Admirable Nelson (Standard Modern Utilathe 10 LD)

[That-Guy]

Just noticed this in the photo you posted: the oil scraper edges should be parallel to and touch the face of the bull gear. Can’t tell what material the scraper is (looks like steel?), but both my SM1340 and the SM1120 have brass oil scrapers. Perhaps in older SMs they used a different material / set-up?

I never noticed!!!!!! Welp, I guess I'm poppin' the top on my new SM tonight to make sure that one is alright! THANK YOU! You definitely are correct. They should be parallel, but on all these vintage SM's they are a steel oil grabber. I've been into a few of these headstocks and so far have not found one that touches, they all have about 0.025" to 0.040" clearance.

 

[RobinHood]

The purpose of the part is to “scrape” oil off the face of the bull gear and feed it to the main (front) spindle bearing for lubrication. It works both in FWD and REV spindle direction. The oil level (if properly maintained in the HS) is such that the bull gear is always dipping through the oil as it rotates. The oil gets picked up by not only the teeth of the gear, but also by both front and rear faces. The teeth bring the oil to the bull gear driver and it’s bearings (these are heavily loaded). The scraper needs to touch the front face of the BG to get a good amount of oil off of it to feed the main spindle bearing.

The thickness of the oil film depends on both the oil viscosity and its temperature. I believe a 30 weight machine oil is specified in the manual. When the oil is cold (room temp say), the oil film is quite substantial and as long as the scraper is close to the face, some oil will make it to the bearing. As the oil heats up, the film thickness decreases substantially and a scraper that is not touching will not get enough oil off the face to properly lube the main bearing, causing it heat up very quickly.

So, as I stated above, I don’t know why your scraper is steel. Steel is harder than the CI of the BG. So it would wear the face if it touches. But if it does not touch (or is at least very close), the oil flow is dramatically reduced to the bearing.

I wonder if at some point the bronze scraper was replaced (because it wore out?) and the only material they had was steel?

The scraper spacing is adjustable by undoing a set screw under HS cover gasket.

Here are some pictures of what it looks like in my SM1120.

 

[RobinHood]

They should be parallel, but on all these vintage SM's they are a steel oil grabber. I've been into a few of these headstocks and so far have not found one that touches, they all have about 0.025" to 0.040" clearance.

Interesting…

There must have been a design change in the late ‘70s or early ‘80s to the bronze scrapers.

Both my SMs are from that era (as confirmed by SM after I inquired and gave them the serial number).

Observation showed that the scraper needed to pretty much touch the face of the BG for warm oil to make it to the bearing. There was some splash lub going on, but not enough to keep the main bearing from heating up.

 

[That-Guy]

Interesting…

There must have been a design change in the late ‘70s or early ‘80s to the bronze scrapers.

Both my SMs are from that era (as confirmed by SM after I inquired and gave them the serial number).

Observation showed that the scraper needed to pretty much touch the face of the BG for warm oil to make it to the bearing. There was some splash lub going on, but not enough to keep the main bearing from heating up.

This is mine, with the 0.0020" gap, used lockwire since my feelers got legs apparently. I definitely like the brass/bronze one better!!! While I get that the oil will thin with heat, it should not be THAT thin as to pose an issue for a gap like this. Turbine engines have gaps that oil transfers over, and let me tell you..... I've got scars to prove how hot that oil gets!!!! lol. Please ignore the terrible gasket.... the lid is bent a bit from prior owners and its the only way to stop the oil falling out when it runs.

Making My Bed

After a few weeks I got the all major parts removed from the lathe and got it stripped back to the bed, the paint isn't in really bad condition it was just CAKED in grease(which I consider the enemy) I then got the head stock bull bear removed and packaged up for sending off to the machine shop also started on the machine table then ran out of rags and degreaser.

It was also just now then I was messing around with the apron gears then I found the piece of metal that acted as the lock out on the half nut and the power feed and also found out that I needed at least one new cam lock stud

Things that aren't working currently
3 Jaw Chuck ( jaws mismatched and seized somehow) Fixedish waiting for the results
Half nut doesn't want to engage (ok so I goofed and did not know about the lockout, don't judge me) Found the problem lol
quick change gearbox selector doesn't want to move sorted
Busted Cross feed nut
Tailstock clamp missing (to clamp to the bed)
Bull Gear Tooth Chipped
Motor is Dead Fixed
Cam Lock Stud Bent

Does the Utililathe not have the oil scraper? I didn't notice it in your photos. Would any parts be interchangeable from the 2000 series???

 

[Cryoine]

This is mine, with the 0.0020" gap, used lockwire since my feelers got legs apparently. I definitely like the brass/bronze one better!!! While I get that the oil will thin with heat, it should not be THAT thin as to pose an issue for a gap like this. Turbine engines have gaps that oil transfers over, and let me tell you..... I've got scars to prove how hot that oil gets!!!! lol. Please ignore the terrible gasket.... the lid is bent a bit from prior owners and its the only way to stop the oil falling out when it runs.
View attachment 26374

Does the Utililathe not have the oil scraper? I didn't notice it in your photos. Would any parts be interchangeable from the 2000 series???

I was actually looking at it and saying the same thing, but between mine and a few others headstocks that i have seen inside they don't carry that oil scraper. also there is nothing like that in the parts list. It is sorta confusing how they name the series of these machines but the utilathe 10 shares some parts with the utilathe 12 not so much with the 9 or 11

 

[Cryoine]

This is mine, with the 0.0020" gap, used lockwire since my feelers got legs apparently. I definitely like the brass/bronze one better!!! While I get that the oil will thin with heat, it should not be THAT thin as to pose an issue for a gap like this. Turbine engines have gaps that oil transfers over, and let me tell you..... I've got scars to prove how hot that oil gets!!!! lol. Please ignore the terrible gasket.... the lid is bent a bit from prior owners and its the only way to stop the oil falling out when it runs.
View attachment 26374

Does the Utililathe not have the oil scraper? I didn't notice it in your photos. Would any parts be interchangeable from the 2000 series???

I can confirm that the utilathe10 carries no scraper


This is facing the front spindle bearing from inside the head stock

 

[RobinHood]

Looks like we found one of the differences between the Utilathes and the (upgraded?) series 2000 machines (besides the more square look).