Just for fun I made a list of the Pi4 LinuxCNC system costs that I play with on my bench. Really need to mount it all on a board and wire it up permanently. Anyway, also attached is the list of prices. There are some additional costs for cables that I didn't include. Often these can be sourced cheaply or even free. View attachment 38375
BTW, not trying to convince anyone. Just information about this sort of system. For this touch screen I should probably install one of the touch screen user interfaces instead of the standard AXIS one.
John,
Thanks for posting the shopping list, very useful information. If I ever decide to "come over to the other side" I should be able to continue using the existing touchscreen monitor. I rigged up a small programmable keypad for common commands and easier numeric entry, unlikely I could get that working on a PI. Also not sue if I could get Linux running on the SBC that is currently running Win-16?
I'm not an expert at installing linux systems or for that matter I've never 'built' LinuxCNC from scratch. Personally don't think I should have to do that.
However, at least with LinuxCNC what I have discovered is that adding things like your keypad isn't as hard as I thought. Although I'm not sure I'd curse my CNC area with The Starry Night.
Playing around with tool measurement code and the interface to the serial port for CANUSB to CAN bus has shown me that it's pretty easy to access the external world. In MACH3 we see that with the MODBUS connection and the ability to write custom code in VBasic. Don't know about the other 'canned' systems.
But none of that really matters unless you want or have something special or unique that isn't handled by a COTS (Commercial Off The Shelf) system.
I looked up the PrehKeyTec site. Interesting. I'm guessing it's a USB connection that looks like a keyboard to Windows.
I'm using the wired version of this unit on my LinuxCNC and
the Shuttle Express on MACH3 system.
Shuttle is a multimedia controller perfect for any editor, whether you work with video, photo or graphic design. Shuttle Pro v2 is compatible with PC and Mac.
That's correct, and now that I think about it I probably could use it with Linux, because IIRC, after programming the keypad, it just acts like a USB keyboard and regurgitates whatever key sequence was assigned to the key. If I wanted to change a key, I would need to temporarily hook it up to a PC.
How do you keep track of what button does what on that fancy ProV2?
I like that safe Z button, might need to replace the key that opens notepad with that, I think safe Z would get used way more often.
For my mill running Linux as usual I have to edit a text file (several) to link the buttons etc to actions or inputs/outputs. Either for the MPG I have on it or for the ShuttleExpress which I have set up on the Raspberry Pi4 system. Then you just remember what button does what.
For MACH3 it's easy but you still have to remember what button does what because it's a membrane keypad with numbers on.
Here's the shuttle Pro and Express taken directly from my CNC Router MACH3. You check off which version and then fill in those fields.
The problem is that in Linux generally unless you are into using Lazarus Free Pascal (like Delphi Pascal on windows) this is very difficult to do and requires multiple programs. And since lately so many people 'hate' Pascal and love Python command line programs remain the norm.
I was running my Syil Ex250 this Sunday with mach3 controller. For 2 axis turning it seems pretty good. If I could find a perfect post for fusion360 to mach3 turn I would be even happier. I haven't found a post for fusion that will turn a ball properly yet.
I was running my Syil Ex250 this Sunday with mach3 controller. For 2 axis turning it seems pretty good. If I could find a perfect post for fusion360 to mach3 turn I would be even happier. I haven't found a post for fusion that will turn a ball properly yet.
I finally managed to get the gmoccapy touch screen interface running on the Raspberry Pi4 LinuxCNC system. Had to use the PNCconf program to create a new installation since for some reason just changing the user interface to gmoccapy from axis didn't work. Not sure why yet. We're working on that.
In either case at least now I can try the touch screen stuff. This version, compared to the stock axis interface is more like MACH3. Lots of features. Now if I could only figure out how to load a file. That part, for me, isn't intuitively obvious.
Anway in reality I'd have it fill the entire 1920x1080 LCD touch screen but then that pyvcp dialog created for an axis panel doesn't appear to be part of the gmoccapy screen and I'm pretty sure I specified 4 axis but I only see 3.
Just a slight diversion from the MACH discussion again. Today I put together a block diagram of the parts in message #19 in this thread. I think I may also build a USB 3.0 hub into this since I'm now using all 4 USB ports on the Pi4. I also included a BlueTooth Keyboard/mouse in the system since working outside of the touch screen without that is tedious since my fingers are much larger than the small icons and check boxes.
Now time to mount all the parts onto a single panel along with the terminal strips for power distribution. Then try and get the rest of the gmoccapy screen stuff working. Apparently it's possible to have a keyboard pop up.
I have the Acorn along with the breakout board for Clearpath from CNC4PC.
Think plug and play. Seriously plug and play it is the was easy to set up and run. Spent more time figuring out how to optimize the G-code created by Intercon (Centriods software).
Acorn is rock solid in terms of performance. This is a commercial CNC grade not a DYI base system.
