Windows-11

[phaxtris]

I agree with @Susquatch, I have been in PC's since MS-DOS, I have had literally every version of Windows, loosing backwards compatibility is a just a part of progress

Just wait until they decide to no longer produce x86 based hardware and everyone has to start switching over to arm processors, that will be quite the show

 

[Matt-Aburg]

You and I and a few others on here all started before there were PCs. We have been through custom hardware OS's of our own, to CPM, DOS, MSDos, windows, windows 3.1, windows 95, 98, XP, 7, 10, and now 11. That just picks a few noteable big changes. There is a hundred more in between.

Loss of backward software compatability is a fact of life. You have been through it before and you will get through it again a few more times before it doesn't matter anymore. It will be our grandkids problem then.

I have a few legacy computers too. Slowly but surely they die and force me to move on. I bitch like crazy, but moving on is inevitable. I used to fight it. Now I just bitch. Most important is to disconnect them from the internet. I use external drives to move data on old PCs but never Ethernet. Too much risk of malware getting onto my home network. Firewalls used to be all that was needed. Now it's all a liability. The best protection is to disconnect

Something to be said for the new stuff that will render a 3D airplane while also rendering Satelite imagery in real time. Or rotate a complex 3D CAD model as though you were holding it in your hands.

I went the subscription way with Office 365. I hated to give in, but it has its pluses. At least one of which is the multiple family users each with up to 6 PCs, Phones, Tablets and of course data portability.

It's not all bad John. No pain no gain.

Yup.. My first Pc was a 286 with a 40 MB hard-drive and 1 MB ram, powered by Windows 3.1 and MSDOS 5.1 .. I ran AutoCAD v10.0 on that one. That was in 1990. Since then.. I went to 486, then P1, P2, and so on. I have 2 legacey computers form before 2010 that still run... and many for specific tasks. I have had every OS since MSDOS 5.1 to current, with the exception of Vista.

Like I said on the previous post, my desing PC is dragging now procesing the scan data. As it sits now, today I am doing a process on it and it is using 246 GB of memory out of 196. So its scrolling, which means it is dragging... I could put in up to 512 GB ram, but also the sofware is made to run all the cores you can throw at it, which I only have 6.... Obviously, if this Boat gig pans out... will be time to get a new server PC. I will have to wait till they make larger RAM chips... 32 x 8 is still only 256. The chipset supports up to 2TB Ram.... but it is not invented yet, or would cost huge coin.

 

[gerritv]

I have read that if you do the workaround to install Win 11 without TPM that you will no longer receive any updates. That may or may not be a problem for some.

i'm still getting updates, including the feautre update 22H2

 

[Alexander]

@Alexander Do you use Office like Word, Excel, Outlook? Any software that is subscription that quits when you stop paying?

The only subscriptions I have are my Google one account and fusion360 both made the switch to windows 11 without me having to do anything

 

[jcdammeyer]

BAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! As a lifetime Apple guy, Winblows sucks.

I won't get into the rotten Apple verses Windows verses Linux war. My wife has a Macbook. Can't stand the user interface. Totally non-intuitive for my brain. Had an iPhone and changed to an Android. Much prefer the Android but didn't like that Apple made my iPhone redundant by not updating the browser. And now Microsoft has gone that direction.

Anyway, I updated Linda's old Macbook with Linux so it now looks like a Raspberry Pi w/o the physical I/O pins. I use LinuxCNC on the mill. I would use Linux for everything except that 99% of the work-work type software I use doesn't run on Linux and the similar programs aren't even close.

I guess one thing I could do is buy a second 2TB drive and make an image of my WIN-7 system and then update it. For some time now I've already had problems with Windows Home Server not properly backing everything up on the Win-7 machine. I think the length of file paths are the issues. Funny thing is WHS doesn't have a problem with the WIN-10 laptop.

But, for those not familiar with WHS the nicest thing about it was that one could boot off a CD or USB stick with a brand new hard drive installed. It would go to the Server and ask which image you want restored. Then rebuild the hard drive including all the hidden licenses and everything. The machine would look like it was at the last nightly backup.

Where that no longer works is that the drivers for the Gigabit Network cards don't exist for the WHS boot CD so although the image is there it can no longer be reconstructed. Not so bad for a desktop where you can install an older network card. Impossible for a laptop.

Ah... progress....

 

[gerritv]

BAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! As a lifetime Apple guy, Winblows sucks. I run some older Mac hardware w/ legacy software that there either a) isn't an upgrade path for or b) won't run on newer hardware without expensive software upgrades. As such, I'm stuck on OS 10.6.8. This means that even simple things like browser updates can't happen.

