Workplace Safety at work and in the home shop

[JustaDB]

...a great deal of someone going home uninjured and in one piece is up to that someone.

You simply cannot fix stupid. Ignorance can be fixed w/ a book. Stupid takes a shotgun & a shovel.

 

[JustaDB]

and spray a stream for 30ft.

Huh. Sounds like Sat nite at the pub...

 

[Downwindtracker2]

My first time on a jiggle hoist (JLG) was at the truck shop of the Bullmoose coal mine . I was a carpenter then . The foreman told us to put something at the end of the overhead hoist rails. They were high enough to clear the mine trucks dump boxes when they were up . The slab wasn't poured yet and the ground was uneven. My partner and I had never used one of these new fangled things, so it was what does this lever do? I scared my partner, a tough?? biker . He wanted down, and told the foreman he couldn't handle it with his Monday morning hangover. A lie. My next partner was a mountain climber, he got the controls. Boy, that was some ride !

Now you understand why we have to wear harnesses with lanyards and have tickets.

 

[Elektrishun]

The thing that gets me more then anything is 95% of the time, these safety people on job sites have not done any actual work themselves EVER.

It’s not like there are legit electricians telling the electricians how to do stuff safely within reason, or the welders telling welders…. Most are pencil necks.

If I had a nickel in my pockets for everytime I was in conversation with other trades people who were losing their minds about having to deal with a safety person or project manager whose previous work experience was interior decorator or they had a degree in commerce I'd have to turn my ball cap sideways and throw up gang signs while I walked with my nickel loaded pants hanging around my knees.

 

[Elektrishun]

WCB is there so companies don't get sued . Look up the history ! I didn't put much trust in them. Or companies for that matter, $$$. One place where I listened to the warnings, was from my fellow millwrights .It a small world, it was surprising how often you would run in the same guys. "Too much lead and the lead goes out of your pencil " " Aluminum boat welders don't last much past 35"

You're a millwright...
So do you now own the plane that flies you to work and back home?

 

[Tom O]

Great thread. I haven't heard anything about welding or soldering fume extraction, other than "I try to do it outside". That's not gonna happen much of the year around here, or maybe most places. I have finally gotten a TIG welder (which I now have to learn how to use!) and the manual mentions that Tungsten is particularly nasty. I am putting in a fan and hood and already have something like that for the electronics area.

What do people have/do?

Here is one of my “ Project 42 “ I also have an inline extraction fan temperature controlled for the summertime to keep the temperature down. It wouldn’t be too hard to use a fan from a inflatable castle to make a portable one either.

 

[BaitMaster]

It’s not being safe that gets me ticked. I do my best to be safe. I bought a 2000$ petzl harness kit so that I would WEAR it when I go up.

I teach my apprentices to be safe every day. I wear PPE when it makes sense. I do my job the best way I know how.

It’s the safety “industry” that gets me.

The common industry practice of paying people 100K a year to walk around job sites like middle school hall monitors gets to me.

The practice of mandating 100$ tiny knives with dull tips and 50$ cut resistant gloves that wear out in a week to stop people who’ve never learned how to properly use a knife from cutting themselves gets to me.

Mandating 5 x 300$ 8 hour (2 of it productive) courses to get on a job site gets to me. It’s just another de facto tax.

Most “safety” in the real world from what I’ve seen basically enables a private sector industrial “leech” class of people to make a living without contributing a whole heck of a lot.

It’s like the government. But different.

Teach people to do things properly. Teach people not to take unecessary risks. Do things safely yourself and lead by example and look after your own rear end first of all.

But people DO take risks and some people ARE reckless. People have been getting killed in a myriad of ways since the dawn of time. A herd (gaggle? Pride? Flock?) of overpaid overweight schoolmarms in white hard hats and clean vests aren’t going to fix the human race’s propensity for dumb life ending decisions no matter how much they get paid or how much authority we give them.

One hundred percent be safe and work safe for yourself though. And teach others to do the same.

I for one would be in favour of mandating safety “reps” have a trade ticket, and submit a mandatory 5000 word essay on the lessons that can be learned from Atlas Shrugged.

 

[TorontoBuilder]

I had a former co-worker suffer a catastrophic head injury on the job. A hermetically sealed compressor he was leak testing suffered a rapid unscheduled disassembly. It is miraculous that he did not die on site, or on route to emergency care, or during surgery. It would have been better if he had though.

