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12 x 36 gearhead lathe

Ok @canuck750. You are going to need a multimeter if we are to figure this out on the forum here so you will have to bear with me.

Electrical stuff isn’t everyone’s forte which is fine, but think of it simply like compressed air or steam system for visualization. With switches as valves, your contactor coil as the “load” like a steam turbine or air tool, and then the other line returning to the compressor intake or condensate tank.

Your multimeter when on voltage measures “pressure”, amps would measure “flow” and ohms would simply tell you if the pipe is open or blocked.

What we need to do is start isolating components and sections of the wiring, and eliminating them one at a time. No check is too simple and no test is unimportant. It’s a process of elimination.

If your lathe does not match the wiring diagram you posted earlier in this thread, we need the correct wiring diagram before we walk through this further.

Now assuming you have a capable multimeter, we should be able to perform the necessary tests with the main power to the lathe OFF, to avoid any mishaps.

Let me know if you have a meter and the proper wiring diagram, if it isn’t the one above then post it, and then Let’s start with this simple sanity check.

With your multimeter on Ohms, let’s measure the coil of the old contactor you took out of the machine and replaced. That will be your terminals A1 and A2.

Post the value you get, assuming you want to carry through with this course of action.

Note: chances of us figuring this out if you humor me on these tests and follow along with me are in my mind, extremely high. Even though it may seem like we are grasping at straws, I would urge you persevere.
 
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BaitMaster said:
Ok @canuck750. You are going to need a multimeter if we are to figure this out on the forum here so you will have to bear with me.

Electrical stuff isn’t everyone’s forte which is fine, but think of it simply like compressed air or steam system for visualization. With switches as valves, your contactor coil as the “load” like a steam turbine or air tool, and then the other line returning to the compressor intake or condensate tank.

Your multimeter when on voltage measures “pressure”, amps would measure “flow” and ohms would simply tell you if the pipe is open or blocked.

What we need to do is start isolating components and sections of the wiring, and eliminating them one at a time. No check is too simple and no test is unimportant. It’s a process of elimination.

If your lathe does not match the wiring diagram you posted earlier in this thread, we need the correct wiring diagram before we walk through this further.

Now assuming you have a capable multimeter, we should be able to perform the necessary tests with the main power to the lathe OFF, to avoid any mishaps.

Let me know if you have a meter and the proper wiring diagram, if it isn’t the one above then post it, and then Let’s start with this simple sanity check.

With your multimeter on Ohms, let’s measure the coil of the old contactor you took out of the machine and replaced. That will be your terminals A1 and A2.

Post the value you get, assuming you want to carry through with this course of action.

Note: chances of us figuring this out if you humor me on these tests and follow along with me are in my mind, extremely high. Even though it may seem like we are grasping at straws, I would urge you persevere.
Click to expand...
Thank you for your expertise and assistance!!
I have a multi meter, have a rudimentary understanding of its use, I restore motorcycles from 60’s - 70’s, all types of Italian makes, some with battery coil ignition, some are energy transfer (flywheel magneto) and even a magneto system.
I don’t have a manual for my lathe but I did download the Grizzly manual and parts diagrams as most of the parts are interchangeable except the control levers for head speeds are different. The Grizzly electrical parts page shows a common contactor for F and R and a different type for main power, on my machine all three contactors are the same. I don’t even know what make or model this lathe was sold under but as I said as far as I can tell the gearbox, sadle, cross slide, bed etc. is the same as the Grizzly.
I could attempt to draw the wiring based upon the labels on the wires going to the contacts.
Probably a dumb question, but would converting to a VFD and new motor eliminate the majority of the existing electrical components and wiring?
 
You could bypass almost all of the factory wiring if you converted to a VFD and decided not to utilize the factory e-stop circuit or the factory controls. That’s a whole different project. This problem may bite you in the rear there too if the problem lies in the factory controls and you decide you would like to use them.

This problem is likely something extremely simple and inexpensive to fix.

