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3D Printers

Janger

(John)
Administrator
Vendor
Hi All, especially @kevin.decelles, @Jwest7788 , @Alexander, and anyone else who owns a 3D Printer.

Can I invite you chime in on what to buy? I want to get one that is fairly capable and not require me to learn Linux and shell programming to actually print anything. I actually want to print not spend loads of time on configuration.

https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=107&cp_id=10724&cs_id=1072403&p_id=15710&seq=1&format=2
I was looking at this one for $650USD. I have no idea but it reads like it would be useful.

I want to print tough parts with ABS for example. Threaded parts. Tool accessories for the shop. Bicycle accessories.

Any thoughts from the forum?
 

Tom O

Ultra Member
Looks not too bad, a heated bed is the way to go it has a nice build area also the 20 micron layers would help out with overhangs. Dual filaments would be nice with dissolvable support filament or doing two different colours.
I’d watch a few you tube videos first though.
 

kevin.decelles

Jack of all trades -- Master of none
Premium Member
I went the prusa i3 clone route , learning curve was steep but the flexibility has been well worth it

Comparably, buddy at work went with a retail mono price type clone and was printing better quality stuff weeks ahead of me...... but is very limited in what he can change on his machine

To date I've been able to improve on print quality by making mods to design, improve print speed by reducing weight, modify firmware to accommodate auto levelling etc. Pretty much no limit to the possibilities...... but for me the tuning is 80% of the enjoyment




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Jwest7788

Joshua West
Administrator
@Alexander, Did you apply the Mosfet fix to your i3? Also, the wire crimp fix?
That model has had two issues which should be addressed if you haven't already. (Both risked burning homes down)




I have two printers,

a Monoprice Select plus (~$400), and later upgraded to a Prusa I3 MK3 kit (~$799 USD for the kit || ~$899 USD assembled printer).

I didn't know if 3d printing was something I would get much enjoyment or utility out of. As such I didn't dive right into a pricey printer.

Monoprice


Pros:
  • Not too expensive
  • Will have you actually printing in 1-3 hours
  • Prints look pretty good!
  • Not too terrible to service. (More on that later)
  • Heated bed for printing a wide range of materials
    • Spring levelling means if you crash into the bed it's not the end of the world
  • Really large community online to help with mods and support
  • Came with a bit of filament (not much, enough to print a little sample print)

Cons: (This was all while I was very new to 3D printing. Possible that I generally got a lemon machine, also possible I was somehow the cause of some of these issues, but this type of thing isn't new territory for me, so I suspect more of the former than the latter.)
  • This printer also had a fire hazard recall / fix to be implemented related to spring bed levelling shorting out the heatbed.
  • Learned to service as I had the first printer stop working within a month due to a stepper / stepper driver failing, got a replacement printer from Amazon.
  • The second printer had it's own issues:
    • Had to replace the thermistor (Temp sensor) in the heatbed
    • Main extruder heater failed
    • Had to replace the main part cooling fan which stopped working and caused a print to fail
    • Replacement's motherboard died ~3 months later, had to buy a replacement ($140) (Probably this is what caused some prior issues)
    • Still throws odd errors causing prints to fail half way
  • Monoprice support is non-existent. Opened a ticket online, called and left a message. Two weeks later got a call back, and the kid I spoke to knew basically nothing about the printer.
  • Spring bed levelling needs to be adjusted after every print. (Huge pain in the rear)
  • The bed surface they use works very well (too well?). I often struggle to get parts off of it without tearing the bed surface ($10 part and 1/2 hour to replacement) or damaging the part. Only once have I cut myself deep enough to consider getting stitches, haha.
  • Print quality isn't actually fantastic, I just had no frame of reference, so anything printed was great! lol (I can print the same thing on both printers if you want a side by side?)
  • Have not seen a single update push out for this machine since I bought it. There is actually a group producing their own hand made firmware becuase of the lack of updates.
    • These guys started their own, as the native firmware doesn't even have some of the basics, like thermal runaway protection to prevent your printer catching on fire.

Monoprice summary:
Man, the machine was simple to get running initially, with only 4 screws to install, but it was a huge PITA by the end of the process, having to replace everything except half the wiring, the frame, and the motors themselves. Not many "creature comforts", but will get your feet wet with 3d printing.