Hobbiest on limited budget, there are cheaper solutions, looking for production without a headaches, its a no brainer.
I have the Acorn along with the breakout board for Clearpath from CNC4PC.
Think plug and play. Seriously plug and play it is the was easy to set up and run. Spent more time figuring out how to optimize the G-code created by Intercon (Centriods software).
Acorn is rock solid in terms of performance. This is a commercial CNC grade not a DYI base system.
Hobbiest on limited budget, there are cheaper solutions, looking for production without a headaches, its a no brainer.
As stated below in the document, the Centroid is just a cape for a BeagleBone. Likely they are still using Linux under the covers for that and then interfacing to that with WIN-10. OTOH, Texas Instruments, the maker of the Beagle processor does offer all the details for writing embedded code for the Beagle.
I'll admit I haven't moved from MACH3 for the CNC router. MACH3 wasn't adequate for my mill adventure. Machine Kit running directly on the Beaglebone worked but the cape was set up for normally open limit switches which means if a wire broke you wouldn't know it until it rammed into the end stop.
As stated below in the document, the Centroid is just a cape for a BeagleBone. Likely they are still using Linux under the covers for that and then interfacing to that with WIN-10. OTOH, Texas Instruments, the maker of the Beagle processor does offer all the details for writing embedded code for the Beagle.
I'll admit I haven't moved from MACH3 for the CNC router. MACH3 wasn't adequate for my mill adventure. Machine Kit running directly on the Beaglebone worked but the cape was set up for normally open limit switches which means if a wire broke you wouldn't know it until it rammed into the end stop.
That may be, for me, it functions like a controller for CNC. I'm not into the tweaking and the enjoyment of building the CNC, just that it works without having to put any extra effort into it than required. Plug and Play makes it quick and easy. Having a premade interface that functions from the get go without having to learn a new operating system (beside WIN updates) and is robust enough to run in production without baby sitting falls under that Plug and Play.
For those that love the adventure of tweaking, have at it, but my time is more valuable in other endeavors and adventures.
That may be, for me, it functions like a controller for CNC. I'm not into the tweaking and the enjoyment of building the CNC, just that it works without having to put any extra effort into it than required. Plug and Play makes it quick and easy. Having a premade interface that functions from the get go without having to learn a new operating system (beside WIN updates) and is robust enough to run in production without baby sitting falls under that Plug and Play.
For those that love the adventure of tweaking, have at it, but my time is more valuable in other endeavors and adventures.
Exactly which is why MACH3, a free PC along with my USB Smoothstepper is still the CNC router solution for me. No restrictions on code or monitor size. If I did want to upgrade it I couldn't use the smoothstepper anymore so at that point I would have to think about costs and there $109 for the MESA board is all it would cost to change. Software free with unlimited G-Code size, interfaces to existing monitor, PC, ShuttleExpress, 4 axis motor drivers.
So yes, it's more work to get a LinuxCNC system up and running but way cheaper with surplus non-touch screen monitors smaller than 1920x1080 and PCs along with $4.99 Break Out Boards from China. The cost for the motors, drivers, pulleys etc. remains the same no matter what system is chosen.
I imagine with Centroid you don't really have to pay $660 for a tool length sensor but can use one from Aliexpress for $35?
And I couldn't find it on their web page. Are the limit switches wired Normally Open or Normally Closed?
Exactly which is why MACH3, a free PC along with my USB Smoothstepper is still the CNC router solution for me. No restrictions on code or monitor size. If I did want to upgrade it I couldn't use the smoothstepper anymore so at that point I would have to think about costs and there $109 for the MESA board is all it would cost to change. Software free with unlimited G-Code size, interfaces to existing monitor, PC, ShuttleExpress, 4 axis motor drivers.
So yes, it's more work to get a LinuxCNC system up and running but way cheaper with surplus non-touch screen monitors smaller than 1920x1080 and PCs along with $4.99 Break Out Boards from China. The cost for the motors, drivers, pulleys etc. remains the same no matter what system is chosen.
I imagine with Centroid you don't really have to pay $660 for a tool length sensor but can use one from Aliexpress for $35?
And I couldn't find it on their web page. Are the limit switches wired Normally Open or Normally Closed?
Can be wired either way, you decide in the software. Nice thing is you much touch your limits at initial startup of the machine so it is almost impossible to hit the limit once done initially (ie turn on).
So far no probe, manual touch off at start of set up.
Can be wired either way, you decide in the software. Nice thing is you much touch your limits at initial startup of the machine so it is almost impossible to hit the limit once done initially (ie turn on).
So far no probe, manual touch off at start of set up.
That's great. The Cape for the Beagle from Xylotex which was menu driven for setup had only one flaw. The switches could only be N.O. so a broken wire to the switch wouldn't be detected. Head for home to find the switch and it could run into the end stop.