Putting in a VFD for this simple problem with the wiring would be like swapping out a car engine when you are having problems with the engine overheating. It might fix it, might not. Could be the rad. Could be the lines. Could be the fan. Or it could be the water pump or thermostat that you would get with a new engine.

Up to you.

Let me know what the coil reads on the old contactor.
 
canuck750 said:
Thank you for your expertise and assistance!!
Click to expand...

I trust you know that @BaitMaster is taking on a major task for you. Sometimes it's difficult to sort through such problems in person let alone long distance on a forum.

But as they say, he knows his shit and I'd give high odds of success as long as you are patient and do exactly as he says.

Help him help you by posting a photo of your multimeter.

Although a VFD and new 3ph motor results in a superior system, I'd forget about that for now.

I'd also suggest that the rest of us back off - too many cooks.....

Good luck to both of you.
 
BaitMaster said:
You could bypass almost all of the factory wiring if you converted to a VFD and decided not to utilize the factory e-stop circuit or the factory controls. That’s a whole different project. This problem may bite you in the rear there too if the problem lies in the factory controls and you decide you would like to use them.

This problem is likely something extremely simple and inexpensive to fix.

Putting in a VFD for this simple problem with the wiring would be like swapping out a car engine when you are having problems with the engine overheating. It might fix it, might not. Could be the rad. Could be the lines. Could be the fan. Or it could be the water pump or thermostat that you would get with a new engine.

Up to you.

Let me know what the coil reads on the old contactor.
Click to expand...
That’s good advice, solve one problem at a time. I will take that reading this morning and post the results. The original contractor at least allowed me to get the machine running by holding down the black button until the machine started, then I could release the pressure on the button a continue to use the lathe. With the new contractor I can’t do that, the button will not stay down.
Thanks again
Jim
 
Measured the original CJX1-22 controller (the replacement is CJX1-22/22, not sure if the /22 suffix is the same as the original?)

Multimeter set to 200 Ohms, reading 7.0

 
Ok. Let’s do the same test on the currently installed contactor. You will have to remove one of the wires off of one of the terminals, test, and replace (the wire back in its position). This is so that the reading isn’t messed up by anything else in the circuit.
 
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Instead of removing and re terminating the wire on the installed contactor, you can remove Fuse # 1 temporarily. This will also help us with the next few tests.

The next test ( with fuse 1 pulled ) is to test OHMs between wires 3 and 5. These are on the NO auxiliary contact on the contactor you replaced.

When performing this test, please make sure your operating switch on the carriage is first in either forward or reverse. Reading should be OL.

Then, while testing, press in the contactor with your “black button”. The reading should then be 0.0 ohms or close to.

Then release the contactor. Reading should be OL again. Now please move your operating switch to the Neutral/off/middle position. Have a friend hold in the “start” button.

Then test the same wires. The reading should be 0.0 ohms or close to. When releasing the start button, or moving the operating switch to forward or reverse, the reading should return to OL.

Let me know how this goes for you.
 
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BaitMaster said:
Ok. Let’s do the same test on the currently installed contactor. You will have to remove one of the wires off of one of the terminals, test, and replace (the wire back in its position). This is so that the reading isn’t messed up by anything else in the circuit.
Click to expand...


Fuse is installed and wire disconnected from terminal A1
 
BaitMaster said:
Instead of removing and re terminating the wire on the installed contactor, you can remove Fuse # 1 temporarily. This will also help us with the next few tests.

The next test ( with fuse 1 pulled ) is to test OHMs between wires 3 and 5. These are on the NO auxiliary contact on the contactor you replaced.

When performing this test, please make sure your operating switch on the carriage is first in either forward or reverse. Reading should be OL.

Then, while testing, press in the contactor with your “black button”. The reading should then be 0.0 ohms or close to.

Then release the contactor. Reading should be OL again. Now please move your operating switch to the Neutral/off/middle position. Have a friend hold in the “start” button.

