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Welcome to Westwood Metalworks, What is he building in there?
- Thread starter Dan Dubeau
- Start date
I was only expressing alternatives based on the perception the you didn't want to drill the beam. I did not know that you wanted a sliding fit.
Again, in the interests of providing you with engineering practice, as opposed to advice, all sliding fits should be equipped with locks that are normally engaged. Preferably double locks. This is done to reduce the chance of a runaway collapse due to a load shift or condition change.
Dan Dubeau
Ultra Member
The uprights are adjustable vertically. I didn't detail those parts, just drew the tube in a tube, but with the material I currently have on hand it'll get to 112" below the beam.
Dan Dubeau
Ultra Member
Locks like forklift locks? Yes, slide for the sake of adjustability is one of the features I'd like to retain. If locks are standard practice (I see the reason), I will try to find a way to include that function. Maybe bolt one end, and just slide the other.
Oh, I thought the uprights were fixed to the horizontal feet. Bet this will get the engineering knickers in a knot. 🙄
Dan Dubeau
Ultra Member
More than currently? 😀
I'm scapping this beam for this project. Will keep my eye out for something more suitable. And will alter the design to suit. Things like a bigger cross brace up top to prevent racking. So for now, this is shelved until I find something more suitable. The cantilever design/proportions didn't really pass the gut test for me either. Will have to mull that over a bit more. Sure it'll work with more counterweight, but then the frame design needs to change, then it's no longer really a nice small gantry for wheeling around the tight shop, and over the bench. I'd like a bit more margin.
Edit: I started this thread as more of a blog post about the projects that blow in and out of the shop, and sometimes in and out of my head. The above gantry is a prime example of that. An idea that gets drawn up, revised, mulled over, and maybe built, or maybe shelved. Maybe it sucked, maybe I'm waiting for cheaper parts/material to make it more feasible, or maybe I don't currently possess the skills or tools to build something, and will work towards it. Way she goes. Stuff like this happens a lot....
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Here too Dan. To be honest, more get shelved than done. I'm ok with that.
If a person is just lifting known loads in known ways around the shop I guess it could be designed to be just enough for those loads. If you can give up the I beam and trolley and use the castors for all movement the whole design could perhaps be changed to something more like the classic gibb boom(?): a triangular footprint with three 360° castors, along these lines. The less angle on the boom the less counter-weighting required. If the lifts are predictable it should be possible to minimize the hand-bombing of counterweights on and off the tail end. If the lift locations and movements are known, another option might be to just have suitable anchor points in the places required and with cable and a small winch, attach the tail end of the boom trolley to those and tighten down with some kind of small winch? A worm drive drum with a simple shaft a cordless drill could be attached to for example?
If a person wanted to get really clever, the "trail" of the "carriage" - it looks like a gun carriage after all - could be made to fold up for storage?
If a person wanted to get really clever, the "trail" of the "carriage" - it looks like a gun carriage after all - could be made to fold up for storage?
Attachments
Or just do what I do. Use the table Z or an adjustable height cabinet or lift to slide stuff onto or off of your work surfaces. Position destination lower than storage to slide on and storage lower than work location to slide off. No back breaking required.
Dan Dubeau
Ultra Member
So today was the first day of driving down into t.o. for trade school for the next two months. One of the things I actually like about driving is the time to ponder, problem solve and think about stuff. Designing things in neuro cad while stuck in traffic makes the drive seem not so bad. I was only about 3 lights up Bathurst from the school when I came up with the solution to my inner shop lifting problems.
Either one of these
Or one of these
Mounted to the corner of my welding table. I'm leaning heavily towards the 20o0lb one, even though the other is $200 cheaper right now.