So typical, Apple prevents you from upgrading without even more expense, yet you say Windows blows. And because you don't want to pay, you are stuck with Firefox, bahahahahahaha
My experience with Apple is the opposite of yours, it is not intutive, prone to borking applications with an OS upgrade that then takes months to get fixed. Everytime I had to help at our church, I found MacOS non-intutive. And yes I do have plenty of Unix/Linux skills to lean on.

You will find that what you are used to is what you are used to. Doesn't make it better or worse. What I learned a long time ago when the IBM PC and PCDos first came out, get used to what you need to use to make a living. CP/M was better in many ways but that didn't matter. Otherwise you limit your career paths. E'g' I intensely dislike Linux and Unix (10+yrs of working daily with both) but I used it well.

 

[Chicken lights]

I broke the USB port on my work laptop, half of the plug came out stuck in the USB cord. Then tech support gave me a hard time for running windows 7 on my personal laptop. So it looks like I should upgrade soon-ish

Is there any truth to having a dedicated work laptop with no wifi capability, so it can’t be hacked? Or is that an old wives tale?

I probably don’t understand it enough, but I think part of that thinking was running bootleg software, if it couldn’t connect to the internet, the software couldn’t get sent upgrades?

Tech support also said my adapter harness was outdated, but if it works why would I need to replace it? Unless newer versions of windows don’t support the older drivers?

 

[Susquatch]

Is there any truth to having a dedicated work laptop with no wifi capability, so it can’t be hacked? Or is that an old wives tale?

Not a wives tale. If you connect to the Internet by any means (WiFi, Ethernet, USB, aircard, etc etc) you can be hacked.

Used to be only the big guys got hacked. We are all targets today. There are even organizations that teach crooks how to hack in exchange for a cut of the loot.

It's sad - very sad.

 

[JustaDB]

So typical, Apple prevents you from upgrading without even more expense, yet you say Windows blows. And because you don't want to pay, you are stuck with Firefox, bahahahahahaha

It's been years since I was down this road so pardon me if it's not bang on.

I believe 10.6.8 is the last Apple OS that supports 32 bit software, even in emulation mode. I have some 32 bit software that I found essential to my business, with no updates forthcoming. That's not Apple's fault.

Is Windows 11 able to run 32 bit software? I don't know.

I didn't say I was stuck w/ FF. I have no issues with Firefox, it's my main browser. However, I can't upgrade beyond FF48 on 10.6.8. Again, that's not Apple's fault.

Can Windows 11 run FF48? No.

There is no support for FireWire in Mac OS versions beyond 10.6.8. Now, I don't know if that means it simply no longer works, it it works erratically, or what. I wasn't willing to find out. Having a FW 800 card reader at the time that was head, shoulders & butt above anything USB connected at the time was imperative. That's Apple's fault.

Can Windows 11 run FireWire 800? No. Did Windows ever run FireWire? Not that I'm aware.

Look, I get the whole OS update thing, legacy software can't be supported forever, blah, blah, blah. I don't like it, but I get it.
.

 

[gerritv]

I'll do your research
1- Win 11 will run 32 bit apps, unlike Apple, MS tries hard for backward compatibility: https://www.intowindows.com/does-windows-11-support-32-bit-applications/
2- Why on earth would anyone willingly run this as 32 bit, or at all: (Quote from Mozilla page)
"Users on 64-bit Windows who download Firefox can get our 64-bit version by default. That means you get a more secure version of Firefox, one that also crashes a whole lot less. How much less? In our tests so far, 64-bit Firefox reduced crashes by 39% on machines with 4GB of RAM or more." I don't want to polute my PC with Firefox anything so won't verify your claim that Win11 won't run FF48, I see zero reason to run a 7 year old browser. Try Edge, superior to Chrome as well.
3- Firewire support is available for Windows : https://www.studio1productions.com/Articles/Firewire-1.htm

A bit of research would have found solutions

My brother, who worked at ATI on the Apple graphics stuff dumped his old MacMini due to lack of updates, the world passed it by years ago. Poor thing wasn't even heavy enough to be a boat anchor

 

[Susquatch]

I have some 32 bit software that I found essential to my business, with no updates forthcoming. That's not Apple's fault.

However, I can't upgrade beyond FF48 on 10.6.8. Again, that's not Apple's fault.

I would argue that yes, it is Apple's fault. One of the biggest issues with Apple is their insistence that all software running on their platform meets their API, hardware, internal policies, approvals, etc etc etc. It's the Apple way or the highway. Many software companies just can't or won't put up with that kind of bullying. If Apple wasn't such a bully, there would be a lot more availability of both software and hardware.

To be fair, a very good case can be made for why this is all a very good thing. But whether it's good or its bad, Apple is still the reason why the availability isn't always great.

