plus where you could bid yourself up - they got sued and had to pay).

Read carefully:

Current bid displayed is $100 - bid by Joe.
You place a bid - proxy of $2000 on it - since Joe max is $100 system goes into the next available slot which is probably $105.
I place a bid, say $1000. At this point your proxy bid will bid against me to $1000 + next available slot --> current bid $1025 you winning.
Now I bid again and place a bid of $2000. Since the bid is same as your max bid BUT you were the first one, the current bid is $2000 and you are winning.

Of course if the max bid is $2000 but NO one bid more then $1500 the winner is $1525.

There is nothing mysterious about this, rather easy algorithm, nothing unfair as far as I can tell. There are few special cases and obviously testing would be needed but it should be easily less then a day's of worth to program this in. Heck some young developer may claim under 1h.

Oh that doesn't sound so bad afterall.

 

[YYCHM]

Let me ask my question another way.

If there are only two proxy bidders and they have both set the exact same max bid amount and this 60 second bid extending thing is in place then: Once they both submit the bids will auto ramp up (leap frog) until their max bid amount is reached and the winner will be the guy who submitted first since the second guy's proxy won't be able to increment above the max bid amount.

Does that sound right?

Ok, not getting my question answered here? Seems to me this 60 second bid extension mechanism will guarantee that a proxy bidder will max out his max bid amount if competing with another proxy bidder with the same max bid amount. There is no mechanism in place to stop it (time or what ever). I appreciate that a manual bid may disrupt this situation.

 

[RobinHood]

Seems to me this 60 second bid extension mechanism will guarantee that a proxy bidder will max out his max bid amount if competing with another proxy bidder with the same max bid amount. There is no mechanism in place to stop it (time or what ever).

That is how proxy bids work at any time during an auction. Does not matter at what time they are placed wrt closing time.

Look at this bidders list:


Bid increments are $5.

win-some and doormouse each proxy bid. win-some’s limit is $95. Doormouse trumps with $100. Chance bids $110 but is immediately trumped by doormous’s proxy of $115. Granpa1954 jumps in with his proxy (we don’t know what his limit is yet, because so far at $210, he is still the high bidder). First he dukes it out with doormouse - who is out at $125 (his max proxy bid; we did not know what it was until this point, but since he is out, we now know). Then come a bunch of other manual bids. Peterenko is “fishing” to see what grandpa1954’s proxy limit is. He tries him at $160, but is immediately outbid by grandpa1954’s $165 (obviously the proxy is higher). Peterenko then goes $10 higher to $175, no dice. Then one last try at $205, nope. Grandpa1954’s proxy limit is higher still. So peterenko calls it quits.

This with about 20 hours left to go.

Hope that helps.

 

[Tom Kitta]

Ok, not getting my question answered here? Seems to me this 60 second bid extension mechanism will guarantee that a proxy bidder will max out his max bid amount if competing with another proxy bidder with the same max bid amount. There is no mechanism in place to stop it (time or what ever). I appreciate that a manual bid may disrupt this situation.

60 second extension is a wonderful mechanism that eBay should adopt that makes things far more fair and avoids "sniping".

Lets give an example,

Item X is at 100 CAD and Bob places proxy bid at 200, item goes to 105 and Bob is in the lead
timer goes to 55 seconds and joe places a proxy bid at 200.
Since 200 == 200 the bid amount goes to 200 and Bob, as first bidder is in the lead still - this happens in an instant. Clock is reset to 60 seconds.

I.e. it does not matter whatever a proxy bid or regular bid is placed in the last 60 seconds or whatever it is winning or not - any bid will reset the clock to 60 seconds. 60 second rule does not change *bidding* it just resets the clock. Thus, for our bidding examples we can ignore 60 second rule as it does not do anything other then reset the clock.

On eBay rules do not change without 60 second rule regarding bidding - all happens is that people try to place 10 bids (proxy or not) in last 2 seconds - there are even companies / websites that will place a bid for you in the last second. Needless to say that is unfair as it favors these that are tech savvy or these that have faster internet connection. If I really want eBay item I do not "play" with it, I place large proxy bid on it say 30 seconds before it runs out and I see whatever someone beats me in the last second or not, from leaders position.

 

[Brent H]

I was bidding on a doll on e-bay for my wife. Every time one would come up for sale this one bidder would always win at the last second. So the one time I waited and watched. That bidder came in with the winning bid with 15 seconds to go. I sent in a huge stupid bid in the last 5 seconds - bang, it drove the other bidders proxy up to an even more ridiculous level - hahahahaha I was laughing....that bidder was on the hook for $150 for a doll worth about $20. That bidder tried to back out of the deal, which is not so favourable on e-bay. I ended up with the doll for $23

 

[Johnwa]

I did win a few items on eBay with last second bids.