One of the reasons I need/wanted the gantry in the first place is I need to re-do/remake the base of my welding table to include another cabinet already in the shop to free up some floor space (and shuffle some machines around afterwards). Combining the two just makes sense, but lifting either to complete the marriage makes my back hurt just thinking about it. I thought this would be a perfect excuse to finally build a small gantry I've been wanting but we see how that turned out above...Initial lifting issues aside, once the table gets finished it'll be so damn heavy filled with stuff it'll be a pretty decent counterweight for a table mounted crane. The welding table being in the middle of the room means I'll be able to wheel it around where I need to go should I ever need to pull a mill table or something like that. Plus I'll be able to pick and manipulate weldments on the floor beside, and up onto the welding table when needed. I think it'll be perfect.
Kinda laughing that I didn't think about it before, but hey, I can be a little slow sometimes.....😀
Either one of these
Or one of these
Mounted to the corner of my welding table. I'm leaning heavily towards the 20o0lb one, even though the other is $200 cheaper right now.
One of the reasons I need/wanted the gantry in the first place is I need to re-do/remake the base of my welding table to include another cabinet already in the shop to free up some floor space (and shuffle some machines around afterwards). Combining the two just makes sense, but lifting either to complete the marriage makes my back hurt just thinking about it. I thought this would be a perfect excuse to finally build a small gantry I've been wanting but we see how that turned out above...Initial lifting issues aside, once the table gets finished it'll be so damn heavy filled with stuff it'll be a pretty decent counterweight for a table mounted crane. The welding table being in the middle of the room means I'll be able to wheel it around where I need to go should I ever need to pull a mill table or something like that. Plus I'll be able to pick and manipulate weldments on the floor beside, and up onto the welding table when needed. I think it'll be perfect.
Kinda laughing that I didn't think about it before, but hey, I can be a little slow sometimes.....😀
I vote for the pricier one. I think you'll have better range of motion and the winch is more accessible. You'll probably start tipping the table over before you get to "capacity", gooder safety.
My nephew is staying with us for 2 months as he started his level 1 plumbing class today. He started his apprenticeship 2 1/2 years ago, he didn't think about school for the first year then found out all about wait lists. Is the schooling in Ontario like that too, which trade ?
My nephew is staying with us for 2 months as he started his level 1 plumbing class today. He started his apprenticeship 2 1/2 years ago, he didn't think about school for the first year then found out all about wait lists. Is the schooling in Ontario like that too, which trade ?
Dan Dubeau
Ultra Member
One of the other lifting devices I was imagineering was a bit of a similar idea, just smaller. This one for outside use only towed behind the quad or sxs was based on a log arch for skidding logs out, but with a frame and jack for a boom. Also added a 3pth linkage for pulling my landscape rake with the quad or sxs because my current tractor doesn't run and needs about 2k worth of parts and work, and at the end of the day it's still only a $1500 tractor (1963 Massey 35). I was all set to build this back in Sept, but I got called for a project that kept me pretty busy until Dec, which also got my foot in the door with a good company enough to where I think I'll be buying a new (to me) tractor in the spring/summer if things keep going like they are. I'm finally seeing the light (and catching up) after a career change 2 years ago. It's nice having a job again 😀
This was also another one of those projects that kept growing...... First, I really just need/want a simple log arch for hauling logs out of the bush. From there it became a "what else can I make it do" design exercise....... If I get a new tractor in the spring, I won't need this at except I'll probably still build a simple arch, of a bit different, much simpler design. When used with the boom I was going to flip the ball so the sxs or my truck would be the counterweight, and the hitch would be loaded in the proper direction. Long boom needed more for height than reach, or lifting capacity. It's parameters were designed around being needed to lift the saw head on the carriage when it's built. Again, designed around using materials already here. The design never really got finished before I got busy with work and put it on the backburner. The boom was close, but the 3pth linkage still needed a bit more figuring....