Then test the same wires. The reading should be 0.0 ohms or close to. When releasing the start button, or moving the operating switch to forward or reverse, the reading should return to OL.

Let me know how this goes for you.
Click to expand...

BaitMaster said:
Instead of removing and re terminating the wire on the installed contactor, you can remove Fuse # 1 temporarily. This will also help us with the next few tests.

The next test ( with fuse 1 pulled ) is to test OHMs between wires 3 and 5. These are on the NO auxiliary contact on the contactor you replaced.

When performing this test, please make sure your operating switch on the carriage is first in either forward or reverse. Reading should be OL.

Then, while testing, press in the contactor with your “black button”. The reading should then be 0.0 ohms or close to.

Then release the contactor. Reading should be OL again. Now please move your operating switch to the Neutral/off/middle position. Have a friend hold in the “start” button.

Then test the same wires. The reading should be 0.0 ohms or close to. When releasing the start button, or moving the operating switch to forward or reverse, the reading should return to OL.

Let me know how this goes for you.
Click to expand...


I pulled the right hand fuse to take this reading between 13NO and 14NO, carriage switch to forward

Then I had the lathe control lever set to forward and held the black button in

 
Same tests as above but LEFT side fuse removed

Carriage in forward. Button not depressed



Carriage In forward button depressed



Carriage in neutral button not depressed



Carriage in neutral button depressed

 
the left side fuse is clearly fuse #1.

Ok. Great work so far. Now, I think you have one erroneous reading. The very last test, when you press the black tab on the contactor in, it should always connect.

Also, when I said “start” button, I did NOT mean the contactor. I apologize if this wasn’t clear. The start button is going to be on the front of the lathe. I believe it’s labeled “power start”.

I did want you to press in the contactor in the first part of the tests. In the second part when I said start button, I was talking about the “power start” button on the FRONT of the lathe.

I need you to Re-do the part of the tests where I asked about the “start” button.

We are certainly getting somewhere.
 
Left fuse removed. Carriage in forward, controller button depressed, Start button not depressed.
On scale Ohm reads 1


Same as above but Start button on front panel is depressed same reading of 1



Carriage in neutral controller button depressed but start button Not depressed reading 0.5



Same as above but Start button is held down while controller button is held down as well, same reading 0.5
 
Ok. So what I need is: Fuse 1 out, carriage in neutral, “power start” button on the front controls of lathe is held down depressed, (the contactor black button is NOT touched and NOT depressed at any point during this) then the reading taken. This reading should be 0.0.

Then when the “power start” button on the front of the lathe (not the contactor) is let go of, the reading should go to the “1 . “

When the “power start” button on the front of the lathe (not the contactor) is held again, it should go back to 0.0.

Then if the carriage switch is moved to forward or reverse while the “power start” button on the front of the lathe is held down (not the contactor) it should also go to “1 . “

This whole test is performed without pressing in the contactor. We do not need to press the black button on the contactor at all during this.

Let me know when you have this done. The pictures are great.
 
I will have to pick it back up tomorrow around 11:00 am. I have to go and pickup the grandkids in a half hour.
Thank you so much for your patience and time will take the new readings tomorrow
 
canuck750 said:
I will have to pick it back up tomorrow around 11:00 am. I have to go and pickup the grandkids in a half hour.
Thank you so much for your patience and time will take the new readings tomorrow
Click to expand...
It’s no problem. I do remote tech support on electrical machinery all the time, so it’s no trouble. Usually on much larger and more complicated machines.

As long as we can communicate effectively and stay patient, I have no doubt we will get this licked.
 
I have completed the tests:

Left fuse is removed throughout these readings.

Carriage in neutral and power start button held down - 200 Ohm scale reads 0.6

As per above, release power start button - reads 1.0

As per above, again hold down power start button reads- 0.6

Carriage in forward position, power start button held down reads - 1.0

Carriage in reverse position, power start button held down reads - 1.0
 
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