Anvil...Forge...

[Mike S]

It is, but this month it's at a private house, not really the best time to take new members or guests. I'll post the details for January's when it comes around, please remind me if I don't.



Those little 24 pounders are good for really tiny projects, but they lack the mass for any kind of real forgework, they're more of a jeweler's tool really. You want to have at least 100 pounds of steel for anything significant.

Farrier's anvils are great for what they are, but they are a compromise - they have to be light enough to haul out of the truck a couple times per day but heavy enough to do some serious work on shoes. Still, they have some neat features, like the bending bars on the side. The horns aren't round though, and that will limit what you can do with them for general forgework.


If I had an enormous shop, I would probably get one for a second workstation / portable anvil for moving around to where I needed it.

 

[Jwest7788]

I have acess to an unlimited amount of railway track. Please don't ask how. You would have to pay me to cut it because there is nothing I want to do less than cutting 100lb/foot rail but I'll do it for the cost of my time.

You're welcome to my power hacksaw if you end up wanting to double your working rate.

 

[Jwest7788]

I'm not sure of the availability of coal, but it is mined heavily in the Crowsnest... never know you might be able to find a seam close to the surface and bring a bucket or two home....

My time to shine. My parents have a place in the pass, I've been down there about a weekend a month for over a decade.

Actually the whole area south of Coleman is what appears to be coal that was too tiny to sell.

Walk near the river, you'll be standing on coal. Alternatively, go across, south of the river, and walk to here:
https://www.google.ca/maps/dir//49.6308625,-114.5090523/@49.6307666,-114.5094716,382m/data=!3m1!1e3

And you'll be at the (now sealed) entrance to one of the out of commission mines. The whole area is basically coal chunks, coal dust, and other stuff that was mined out with the coal. (Keep in mind the really big chunks of coal sold when the mine was opened, but the area is black with the mining materials that came out of the ground, but didn't sell. (Not sure if too tiny, or quality related)
Everywhere within the arrows here, is open black coal dust+chunks. http://screencast.com/t/ZDChQgCEWFr

I've never actually tried to burn it. But if someone wants I can grab a bucket full when I am down there in January.



Interestingly, if you're ever in the area: https://www.google.ca/maps/dir//49.6325475,-114.5039906/@49.6316519,-114.5092634,571m/data=!3m1!1e3
This is the old coke ovens built into a hill, that the mining operation used to process the coal into coke.

And this is the old coal elevator thing, for loading the coke and coal onto trains:
https://www.google.ca/maps/dir//49.6334329,-114.5084682/@49.6316519,-114.5092634,571m/data=!3m1!1e3

 

[Mike S]

Keep in mind, not all coal is created equally. Some of it is really high in sulphur which will significantly affect the iron when you work it. Anyone know the chemical composition of the Crowsnest valley area? Anthracite / bituminous? It's probably available somewhere online.

Leftover coke would be fine, since it's had all the volatiles burnt (well, not exactly burnt, sublimated, but you know what I mean) out of it. Coke burns really hot when you're on the air though, keep a very close eye on your iron. Also you will need a supplemental air supply, like a small inline fan or something, to keep the coke from going out between active heats if you're stopping for a few minutes at a time.


Charcoal is a decent alternative. It's pricy, since you have to buy the nice 'lump' charcoal instead of the briquettes (they have binding agents and gross steel-ruining fillers) but it has the advantage of theoretically being carbon neutral, or at least not nearly as bad as coal, so long as it comes from properly managed forests and not clear-cut tree mining operations. You can always use charcoal in a coal forge, but the reverse isn't always true.

Nice Pennsylvania blacksmithing coal sure is nice to work steel with though. Just don't breathe the smoke fumes, especially when you light it.

 

[Matt_b_m]

Mike, that's a great tidbit of information on coal and its contents, I never thought about it having an affect on iron other than making a ton of heat. I've personally never done anything with a forge, but the other day I was given two rear leaf spring packs from a 1953 GMC grain truck. No plans yet, but I they will sit in the pile of things I'm sure we all have waiting for the day to come along.