Everyone involved made every effort to blame the injured person. The employer's lawyers, the lawyers of the largest north american HVAC manufacturer, the insurer, everyone tried to say user error lead to the worker over pressurizing the compressor. Meanwhile the workers wife and family suffered unbelievable pain at the attacks and fear that the fellow would live for years and bring massive medical bills that would drown them. He'd just had a baby, it was horrific experience that lasted years.

IIRC in the end it was proven that the seal on the hermetic housing was faulty and the manufacturer had to settle. But by then the damage was done a family destroyed, children left functionally fatherless. I feel bad that I haven't stayed in touch with the family but we were never close and the guy I knew died that day on the job.

Rather than view safety requirements as a burden to follow, think of them as your protection against the corporate psychopaths who will try to screw you over if you get injured.

 

[TorontoBuilder]

It’s not being safe that gets me ticked. I do my best to be safe. I bought a 2000$ petzl harness kit so that I would WEAR it when I go up.


It’s the safety “industry” that gets me.

The common industry practice of paying people 100K a year to walk around job sites like middle school hall monitors gets to me.

You know that companies dont pay these expenses to protect you. They dont care if they are effective in the real world. This is merely risk mitigation to prevent lawsuits and massive liability judgements in the event of injury of an employee.

Even with a lack of regulation large employers will still have such personnel and requirements because of the massive judgements when companies are proven liable.

Frankly it costs a ton of money to provide lifelong care for severely injured workers

 

[CWret]

So who has a fire extinguisher in their shop

I have 3 - 2 are ABC and one BC, all 20 lb.
I once (many years ago) took a course enabling me to certify workers to perform an annual fire extinguisher inspection. Note1: anyone can do the monthly inspection, but training (varies in different jurisdictions) is required to perform a yearly inspection. Note2: the monthly (ABC) extinguisher inspection should include turning it upside down and giving it a hard tap to keep the chemicals from caking on the bottom.

I keep a stack of replacement lenses for the face shields

What do people have/do?

My first pair of prescription safety glasses didn't fit well. The next pair looked similar but fit way better and gave much better protection. Agreed - when buying a face shield, get one with a spare lens and more spares are readily available.

I do almost zero stick welding or ox/acetylene cutting inside. My workbench is where I do MIG & TIG (plasma cutting is inside & over a water table) and it is an area with no nearby flammables. Also: bulk flammables are in the shed; only a small container of each flammable is kept in the workshop (& in a steel cabinet); my garbage can is steel; I have a homemade (cheap but effective) fume extractor, and I do a 15-minute fire watch (after welding or doing spark-producing work, I stay in the shop for a while).

these safety people on job sites have not done any actual work themselves

having to deal with a safety person or project manager whose previous work experience was interior decorator or they had a degree in commerce

AGREED - so many "safety" people don't know their a*s from their elbow. I don't have a solution, but it is a workplace problem.

Here's a story that kind of verifies the inexperience of so-called "safety professionals":
- I took a MoL (Ontario Ministry of Labour) accredited Train the Trainer course in Fall Arrest (which is now called "Working from Heights"). After the 8-hour course, there was an easy (very easy) test and then I was certified to teach Fall Arrest. During the course, they showed many videos and did lots of blah blah talking. They had one fall arrest harness on display but no one demonstrated properly putting it on and no trainee tried to put it on. Just for the fun of it, a couple months later I took a 4-hour evening Fall Arrest course put on by CLAC (at their local union hall). This Fall Arrest course was taught by tradesmen. They had multiple types of harnesses and everyone put them on. They also had a couple of damaged harnesses that had been taken out of service and they explained what to look for when determining if your harness is safe to use. They also had many styles of lanyards. The first course was (IMO) dangerous, while the second was educational.

Please note: not all "safety professionals" are couch potatoes with no real-world experience. I have taught: CPR; First Add; Fall Arrest; and many other safety training courses. I have sat on or been the chairman of numerous safety-related committees. I was the Safety Director for two N Dakota coal mines. While in N Dakota I was an Emergency Medical Technician. Before getting the Safety Director position I had worked underground, been a rock drill operator, a coal mine foreman, and a blasting crew lead hand.

I believe some jobs (like an electrician) are more dangerous than others, but even a dangerous job can be safe if done correctly.
My Dad once said, "There are old pilots and bold pilots, but no old bold pilots". The same can be said for many occupations.

