3D Scanning large Boats

[Matt-Aburg]

For new clients I typically used letter of intent to purchase services... It was the foundation we built relationship on. It eliminated most uncertainties and set expectations.

But most importantly, the letter of intent made it clear, NO WORK PRODUCT DELIVERED WITHOUT PAYMENT IN FULL UPON DELIVERY.

and in most cases that meant payment via credit card

I will give a written quote with a purchase order that must be signed before starting. All expectation must be in writing. For example, he changed the tolerance expectations from 1/16 to 1/32. Delivery time and dollars all agreed to up front. In mold industry, they require 1/3 down, 1/3 at first tryout and 1/3 after shipping. Chinese toolmakers withhold the tool until paid in full.

For me, I will show pictures, make PowerPoints, have meetings. but no data until paid in full. I have known this person since 1992. He was my boss for almost 10 years. Now he is retired from molds as am I. There is great potential. I have already invested in the equipment and it is paid for. I need to find the proper software. He does not want 20K software that I know... I think the Autodesk product. or a combination of different software's, (one for design, and one for CNC). I also own a seat of Mastercam Mill level 1, so can provide programming services legitimately.

When the PowerPoint is ready, we will have to have a meeting to discuss all aspects of the work or job opportunity.

 

[Matt-Aburg]

I’m very interested in your opinion of going from scan to solid model in Fusion… I’ve become quite proficient at solid modelling, but struggle with free-form surfaces.

I will be going forward with this benchmark. My first real attempt at migration to a new platform in over 10 years. I was approved as a startup. This gives me access to more features.

 

[PeterT]

The crazy thing is with SW Maker (the $99 cloud version) they include Xshape which is the powerful D-sub app. Kicker #1 is a regular full license seat does not get this included presently so WTF? Kicker #2, the 0.005mm fine print - can you actually export the file into any format that could be used for commercial purposes (cnc code). I would guess probably not but that's just me interpolating what others have claimes regarding regular files. I don't know if Fusion has this same Dsub engine, worse, better.. you'd have to dig.

The technology is cool. I've seen this back in my Rhino days. It may even originate from McNeal, not sure. Example video - how to make a neat p*sser for your next boat LOL

 

[Matt-Aburg]

The crazy thing is with SW Maker (the $99 cloud version) they include Xshape which is the powerful D-sub app. Kicker #1 is a regular full license seat does not get this included presently so WTF? Kicker #2, the 0.005mm fine print - can you actually export the file into any format that could be used for commercial purposes (cnc code). I would guess probably not but that's just me interpolating what others have claimes regarding regular files. I don't know if Fusion has this same Dsub engine, worse, better.. you'd have to dig.

The technology is cool. I've seen this back in my Rhino days. It may even originate from McNeal, not sure. Example video - how to make a neat p*sser for your next boat LOL

Here is similar tools in Fusion. This is why I want to benchmark it. The Solid works cloud product looks like a candidate also.

 

[Matt-Aburg]

Fusion for automatic surfacing of scans sucks. Problems handling scans over 5-10000 triangles. If I reduce the scans, they lose accuracy. I finally got it to work at about 300k but looks at the shit it made... I have spent about 8 hours and so far this is what it came up with. I would have been faster just to surface it manually, and it would be correct. I have not looked at other features so far, but the ribbon bars are very sparse compared to what I am used to. I said before... going from a Maserati to Chevette would be impossible. The problem is the Chevette is actually more like walking backwards, barefoot, blindfolded, over hot coals.

 

[TorontoBuilder]

Fusion for automatic surfacing of scans sucks. Problems handling scans over 5-10000 triangles. If I reduce the scans, they lose accuracy. I finally got it to work at about 300k but looks at the shit it made... I have spent about 8 hours and so far this is what it came up with. I would have been faster just to surface it manually, and it would be correct. I have not looked at other features so far, but the ribbon bars are very sparse compared to what I am used to. I said before... going from a Maserati to Chevette would be impossible. The problem is the Chevette is actually more like walking backwards, barefoot, blindfolded, over hot coals.

that sucks

 

[PeterT]

I guess I'm not shocked but good that you tried. Maybe another example of 'limits' - what works for a desk gnome of 'who cares' dimensional accuracy may not work in the real world of more demanding complexity/resolution. I like the left one, kind of artsy stained glass effect. The right one is curious - why it thought a beach ball might be good geometry to insert LOL. Maybe the next software upgrade will incorporate ChatGPT4 interface - the boat floats but the table doesn't need a buoy LOL

 

[Matt-Aburg]

I guess I'm not shocked but good that you tried. Maybe another example of 'limits' - what works for a desk gnome of 'who cares' dimensional accuracy may not work in the real world of more demanding complexity/resolution. I like the left one, kind of artsy stained glass effect. The right one is curious - why it thought a beach ball might be good geometry to insert LOL. Maybe the next software upgrade will incorporate ChatGPT4 interface - the boat floats but the table doesn't need a buoy LOL

For simple things drawn in a CAD program, it worked 100 %, Total match. I have demonstrated this below. Note the multicolor of the are regions that it uses to make the surfaces. I am going to benchmark simplifying the scan data by maybe only doing parts of it, for example the floor... and so on. I will also merge the regions that belong together. I will not be spending much more time before trying tools meant for this like Design X...

 

[StevSmar]

Fusion for automatic surfacing of scans sucks.

Sorry to hear that. I was wondering how well it would handle large numbers of polygons.

In my solid modelling Fusion starts to struggle once I hit maybe 50 components in an assembly.