 

[Mike S]

Yeah, the coal used to smelt ore has a huge impact on the quality of the end product, same deal when it's used to reshape it. I like to think iron is a metal of 'loose morality,' it really picks up the properties of the gangs of compounds it hangs out with.

Canada used to sell boatloads of metallurgical grade coal to Japan and China (maybe we still do, I'm not sure), ours was either really good or just hit that price/quality envelope perfectly.


Definitely hang on to those springs. Look up a "Smithin Magician" and copy the design, the springs you have will make fantastic dies for it. They're incredibly useful hardy or leg vise tools to have around.

 

[Matt_b_m]

Thanks again Mike!

 

[Janger]

Anvils again... I was reading about post anvils, home made, using a top of 4140 then heat treated. I have some 2" thick 4140 5" diameter stock that @Geoff and I traded. I think I could heat treat that into a hard layer and then weld it to a post of some 5" hot roll. @Jwest7788 is your kiln up to running 1525F for two hours to do a heat hardness treatment, and then an hour or so at 400F for some tempering?

Rough sketch attached. This is kind of what I had in mind. Hardie hole and pritchle hole kind of welded on. One side cut square. The top 2" or so would be the 4140 heat treated top. Needs a horn. Not sure how to do that. Railroad track is a good idea @Johnwa but I don't know where to get some other than to beg @Alexander again to do the thing he hates most, cutting rail road track!

 

[Johnwa]

Lots of DIY anvils on instructables. This is one of the better ones
http://www.instructables.com/id/Railroad-Track-Anvil/

 

[Jwest7788]

Anvils again... I was reading about post anvils, home made, using a top of 4140 then heat treated. I have some 2" thick 4140 5" diameter stock that @Geoff and I traded. I think I could heat treat that into a hard layer and then weld it to a post of some 5" hot roll. @Jwest7788 is your kiln up to running 1525F for two hours to do a heat hardness treatment, and then an hour or so at 400F for some tempering?

Rough sketch attached. This is kind of what I had in mind. Hardie hole and pritchle hole kind of welded on. One side cut square. The top 2" or so would be the 4140 heat treated top. Needs a horn. Not sure how to do that. Railroad track is a good idea @Johnwa but I don't know where to get some other than to beg @Alexander again to do the thing he hates most, cutting rail road track!

yep, Kiln is a go on my end. It takes forever to heat to that temp, but shouldn't be an issue. I've worked out all the final issues I was having, just need to do a final install with replacement parts. Will have it done before the weekend likely.
--> I'm planning on setting up a propane attachment to the Kiln to get it up to temp faster, as the coils take along time to heat up. But that's a conversation for a different thread.

You're welcome to use my powered hacksaw too, it should work through railroad line pretty well. (Though I've never tried, admittedly.)

Here's the pic @Janger posted too, in a different format just in case.

 

[Craig Monnin]

I have acess to an unlimited amount of railway track. Please don't ask how. You would have to pay me to cut it because there is nothing I want to do less than cutting 100lb/foot rail but I'll do it for the cost of my time.

Would you happen to have any of that track left?

 

[Dogpounder]

I have a Nimba Avil just like Mike S. They are as good as they get. Don't buy an antique for the price of new, they just not worth it and they are hard to work on as they are all dinged up and chipped etc.

I built a gas forge from an old Freon cylinder, lined with refractory batting and a fire brick base. I use a atmospheric gas nozzle that I built using a .035 tip for a MIG welder as the orifice and a Stainless nozzle, get just hot enough to forge mild steel. Just in the process of getting a coal forge put together that I got in the states last summer, it cost 400 USD for a fire pot stand and blower. Pretty good deal I thought.

 

[Tom O]

Look up Princess auto online and punch in anvils, there seems to be a good selection of larger anvils they should be able to bring them in.

 

[Jwest7788]

Well, the other option is to get a torch and drive around until you see a train..