Sad really because the system cost $35 for the Beagle, $25 for the cap, $20 for the break out board plus surplus monitor, keyboard and mouse for $20. So for $100 I had a complete working CNC. This video is from before the X axis motor was mounted.
The attached picture has tags over each item. Way behind the mill is the other power supply for the knee stepper motor. Originally I was going to use DC servos for all three axis. I think it's still possible to build a mill this cheaply but @Degen is dead on when it does require a certain element of work and support. The sad thing about the Beagle and MachineKit is that Machine kit fell off the edge as far as support and the BeagleBone Black HDMI output leaves a lot to be desired. OTOH, it didn't require a separate stepping module or a WIN-10 PC as a user interface.
The stepping module is built in, what is third party is the plug and play interface for Clearpath SDSK servos.
One fault that I would likely call the biggest one is most laptops (ie 2 in 1's) do not have Ethernet ports and USB dongles do require a bit of work to be functional and stable. Centroid needs to up the game and make it a USB interface.
Beyond that this thing rocks.
@jcdammeyer if you're ever in TO contact me for a visit.
The stepping module is built in, what is third party is the plug and play interface for Clearpath SDSK servos.
One fault that I would likely call the biggest one is most laptops (ie 2 in 1's) do not have Ethernet ports and USB dongles do require a bit of work to be functional and stable. Centroid needs to up the game and make it a USB interface.
Beyond that this thing rocks.
@jcdammeyer if you're ever in TO contact me for a visit.
The Smoothstepper for MACH3 originally came out as USB based (which is what I have). They found that with newer versions of Windows like WIN-10 that USB was too erratic for motion control which is why they brought out the ETHERNET SmoothStepper and that's what's used for MACH4. There may be other Ethernet or USB based interfaces for MACH4. I never liked their licensing scheme so I stopped with MACH3. I still have an old PC that is running MACH2.
I don't think MESA made any USB connectors either. They also use Ethernet for the connection to the PC. The ASIC on their boards does all the hardware stepping and encoder interface.
And of course with laptops you are right. Many of the inexpensive ones don't have a hardware Ethernet port at all. My HP ZBook does and it has WiFi. The Raspberry Pi4 also has Ethernet and WiFi so I run Ethernet out to the MESA 7i92H and use WiFi for internet access. I'm also running SAMBA on the Pi4 so from upstairs in front of the TV on my laptop I can muck with the files on the Pi4 down in my office.
I can also log in with puTTY as a console user. I suppose I could also do the equivalent of remote desktop (VNC I think) but that defeats the purpose of mucking with an LCD touch screen.
The last time I was in Toronto we were en-route to a Stabyhoun dog gathering in Pennsylvania. Since my wife had never been to Niagara Falls we also took a side trip there. The attendant in the go kart booth watched the dog while we raced around the track. Great fun.
I had been to Niagara Falls way back when IBM sent me on a one week training course at head office. That trip is a faint memory now.
Clearpaths configuration is via USB and additional they can be directly controlled via usb in stand alone applications.
The statement that usb is too erratic is concerning as it is the usb port that is driving the ethernet dongle to feed the data to the Acorn.
Think that on my main computer I am driving 2 screens, running Ethernet, DVD, External Drive(s), usb security key, several usb stick memories all from on usb port. Don't think thru put is an issue.
I think it more of adding a proper usb interface on the board issue, likely related to cost.
I used Mach 3 for a few years and had some negative experiences. I had a manufacturer supplied breakout board and also an ethernet Smooth Stepper in the system. Issues with Mach 3 included 1) Axis runaways 2) Control would forget to apply tool length offsets 3) Control would randomly stop during machining 4) Axis would suddenly move off commanded by .02" to .03". 4) Machine would plain forget where it is and have to be rehomed. Weirdest thing was I was doing a part run of 20 parts. Make part insert new blank and hit cycle start. About half way through the machine went to part 0-0-0 then paused. Lifted to safe Z moved over 6 inches then tried to make the part there. One mach 3 machine worked ok mostly. It was running on an ancient computer and I do think Mach 3 is less error prone on old machines. Might be that some hardware configurations are just bad. If you are starting out Mach 3 is a good cheap way to start especially if you don't mind tinkering to get things 100% right.
I switched to Centroid Acorns. I could not be happier with them. They just work. No issues. I have installed 3 of them. The main reason I went with Centroid is that they make controls that are also suitable for bigger industrial controls. When I hit cycle start I know the control will always do what it was told to do.
My MACH3 system has been very reliable with the exception of my Shuttle Express appearing to not always return to no movement. Otehrwise the USB interface and the system has worked well. Even the probing for work height with a clip lead on the tool bit hasn't given problems.
I can't say the same for my LinuxCNC probing when I loaded a different module that had a bug and sent the probe crashing at 180ipm into a 1-2-3 block. But that was my fault for being careless with new code.
The screen for probing is really nice. Does all the stuff and more that I used to do with my Shumatech DRO and a probe.