 

[Matt-Aburg]

I have rolled the dice. I prepared a PowerPoint that lays it on the line. I gave a cost estimate and timing based on the free sample scan. I have made it clear on terms to transfer data and that a written Purchase Order with all conditions set out must be signed off on. It is now out of my hands. Hopefully I win the right to do the work. I have made it clear that I do not work for free.

See below my PowerPoint with name removed of the Marina.

 

[MustangGT]

I have just picked up a new customer. My jobs will be all scanning and reverse engineering for a large Marina on the Detroit River near the Burg. My first challenge is the interior of the "Independence". I have to scan and then model the existing interior of the cabin. The end customer will be completely updating this part of the boat and adding new kitchen appliances and marble countertops. This one is a real test run for a full rebuild this summer. On the next boat, they will be ripping it back to the fiberglass and completely rebuilding the whole cabin. A lot of promising work coming up on this customer.

I will post my work in progress. Right now I am converting, aligning scans from the "Independence". Raw files came in at 70GB. I am pushing my computer to the limits. This is also a first run on this kind of work, so I am developing workflow as I go... Point cloud every 1mm.....

Very cool project!) I wonder what the parameters of your computer are. My tasks are much easier, but I'm not satisfied with the power of my computer and I want to change it. I wonder what parameters are needed for comfortable work.

 

[Matt-Aburg]

Very cool project!) I wonder what the parameters of your computer are. My tasks are much easier, but I'm not satisfied with the power of my computer and I want to change it. I wonder what parameters are needed for comfortable work.

Which scanner do you have ? I just had a new PC built to process faster, So far it is killing the old machine,

 

[Former Member]

Having worked with high end computing/graphics, you have two options.

Dedicated Commercial Workstation, very pricy.

Or

Optioned out Gaming machine, a lot cost with slightly lower quality components (note not slower) which matches the performance. If its your machine more than likely a little care it stands up to the use (you don't abuse your own stuff). Best bang for my thrifty buck.

 

[Matt-Aburg]

Very cool project!) I wonder what the parameters of your computer are. My tasks are much easier, but I'm not satisfied with the power of my computer and I want to change it. I wonder what parameters are needed for comfortable work.

listed below

Having worked with high end computing/graphics, you have two options.

Dedicated Commercial Workstation, very pricy.

Or

Optioned out Gaming machine, a lot cost with slightly lower quality components (note not slower) which matches the performance. If its your machine more than likely a little care it stands up to the use (you don't abuse your own stuff). Best bang for my thrifty buck.

This is not a workstation. They have not released the new chips yet, so to go workstation it is best to wait until end of year. I went with this, which is about as fast as you can buy on a commercial level, with a upper midgrade professional graphic card. Note the workstations will allow you to put in up to 2 TB of RAM... Just not here yet...

 

[Former Member]

listed below

This is not a workstation. They have not released the new chips yet, so to go workstation it is best to wait until end of year. I went with this, which is about as fast as you can buy on a commercial level, with a upper midgrade professional graphic card. Note the workstations will allow you to put in up to 2 TB of RAM... Just not here yet...

Nice!

 

[LenVW]

Back in time between 98 to 04 I had a part time job (beside my a full time work schedules) for wife's uncle company. He had a big contract for one of Magna, to design and build automation lines and robotic stations. 2 years and multi million dollar project, to finance the project he had to pickup some loans. He was getting paid in "progress payments".
And still Magna managed to screw him badly and he lost he's house that resulted loosing health, I lost about my money $150K.
Because of a wording in the contract... "may be in use"may upgrade later"may this and that" ... It is hard t play with big guys.

Seems like MAGNA had a habit of driving their contractors out of business. I was working on automation projects for a firm in 2008 when they refused to pay based on minor technicalities and contract wording.
They held up payments that drove a friend of mine into bankruptcy.

 

[Matt-Aburg]

Seems like MAGNA had a habit of driving their contractors out of business. I was working on automation projects for a firm in 2008 when they refused to pay based on minor technicalities and contract wording.
They held up payments that drove a friend of mine into bankruptcy.

I think this customer had too much time in the Automotive Industry. He starts something, then puts it on HOLD, in order not to pay. Today, 45 days later... I have sent a question about whether he still needs my services, If any contract comes up. I will make sure that WIP is payed to the point when it gets put on HOLD.

Anyway .. this time stamp is now set AGAIN !!

 

[Former Member]

Years ago I dealt with Ford in Oakville as a contractor, constantly changing their rules for getting paid. Finally, shut down an elevator or two until payment was made and they followed our rules....we do the work they pay on time, or their line shuts down.

Sometimes request of payment by forced hand is in order.

 

[Matt-Aburg]

Well I billed him one invoice for the first scan of the Century Logo. I only billed for scanning and not modelling services. I also stated that it would be exactly what the scanner output, not rotated or decimated... (raw data). I was promptly answered the same day, and received a check by the following Monday.

Today, I received a call. He wants me for an emergency with his brand new 5 X 10 router. He needs programming services. I have a meeting on Monday. I might be part time or contract... TBD.. I need to load my Mastercam onto the mobile workstation tomorrow for the meeting....

On the large boat scans, his customer has not decided yet... I could see both BIG boats being on hold until fall since they might be in use now??? Anyway, he at least talked about it...

 

[Matt-Aburg]

I am now working at the Marina and home doing CNC programming of a brand new 5 X 10 Router using my Mastercam seat. I am being paid as a consultant. Billing will be weekly. Today, we will be actually running the machine for the first time. Both the owner and I working together to make it work. So far, I am into this for 21 hours at minimally 35$ / hr... (need to put a price on still).. I asked him if he wanted me as an employee, or as a contractor. He said up to me... I choose to stay contractor for now..

All large boat scans are on HOLD pending his tight wad customers go ahead... It will be happening, just when??