Dont worry, in 1944 the United States National Defense Resources Committee showed that you can safely take 36" of train rail and the trains will be fine.

Skip to 2:45

Cutting torch is the best solution, for sure.

(Just kidding obviously, and if CSIS is doing their job right, I just accidentally added myself to a watch list by searching for this video)

 

[Janger]

Princess auto does have a new product, a forged anvil, the other ones are cast probably and likely no good. it's not super expensive. Not sure about the quality. There is a blacksmith group in Alberta - I'd like to find those guys. I did make a 'mini' anvil out of a thick piece of 4130 and @Jwest7788 and I attempted to heat treat it for hardness. It came out somewhat hard - not as hard as my anvil though. @Bofobo also has made a nice forge - I've been meaning to try to go see it if he's willing to show it off. Maybe you'd give us a demo @Bofobo ?

 

[Bofobo]

My time to shine. My parents have a place in the pass, I've been down there about a weekend a month for over a decade.

Actually the whole area south of Coleman is what appears to be coal that was too tiny to sell.

Walk near the river, you'll be standing on coal. Alternatively, go across, south of the river, and walk to here:
https://www.google.ca/maps/dir//49.6308625,-114.5090523/@49.6307666,-114.5094716,382m/data=!3m1!1e3

And you'll be at the (now sealed) entrance to one of the out of commission mines. The whole area is basically coal chunks, coal dust, and other stuff that was mined out with the coal. (Keep in mind the really big chunks of coal sold when the mine was opened, but the area is black with the mining materials that came out of the ground, but didn't sell. (Not sure if too tiny, or quality related)
Everywhere within the arrows here, is open black coal dust+chunks. http://screencast.com/t/ZDChQgCEWFr

I've never actually tried to burn it. But if someone wants I can grab a bucket full when I am down there in January.



Interestingly, if you're ever in the area: https://www.google.ca/maps/dir//49.6325475,-114.5039906/@49.6316519,-114.5092634,571m/data=!3m1!1e3
This is the old coke ovens built into a hill, that the mining operation used to process the coal into coke.

And this is the old coal elevator thing, for loading the coke and coal onto trains:
https://www.google.ca/maps/dir//49.6334329,-114.5084682/@49.6316519,-114.5092634,571m/data=!3m1!1e3

I would love to try this bucket o coal for you! I've been searching around the old fam farm but access to the old mine is private land with a gate (who's key holder works in the patch so not usually around when I am) and hauling a bag of coal or ideally more than one, over several km to get it up hill is not on my to do list lol.

 

[Jwest7788]

I would love to try this bucket o coal for you! I've been searching around the old fam farm but access to the old mine is private land with a gate (who's key holder works in the patch so not usually around when I am) and hauling a bag of coal or ideally more than one, over several km to get it up hill is not on my to do list lol.

Right on, we can definitely coordinate. I should be down within the next month or so. Keep in mind, there aren't many big chunks, it's mostly pebble sized stuff and dust. I've never taken a shovel to it though, so maybe some larger stuff underneath. (If that's the case i'll spend some time and get larger chunks, but I am not 100% that it will be)

Just thinking, the ground may be frozen too, will play it by ear, haha.

Would be cool to find that it's actually useful, as well as abundant. Not sure how the locals would like us filling a truck bed, though we definitely could... lol.

JW

 

[Bofobo]

To be honest it could be dust, if it's coal It will work (powdered coal is used in power production) a bit of water and some practice is all one would need. Chunk coal is ok to but the idea is to create a pizza oven basically.

 

[Tom O]

Hmmm I bought this last september hopefully plumbed in this year, some coal dust to mix into the sand to try casting iron would be nice.

 

[Bofobo]

Hmmm I bought this last september hopefully plumbed in this year, some coal dust to mix into the sand to try casting iron would be nice.
View attachment 1400

It's a nice stove ya got tom, Mine is a little less ornate but "farm fresh" from the old family chicken coup. It sure would be neat to see it live again as well