Prusa i3 MK3

Pros:
  • Print quality is very good. (First print had a jaw-dropping effect after being used to the Monoprice)
  • The nature of printing your own parts, instead of mass fabbing them in china is that Prusa actually beta tests their own crap before shipping out broken or faulty designs / parts. See:
  • The print surface is removable, held on with magnets, and made of spring steel. You flex the sheet metal and the part pops off. Easy.
  • The heated bed has embedded magnets for the included inductive probe/sensor. This means the printer's firmware runs an automatic mesh bed levelling algorithm before each print. No springs, perfect layer height.
  • I chose the kit. Took a good chunk of time to put together, but I am intimately familiar with the printer's construction as a result.
  • Many parts of the printer are actually 3d printed (see: reprep). Which means 1/2 the parts I could remake if I need to.
    • Nothing has failed yet though, been since February printing pretty much non-stop
  • Filament optical sensor detects when you run out of filament and pauses the print for you to reload a new roll.
  • Came with 1KG of filament
  • Two different slicer software packages included.
    • "Prusa Control" --> Which is essentially beginner mode printing. Upload file, pick 4 settings from dropdown menus, print. -- Preconfigured for the printer, no setup required.
    • "Slic3r Prusa Edition" --> Full blown slicer with all the bells and whistles
  • Has a whole set of calibration tools and programs built into the machine. Just select the program and follow the on-screen prompts.
    • Has a self-diagnostic thing to check if anything is wrong. Gives you a to-do list if anything is out of specification
  • Large community for support
  • Prusa pushes regular updates to the slicer software and printer firmware. (Actual changes occurring ~daily to software: https://github.com/prusa3d/Prusa-Firmware/commits/MK3)
  • Live support agents from Prusa Research who are also extremely familiar with the machine
  • Prusa has a neat upgrade path system they've chosen to allow their printers to be of higher quality. (More on that in the summary below)
  • Silent mode is a thing, and it's truly super silent.
  • Power outages do not ruin prints, the printer will just pause and wait for power to come back on.
  • Crash detection and recovery
Cons:
  • Expensive for a starter printer
  • Doesn't look as cool out of the box (Just look at that link in @Janger 's original post, it's a cool looking printer!)
  • Requires upgrades if you want things like multiple extruders or an enclosure.

Upgrade path:
Prusa is pretty constantly rolling out software updates, and new hardware periodically. Sometimes bigger commitments like their new Multi-Material Upgrade, which is being overhauled currently, shipping in the next month or two (for 4 different filaments at one time. Either 4 different colours, or 3 colours and soluble supports, etc.)

They've never outright said it, but I get the sense that they put all of their per product price into high-end components, and leave out things that only some users will need (like an enclosure), they then offer solutions separate to the base printer, which are often easy to implement, because you own a 3d printer. Of all of them the Multi-Material Upgrade is the only one they're going to charge for that isn't a consumable anyways.

Here's their enclosure solution video: (skip to 1 minute in:)
Here's the most recent upgrade to the printer's 3d printed parts: https://shop.prusa3d.com/forum/gene...-f61/new-printed-parts-version-r3-t23017.html
$20 solution for wireless file upload to the printer: https://www.prusaprinters.org/easy-wireless-printing-with-flashair-sd-cards/
etc.

Summary:
If I could start over knowing what I do, I would have just skipped the monoprice completely and started with a Prusa MK3. It's been solid, without issue, super convenient, with lots of safeties and features that generally make it feel like the technology is as flushed out as paper printing is. As such, I tend to print more, and more functionally, because I am not fighting the machine the whole time. It's more money, but a "you get what you pay for" type situation IMHO.



I want to print tough parts with ABS for example. Threaded parts. Tool accessories for the shop. Bicycle accessories.
Look into PETG, which you can print on any of the printers listed in this thread, without the need for an enclosure. It also doesn't stink like ABS.
https://3dprint.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/3dp_colorfabbngen_chart.jpg

Prints like PLA with strength much closer to ABS, without the curling and smell issues of ABS.


If you want, come by sometime and I can show you both printers.

JW
 

Alexander

Ultra Member
Administrator
I have over 500 hours on my printer. The day i got it i installed the microswiss all metal hot end. I have never replaced a single part and I have never made any modifications or repairs. obviously this experience speaks for its self. This cheap printer is cheap as they come and has good quality components made to last. i only paid $300 for mine and it had one hour on the clock. someone bought it and realized they were in over there head. watch kijiji buy whatever is cheap. I didn't know about either of the issues josh had mentioned but it works so well i had no reason to read any of the internet form stuff.
 

Janger

(John)
Administrator
Vendor
@Alexander, Did you apply the Mosfet fix to your i3? Also, the wire crimp fix?
That model has had two issues which should be addressed if you haven't already. (Both risked burning homes down)




I have two printers,

a Monoprice Select plus (~$400), and later upgraded to a Prusa I3 MK3 kit (~$799 USD for the kit || ~$899 USD assembled printer).

