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very stiff tailstock quill

a smooth sliding quill makes me very happy - thanks all for your help and good advice to put the wedge away

To the best of my measuring skills, there was no bend in the quill, and no taper from one end to the other, but the centre was about a thou smaller in diameter than the ends. However, my measuring skills need some work, because when I inserted the quill backwards, it slid in nicely about 1/2 ways.

The locating groove cut into the top of the quill had very sharp corners - I ground them off. There was a small score inside the casting (from those sharp corners in the quill's locating groove) - I sanded them out with 400 grit paper. I also lightly polished the inner end of the quill so it would slide more freely into the tailstock casting.

After a very thorough cleaning, and light coating of way oil on all sliding surfaces and threads it is sliding smoothly without detectable wobble. Now, it's time to drill some holes.

Thanks again to everyone for your help.
 
Degen said:
Couple of suggestions.

1. Measure to OD of the quill, its not tapered?
2. Reverse the quill insertion if possible, just to check fit.
3. Check the threads on the quill assembly, could be a problem there.

I doubt the casting compressed. The only way to do that is compress it without the quill installed.
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thanks - the quill was dull in the middle, possibly where it had been repeatedly, over squeezed by the lock - every fastener used to lock/unlock anything on this lathe has rounded corners, deformed washers, grooved castings, etc. - I suspect the PO gave his inner guerilla free rein to make sure everything was good and tight and then added a bit more. This the used lathe that came with a broken cross slide leadscrew nut due to overtightening.
 
Susquatch said:
The first thing I would do is take it apart and clean it really well! That old shipping grease can varnish and harden. It needs to be completely removed and degreased end to end. You might be surprised at the result.

The second thing I would do is go and buy a GOOD DTI. A Mitutoyo or Interapid or..... No cheapie - this is not a place to save money. Anybody who uses a lathe needs a DTI. Yes, a dial indicator will work, but not nearly as well as a DTI. Just go get one. You can thank me for spending your money so wisely later......;)

Then I would do as others have suggested to check your quill.

Next I would check your quill fit using Prussian blue. NOT Dykem. Just insert it till it starts to bind, then remove and look for the interference. This will tell you if it's a burr or a bend, or just too tight.

Basically, I advise going slowly and methodically. Learn what your real problem is before you fix it. Fixing other things before you find and fix the real problem is not a good way to deal with it.

Honing can be in your mind, but as a last ditch distant action - if at all.
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thanks - this mis-adventure started with me disassembling the tailstock to extricate the spring and ball from a damaged ball-oiler. While apart, I cleaned everything with varsol in the parts cleaner and re-oiled everything during reassembly.

I bought some Prussian Blue today, but didn't actually use it. My google must be off today as I couldn't find any youtubes demonstrating its use

A DTI is on my list. Hmm, it's my B'Day in a couple weeks; maybe I need to splurge on a B'Day present for myself.
 
PeterT said:
I would highly discourage you from altering the quill or block without eliminating other sources of friction or else you risk creating more problems for yourself. My 14x40 started to develop some intermittent slop & stickiness. The issue was the POS retention key and its fit within the quill slot. I've seen examples of lathes which are even cruder, not a sliding shoe but a set screw which can chowder up the keyway slot, raised burrs etc.
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I have the rude and crude version - just a set screw with lower threads worn by the keyway slot - I should try to make a sliding shoe like the one in your pictures
 
curmudgeon said:
thanks - this mis-adventure started with me disassembling the tailstock to extricate the spring and ball from a damaged ball-oiler. While apart, I cleaned everything with varsol in the parts cleaner and re-oiled everything during reassembly.

I bought some Prussian Blue today, but didn't actually use it. My google must be off today as I couldn't find any youtubes demonstrating its use

A DTI is on my list. Hmm, it's my B'Day in a couple weeks; maybe I need to splurge on a B'Day present for myself.
Click to expand...
I scored an Interapid 312B-2 with all the mounts etc. on eBay for $75. Couldn't believe my luck.
 
curmudgeon said:
thanks - the quill was dull in the middle, possibly where it had been repeatedly, over squeezed by the lock - every fastener used to lock/unlock anything on this lathe has rounded corners, deformed washers, grooved castings, etc. - I suspect the PO gave his inner guerilla free rein to make sure everything was good and tight and then added a bit more. This the used lathe that came with a broken cross slide leadscrew nut due to overtightening.
Click to expand...
Shame, this is one of those purchases unless it was free (even then) might have been good to walk away from.

I had worn fasteners on my Logan lathe but that was after how many owners and years of use.
 
It is hard to walk away from what is thought to be a good deal. I found with cars/trucks, motorcycles, try to look at it 3 different times, at least a few hours apart and with a good friend if possible. Hoowever in these times even finding what your looking for or close to it, for a bearable price means you better jump on it now. Keep in mind if it don' run, was working good when parked, stored, worked before moving, it better be "a real good deal." As experience gained, and a sad scrape pile grows.
 
curmudgeon said:
I bought some Prussian Blue today, but didn't actually use it. My google must be off today as I couldn't find any youtubes demonstrating its use
Click to expand...

It's not rocket science. It's just very thin paint. You apply it very sparingly with any applicator - a small brush, a QTip, or even a piece of Kleenex. Let it dry, and then test fit the parts. It's magic lies in the fact that it is very very thin so it doesn't add appreciably to the fit clearance. You can get it in other colours than blue for better contrast on some materials. It can be easily thinned if need be.
 
thestelster said:
And it's funny, Starrett calls this a Dial Test Indicator!
Click to expand...