The biggest difference between Windows and Apple has always been the choice between open and closed hardware and software architectures. That's why there are very few Apple clones. Apple makes the computer AND the OS and they have rules and policies about how you interface other equipment and software with that "platform" (my choice of words). Windows itself is a Microsoft product, but anybody can build computers and write software for it.

That's my take on it anyway. I'm sure others will argue, and I'm sure that the nuances have changed.

 

[PaulL]

Loss of backward software compatability is a fact of life.

And it galls me. I have a lovely 2011 iMac that until recently ran just fine as a web browser, which was fine for the cabin. I could even do a bit of hobby development.
But now Apple has cut all support, and I can't upgrade Chrome for the security patches because the development tools no longer work.
So here's a perfectly good piece of hardware that I'm going to wind up recycling.
Yes, I could install linux on it and move it ahead that way. But I don't have the patience for system administration anymore.

 

[PaulL]

The biggest difference between Windows and Apple has always been the choice between open and closed hardware and software architectures

I wish that was still true. Windows has been moving the way of closed software for a while now with their "Windows Store" and an increasing need to have all your software digitally signed for distribution. It's pretty much the same, now.

 

[Susquatch]

And it galls me.

Oh, I didn't say it doesn't gall me too. I prolly hate it at least as much as you do. It is less of an issue on Windows, but it is still an issue.

I just don't have the clout or the energy to be able to do anything about it other than be pissed and move on. God grant me the serenity.......

 

[Susquatch]

I wish that was still true. Windows has been moving the way of closed software for a while now with their "Windows Store" and an increasing need to have all your software digitally signed for distribution. It's pretty much the same, now.

That's a good point. I've half forgiven them for that because i perceive that as a reasonable way to deal with malware.

I prefer to think of it as MSoft protecting me than MSoft screwing me. But I do appreciate that others might feel the opposite about it.

 

[jcdammeyer]

I wish that was still true. Windows has been moving the way of closed software for a while now with their "Windows Store" and an increasing need to have all your software digitally signed for distribution. It's pretty much the same, now.

A good example is the USB signing required to run a driver who's only difference between the signed and unsigned version is a key code purchased for thousands of dollars.
For example the CANUSB dongle had:
VID_0403&PID_FFA8.DeviceDesc="Lawicel CANUSB"
Now it has to be the stock FTDI serial USB VID/PID because the manufacturer of the CANUSB couldn't afford the licensing.
Similarly I owned three PIDs for products I made for clients with one of the PIDs:
VID_0403&PID_C652.DeviceDesc="M9S12-USB245BM"

Now our hardware has to be configured as:
VID_0403&PID_6001.DeviceDesc="USB Serial Port"

So yes. Windows has become more and more closed even as it pretends to be more open source.

Who Writes Linux and Open Source Software? - Slashdot

From an opinion piece in the Register: Aiven, an open source cloud data platform company, recently analyzed who's doing what with GitHub open source code projects. They found that the top open source contributors were all companies — Amazon Web Services, Intel, Red Hat, Google, and Microsoft....

news.slashdot.org

The best thing that could happen but won't is to have the US government break up Microsoft into separate companies selling OS, User Interface, Office Products, Hardware.

After all Apple runs Unix underneath the covers and I suspect pretty soon Windows will be Linux. As shown in the Linux world there are a large number of user interfaces but under the covers they are all Linux.

 

[gerritv]

I wish that was still true. Windows has been moving the way of closed software for a while now with their "Windows Store" and an increasing need to have all your software digitally signed for distribution. It's pretty much the same, now.

you can choose to ignore the 'this is not signed' warning. Not sure about MacOS, I vaguely recall you don't even get that far.
OTOH digital signing means there is some oversight before an app gets into the ecosystem. Some/many/most ppl would benefit from limiting their installs to that to avoid issues they can't deal with.

 

[StevSmar]

If I didn’t use Fusion 360 and sometimes edit photos, I think I’d be happy with just an iPad (with keyboard…).

 

[jcdammeyer]

That's a good point. I've half forgiven them for that because i perceive that as a reasonable way to deal with malware.

I prefer to think of it as MSoft protecting me than MSoft screwing me. But I do appreciate that others might feel the opposite about it.

Much of what allows virus installation into our PCs is because the software has changed to allow more and more marketing and sales stuff. There was a time where downloading a program to run on your PC to show information was considered just plain wrong. Now it's the norm.

 

[Susquatch]

If I didn’t use Fusion 360 and sometimes edit photos, I think I’d be happy with just an iPad (with keyboard…).

More and more I'm happy with just an android smart phone. I use my computer less than 5% of what I use my phone.