Just another example of what goes on around here..... Really just hoping to buy a new tractor with a loader.....It's the answer to about 60% of my problems, or so I tell the Wife.....She's on board with the new tractor by the way, it's been about 4-5 years of me complaining at least weekly about it. Just need the money tree to sprout....🙁
Dan Dubeau
Ultra Member
Ya, Agree, I think the 2k one is the better choice too. Really most intended loads would be about 2-500lbs, but that extra capacity is a nice safety factor. I really don't think the import stuff has a 5:1 safety factor or even close to it.....I also agree, that I'd probably be table tipping anywhere near capacity of the crane itself especially at any kind of reach. I could always weld some bars to the table legs to hold some 45lb plate weights....(only said that to get the engineers going....😀). I'll give it another month to see if they go on sale in feb before buying one. Much work to do building the table before I need it anyway, so it might pay to be patient.
I'm going for 433a Industrial Mechanic Millwright. For the Millwright stuff here, there was quite a backlog due to covid, but they're starting to get caught up now if not fully. When I made the jump in spring of 2024, they credited me 4000hours (2 years) because I was already a Machinist (Red Seal 429a) with documented experience. That put me behind in schooling compared to hours, so I'm trying to catch up while trying to balance working ($$$) vs school (no $$$). I'm in my 2nd block now of 3, and will come out at the end of Feb with about 6200 for hours, and a nice pay bump to 4th year. I'm hoping that if I work steady enough this year, which looks promising and I can get into my 3rd block in fall 2026, that should allow me to write my CofQ in early 2027 once I hit 8000. That's my "plan" anyway, but we all know how I stick to plans by now lol......
The funnest part though? Going back to school as an apprenticsaurus and doing the apprentice shop projects 😀 Monday mornings is machine shop, and we're making a shaft alignment indicator clamp. I'll take some pics as I go, and maybe toss the print up here in case anybody else wants to make one along with me too.
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A suggestion - since the crane will be bolted to your table, make multiple mounting points that would allow you to bolt it down at the most convenient point. I find having the ability to mount it at the centre of my bench allows me to easily move lathes and milling machine when I re-organize. Even mounted at the centre of a 4ft wide table it will still give you lots of throw and will be more stable.
I also have a shortened version of the PA crane and a 1000 lb motorcycle lift, and a mounting plate welded to the top of the motorcycle lift, in line with the moving handles above the hydraulic cylinder (done by a very skilled certified red seal welder). For medium weight stuff, I can bolt the crane to the top of the lift and have a mildly-compromised engine hoist, as long as the item being lifted is inboard of the ends of the lift legs. The whole mess disassembles and is stored under my workbench.
I also have a shortened version of the PA crane and a 1000 lb motorcycle lift, and a mounting plate welded to the top of the motorcycle lift, in line with the moving handles above the hydraulic cylinder (done by a very skilled certified red seal welder). For medium weight stuff, I can bolt the crane to the top of the lift and have a mildly-compromised engine hoist, as long as the item being lifted is inboard of the ends of the lift legs. The whole mess disassembles and is stored under my workbench.
Dan Dubeau
Ultra Member
Good idea about multiple mounting points. I've flip/flopped about drilling a grid of holes all over my table top 1/2 plate for years. I'd rather either make new slat top, or another idea im working on so I am hesitant to start drilling a bunch of holes yet because I want to use that plate for stock to build some other machines.
I like that idea too Dan. I recently got a steel table with a 2x6 wood core from @Martin w. He and @CWret and I have been discussing adding a thicker steel top to it to prevent wood burning, and wheels to turn it into a fabrication and welding table. I had planned to add a grid of drilled & tapped holes to it anyway. Adding a small lift to the table like the pickup truck lift would add functionality and seems like a great idea. Personally, I favour something like this one you had suggested:
It already has better balance than the other lift, and perhaps it could be mounted anywhere, but I still favour a center location for balance. And I wouldn't want it this big either. A ton is overkill. For anything that big, I have forks, an overhead gantry crane, and an engine lift. For my needs, it only needs to be maybe 500 pounds? And perhaps with a 250 pound counterbalance?
Dan Dubeau
Ultra Member
I don't mind the center mount, but that's usually where I pile stuff......(See, I'm a piler too).
140mower
Don
You could put a little rotating shelf just above the bearing for the upper stack up area...... 😎
Dan Dubeau
Ultra Member
Call it the Lazy Danny?