 

[Downwindtracker2]

You're a millwright...
So do you now own the plane that flies you to work and back home?

Seriously, I don't understand your question.

 

[Elektrishun]

Seriously, I don't understand your question.

Before I retired millwrights were becoming worth their weight in gold due to the demand and shortage. Where I worked we lost millwrights to better paying jobs elsewhere and couldn't find any to hire. Heard that some were being flown across Canada to where the higher paying jobs are. That's where the comment came from.

If you're one of those who benefitted from what appears to be a good time to be a millwright, plumber/pipefitter, steamfitter then that's awesome!

Edit:
Sort of a light hearted jab and pat on the back if you indeed now own the plane.

Meanwhile other trades people build houses they can't afford. Good to hear that some trades people are winning. Now I am being serious.

 

[mickeyf]

I use one of these when it's more then tacking https://a.co/d/1bMGA1m

Um... I'm just a hobbyist, nothing I buy is deductible as a business expense. For north of two grand I think I'll make do with a homemade fume hood and hope that the relatively few years I have left in my life are not negatively impacted by welding fumes. And perhaps spend what that thing costs on other shop toys or maybe a nice vacation.

I have had metal fume fever. Not welding galvanized, but boring galvanized fittings on a turret lathe about 45 years ago. Must have gotten hot enough. Nasty. Went home early that day, and when I came back I told the foreman I was not going to do that job anymore. He did not object in any way. I (now) know better than to weld galvanized.

 

[Tom O]

On a lathe? I’ve only really heard of it with metal casting or welding.

 

[Downwindtracker2]

Before I retired millwrights were becoming worth their weight in gold due to the demand and shortage. Where I worked we lost millwrights to better paying jobs elsewhere and couldn't find any to hire. Heard that some were being flown across Canada to where the higher paying jobs are. That's where the comment came from.

If you're one of those who benefitted from what appears to be a good time to be a millwright, plumber/pipefitter, steamfitter then that's awesome!

Edit:
Sort of a light hearted jab and pat on the back if you indeed now own the plane.

Meanwhile other trades people build houses they can't afford. Good to hear that some trades people are winning. Now I am being serious.

Not really, I retired in 2014 .Industrial electricians were considered as gold, and worth more per #, I might add. As I can understand as I struggle with my VFD. I took up millwrighting when I got hired as an unticketed one for a a sawmill in Northern BC. My first day was what have I gotten myself in for this time. The second day I realized they only ever made two machines, the roundy roundy and the in-n-out. It was a simple matter of finding out which and then why not. I did end up getting apprenticeship and a Red Seal in millwrighting to go with mine in carpentry.

I guess I should have taken something safer, like police officer. But I was too much of a rang-a-tang.

When it came to unsafe welding, sawmills would get the weekend temporary millwights to weld where the wood had been treated with pesticides. I carried an over the shoulder respirator for those jobs. Generally, steel welding was considered like smoking a pack a day. Much worse with paint. Since I never smoked I tried to avoid welding .

 

[Elektrishun]

Not really, I retired in 2014 .Industrial electricians were considered as gold, and worth more per #, I might add. As I can understand as I struggle with my VFD. I took up millwrighting when I got hired as an unticketed one for a a sawmill in Northern BC. My first day was what have I gotten myself in for this time. The second day I realized they only ever made two machines, the roundy roundy and the in-n-out. It was a simple matter of finding out which and then why not. I did end up getting apprenticeship and a Red Seal in millwrighting to go with mine in carpentry.

I guess I should have taken something safer, like police officer. But I was too much of a rang-a-tang.

When it came to unsafe welding, sawmills would get the weekend temporary millwights to weld where the wood had been treated with pesticides. I carried an over the shoulder respirator for those jobs. Generally, steel welding was considered like smoking a pack a day. Much worse with paint. Since I never smoked I tried to avoid welding .

When I went to school in my 2nd year we were told by staff that there were more apprentice electricians that semester than all other trades combined.

Shortly after I got my ticket I heard that the extra classes created were scaled back and some electrical instructors lost their jobs.

Similar to now, but years ago, there was a period of time when hiring most trades people at my place of work was a problem. To keep existing staff from leaving they gave everyone a quarterly retention bonus. Within a year as projects dwindled and more skilled workers were available looking for jobs the management took the retention bonus away. We all seen that coming from a mile away.

Myself personally, I just sat tight and kept working at the same place. Never tried following the "big money" when things were booming. That worked best for me and my family.