I didn't know if 3d printing was something I would get much enjoyment or utility out of. As such I didn't dive right into a pricey printer.

Monoprice

Pros:
  • Not too expensive
  • Will have you actually printing in 1-3 hours
  • Prints look pretty good!
  • Not too terrible to service. (More on that later)
  • Heated bed for printing a wide range of materials
    • Spring levelling means if you crash into the bed it's not the end of the world
  • Really large community online to help with mods and support
  • Came with a bit of filament (not much, enough to print a little sample print)

Cons: (This was all while I was very new to 3D printing. Possible that I generally got a lemon machine, also possible I was somehow the cause of some of these issues, but this type of thing isn't new territory for me, so I suspect more of the former than the latter.)
  • This printer also had a fire hazard recall / fix to be implemented related to spring bed levelling shorting out the heatbed.
  • Learned to service as I had the first printer stop working within a month due to a stepper / stepper driver failing, got a replacement printer from Amazon.
  • The second printer had it's own issues:
    • Had to replace the thermistor (Temp sensor) in the heatbed
    • Main extruder heater failed
    • Had to replace the main part cooling fan which stopped working and caused a print to fail
    • Replacement's motherboard died ~3 months later, had to buy a replacement ($140) (Probably this is what caused some prior issues)
    • Still throws odd errors causing prints to fail half way
  • Monoprice support is non-existent. Opened a ticket online, called and left a message. Two weeks later got a call back, and the kid I spoke to knew basically nothing about the printer.
  • Spring bed levelling needs to be adjusted after every print. (Huge pain in the rear)
  • The bed surface they use works very well (too well?). I often struggle to get parts off of it without tearing the bed surface ($10 part and 1/2 hour to replacement) or damaging the part. Only once have I cut myself deep enough to consider getting stitches, haha.
  • Print quality isn't actually fantastic, I just had no frame of reference, so anything printed was great! lol (I can print the same thing on both printers if you want a side by side?)
  • Have not seen a single update push out for this machine since I bought it. There is actually a group producing their own hand made firmware becuase of the lack of updates.
    • These guys started their own, as the native firmware doesn't even have some of the basics, like thermal runaway protection to prevent your printer catching on fire.

Monoprice summary:
Man, the machine was simple to get running initially, with only 4 screws to install, but it was a huge PITA by the end of the process, having to replace everything except half the wiring, the frame, and the motors themselves. Not many "creature comforts", but will get your feet wet with 3d printing.


Prusa i3 MK3

Pros:
  • Print quality is very good. (First print had a jaw-dropping effect after being used to the Monoprice)
  • The nature of printing your own parts, instead of mass fabbing them in china is that Prusa actually beta tests their own crap before shipping out broken or faulty designs / parts. See:
  • The print surface is removable, held on with magnets, and made of spring steel. You flex the sheet metal and the part pops off. Easy.
  • The heated bed has embedded magnets for the included inductive probe/sensor. This means the printer's firmware runs an automatic mesh bed levelling algorithm before each print. No springs, perfect layer height.
  • I chose the kit. Took a good chunk of time to put together, but I am intimately familiar with the printer's construction as a result.
  • Many parts of the printer are actually 3d printed (see: reprep). Which means 1/2 the parts I could remake if I need to.
    • Nothing has failed yet though, been since February printing pretty much non-stop
  • Filament optical sensor detects when you run out of filament and pauses the print for you to reload a new roll.
  • Came with 1KG of filament
  • Two different slicer software packages included.
    • "Prusa Control" --> Which is essentially beginner mode printing. Upload file, pick 4 settings from dropdown menus, print. -- Preconfigured for the printer, no setup required.
    • "Slic3r Prusa Edition" --> Full blown slicer with all the bells and whistles
  • Has a whole set of calibration tools and programs built into the machine. Just select the program and follow the on-screen prompts.
    • Has a self-diagnostic thing to check if anything is wrong. Gives you a to-do list if anything is out of specification
  • Large community for support
  • Prusa pushes regular updates to the slicer software and printer firmware. (Actual changes occurring ~daily to software: https://github.com/prusa3d/Prusa-Firmware/commits/MK3)
  • Live support agents from Prusa Research who are also extremely familiar with the machine
  • Prusa has a neat upgrade path system they've chosen to allow their printers to be of higher quality. (More on that in the summary below)
  • Silent mode is a thing, and it's truly super silent.
  • Power outages do not ruin prints, the printer will just pause and wait for power to come back on.
  • Crash detection and recovery
Cons:
  • Expensive for a starter printer
  • Doesn't look as cool out of the box (Just look at that link in @Janger 's original post, it's a cool looking printer!)
  • Requires upgrades if you want things like multiple extruders or an enclosure.