I routinely use that particular Starrett Indicator to check the bedding fit between a steel bar and a wooden handle. In the photo below, the attachment screws are alternately tightened and loosened individually to detect stress in the fit. Any measureable movement at the front of the handle as the screws are tightened and loosened is magnified by the distance ratio and indicates stress in the bedding.


20230402_104236.jpg
 
thestelster said:
Yes, there's a certain amount if flex, but it doesn't matter, I just need to have zero run-out front and back.
Click to expand...

Well well well! Somebody has been busy noodling a big problem for all of us who do that kind of stuff....... I really like it Stelster! Very innovative and well done!

I realize that's just a demo photo, but I'd love to see you try that on a real setup complete with spiders. In particular I'd like to know how repeatable it is. You and I have discussed the Grizzly rod method in the past. Hopefully you remember my concerns. They would apply equally here too.

Perhaps we could start a thread dedicated to this subject. With my Moderator powers, I could keep it aligned with forum policies.

I certainly agree, in most dial test indicator setups, the absolute accuracy doesn't matter. What matters most is being able to detect extremely small differences. I agree with @PeterT , in this case, Starrett named the device correctly. The reason I think so is that it's an indirect relative measurement as opposed to an absolute one. I very rarely use dial test indicators as absolute measurements. Usually they ride the surface at a slight angle anyway and I have a collection of long needles I use for various purposes that reduce the resolution as @PeterT describes.
 
Susquatch said:
I realize that's just a demo photo, but I'd love to see you try that on a real setup complete with spiders.
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I will be doing that in the next couple months. I have to sleeve a pair of shotgun tubes into the chamber section of a double (sxs) English shotgun.

I made my taper turning attachment to do another aspect of the project.
 
Susquatch said:
It's not rocket science. It's just very thin paint. You apply it very sparingly with any applicator - a small brush, a QTip, or even a piece of Kleenex. Let it dry, and then test fit the parts. It's magic lies in the fact that it is very very thin so it doesn't add appreciably to the fit clearance. You can get it in other colours than blue for better contrast on some materials. It can be easily thinned if need be.
Click to expand...
I have prussian blue but always seem to reach for the black felt marker. I used the blue once so far for setting up contact pattern on a differential gearset.
 
Ironman said:
I have prussian blue but always seem to reach for the black felt marker. I used the blue once so far for setting up contact pattern on a differential gearset.
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I like the felt marker too. But it doesn't always stick and leave a good stain. Neither does prussian blue. Mine is alcohol based, but some are mineral oil based (I just ordered some Permatex based on input I got from @thestelster.) I think it's good to have a variety of methods available for different environments and surfaces.
 
Susquatch said:
It's not rocket science. It's just very thin paint. You apply it very sparingly with any applicator - a small brush, a QTip, or even a piece of Kleenex. Let it dry, and then test fit the parts.
Click to expand...

Prussian blue doesn't dry, its kind of the consistency of oil paint. Are you thinking layout fluid? As blue is core to scraping, I've spend lots of time looking like I butchered a Smurf.... its messy and on parts you are dissassembly (vs printing when scraping) it can smear making the reading less clear. Thats why for fitting like this I like the marker.
 
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Mcgyver said:
Prussian blue doesn't dry, its kind of like oil paint that doesn't dry. Are you thinking layout fluid? As blue is core to scraping, I've spend lots of time looking like I butchered a Smurf.... its messy and on parts you are dissassembly (vs printing when scraping) it can smear making the reading less clear. Thats why for fitting like this I like the marker.
Click to expand...

Too funny! Just had this same discussion with @thestelster off line.

My prussian blue is alcohol based and it definitely dries. His is Permatex brand which is non-drying mineral oil based. I ordered some of the Permatex because I can see the advantages vs mine for some applications.

No, I was not thinking of layout fluids like Dykem (I already said not to use Dykem in my first post). Layout fluid might work for some cases, but it's often too thick and can't be used for precision fits.

As per my previous post, I think its good to have a variety of methods up your sleeve like black magic marker because not everything sticks well to different surfaces.
 
Mcgyver said:
Prussian blue doesn't dry, its kind of the consistency of oil paint. Are you thinking layout fluid? As blue is core to scraping, I've spend lots of time looking like I butchered a Smurf.... its messy and on parts you are dissassembly (vs printing when scraping) it can smear making the reading less clear. Thats why for fitting like this I like the marker.
Click to expand...

Can't stop thinking of you as a smurf.....

I know the feeling well......

The drying ink I use is often used as a resin dye. It is potent stuff. I dilute it heavily.

I have another prussian blue powder I use to die the water in my pond. The pond grows string Algae in it when the summer sun is high. It's an acre in area and about 6 ft deep when the water is high and 3 ft during a drought. I put prussian blue powder into it to reduce the amount of sunlight available to grow Algae. 1 litre of powder will dye the whole pond a nice deep blue and won't hurt the fish, turtles, frogs, or the water lilies. The dye is available at pond supply places. If you spread the powder in a breeze you are a smurf for a month!

I have mixed small quantities to put into my field tiles to check drainage. It's amazing stuff!

I've never tried it in the shop, but I bet a miniscule amount of that prussian blue powder in some water or alcohol would be just as effective as the ink. Summer is coming. Next time I dye the pond I'll set a little aside to try in the shop!
 
Degen said:
Dykem and layout fluid dry and are generally alcohol based, proper Prussian Blue does not dry.
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"Proper" is just one man's definition or understanding. In my opinion, proper prussian blue is not water, oil, drying, non-drying, or any other such property. Those are all just various ways in which it is mixed and sold. If we are gunna be purists about it, "Proper" (pure) prussian blue is a dark blue powder pigment produced by oxidation of ferrocyanide salts. Like many of the other primary paint dyes it is very potent stuff and is easily mixed and used for various purposes.
 
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