Upgrade path:
Prusa is pretty constantly rolling out software updates, and new hardware periodically. Sometimes bigger commitments like their new Multi-Material Upgrade, which is being overhauled currently, shipping in the next month or two (for 4 different filaments at one time. Either 4 different colours, or 3 colours and soluble supports, etc.)

They've never outright said it, but I get the sense that they put all of their per product price into high-end components, and leave out things that only some users will need (like an enclosure), they then offer solutions separate to the base printer, which are often easy to implement, because you own a 3d printer. Of all of them the Multi-Material Upgrade is the only one they're going to charge for that isn't a consumable anyways.

Here's their enclosure solution video: (skip to 1 minute in:)
Here's the most recent upgrade to the printer's 3d printed parts: https://shop.prusa3d.com/forum/gene...-f61/new-printed-parts-version-r3-t23017.html
$20 solution for wireless file upload to the printer: https://www.prusaprinters.org/easy-wireless-printing-with-flashair-sd-cards/
etc.

Summary:
If I could start over knowing what I do, I would have just skipped the monoprice completely and started with a Prusa MK3. It's been solid, without issue, super convenient, with lots of safeties and features that generally make it feel like the technology is as flushed out as paper printing is. As such, I tend to print more, and more functionally, because I am not fighting the machine the whole time. It's more money, but a "you get what you pay for" type situation IMHO.




Look into PETG, which you can print on any of the printers listed in this thread, without the need for an enclosure. It also doesn't stink like ABS.
https://3dprint.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/3dp_colorfabbngen_chart.jpg

Prints like PLA with strength much closer to ABS, without the curling and smell issues of ABS.


If you want, come by sometime and I can show you both printers.

JW
Nice write up Josh. They should give you a free printer. Would a night this week be ok to visit?
 

Bofobo

M,Mizera(BOFOBO)
Would love to see if i can get my printer funtioning before i buy a new computer for it. Knowing what you are doing perhaps you can figure it out. I figure i can(or should be able to) at least transfer files and print without designing anything to at least get started, printing things like the controller/display enclosure
 

Alexander

Ultra Member
Administrator
Josh i also interested in seeing your printer. Message me with a time that works for you and john
 

Jwest7788

Joshua West
Administrator
Would love to see if i can get my printer funtioning before i buy a new computer for it. Knowing what you are doing perhaps you can figure it out. I figure i can(or should be able to) at least transfer files and print without designing anything to at least get started, printing things like the controller/display enclosure

What kind of printer are you working on?

Josh i also interested in seeing your printer. Message me with a time that works for you and john

Nice write up Josh. They should give you a free printer. Would a night this week be ok to visit?

Look forward to seeing you both.


An evening? A few? Day and days?
~2 hours a night for ~5 days

Pretty lazy pace though. I could have hammered the thing out on a Saturday if I focused on the single task.
I built it while watching Netflix, chatting with my wife the whole time. haha
 

Janger

(John)
Administrator
Vendor
I’ve printed quite a few parts now. The prusa mk3 has been pretty good. I did have a 3 week outage waiting for a new power supply but it’s all sorted out now.

I do have this question. My part dimensions come out a bit Big. In this example the hole should be 1”. Instead its 1”-1/32” or 31/32” in diameter. Is this typical? I’ve seen this now a few times. Is there a way to compensate besides at CAD time and just make the parts bigger or smaller according to the typical expansion factor?
 

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Tom O

Ultra Member
Is there nothing that lets you increase or decrease the model before posting? Mine is in + / - %.
 

kevin.decelles

Jack of all trades -- Master of none
Premium Member
John, can you email me the stl file? I'd like to try a print to see what my result is


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Colten Edwards

Fabricator
Here is where in Simplify3d. I'm sure other software slicer's have a similar setting somewhere.
 

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Janger

(John)
Administrator
Vendor
Ok I uploaded a simple little test stl file. It's a small part with a 1" hole. I'm printing it right now with PETG. Once done I'll measure and post to assess accuracy of printing on my machine. Anyone else care to try?
 

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Janger

(John)
Administrator
Vendor
The hole in the printed part Measures 0.984” or 0.016” under sized. That’s 1.6% too small. Interesting the square edges are 0.001 or 0.002 oversized so very very close. Sides are 1.375” and measure 1.377 or 1.376”.
 

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kevin.decelles

Jack of all trades -- Master of none
Premium Member
I'll give it a try tomorrow . Having other issues with my prusa clone


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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