Tig settings

[Doggggboy]

I'm trying to butt weld some 20 gauge cold rolled sheet metal for the Datsun and not having much luck.
This is my first attempt at tig plus I'm old, half blind and a slow learner so bear with me.
I am using an Everlast 211si welder.
I have cleaned the coupons by grinding and then wiping with brakekleen.
I have ground and cleaned the tungsten.
I have the ground connected directly to the coupon.
The joint is as tight as I can get, almost no gap.
I am not using any filler wire at this point.
With amps at 39, ( 1 amp per thousandth inch as recommended) , I may as well be using a hole punch. It gets better as I reduce amperage but anything lower than 23 gives me no penetration.
I am using a pedal.
I had the argon set at 25cfh but that seemed to almost be blowing the puddle away if I was lucky enough to form one. I've worked my way down to 15 cfh with no improvement.
I have a 1 second upslope and 2 second downslope on the argon.
Occasionally the arc just yeets off the side 1/2 inch or so. I'm assuming that is contamination on the tungsten.
I am using 1/16 ceriated and grinding the tungsten on a fresh flap disk with the grind going axially (while holding my breath)
What I'm doing wrong may be a lengthy list, so am I doing anything correctly?

 

[Susquatch]

I am a zero talent welder. I'm especially bad with sheet metal. So take this for what is worth.

I have had some success in your situation by stitching. No attempt to make a puddle at all. Just quick stabs at the joint to stitch it. Then another a few inches away, and then again, etc etc. Start over when done right beside the first one and then the second, etc etc. Just keep doing this until you have a continuous bead of stitches. It looks like a railroad track but it works for me and my very poor skill set. Once done, my welds have held. I've never been successful on sheet metal any other way.

 

[Doggggboy]

Many and numerous attempts at stitching have been done.
I can stitch with a mig okayish.
The problem is I can't seem to get the settings right to stitch with the tig.
I either get a hole or nothing.
If I'm trying to run a short length of weld,
occasionally I'll get this but never for long. Usually I'll get this

 

[Former Member]

Calling @Proxule to the white courtesy phone.

 

[Tom O]

When I did some panel patching I struck the arc on the filler wire to prevent burn through then added as needed.

 

[Doggggboy]

When I did some panel patching I struck the arc on the filler wire to prevent burn through then added as needed.

I've tried that as well. The filler just burns back too fast. I've tried 023 and 035 mig wire as well as a twisted double strand of both as well as 1/16 tig rod, all with no success. I'll run off another batch of coupons again tomorrow and hope that, as with many other things, practice makes adequate.

 

[CWret]

I’m not much of a welder - but here goes.
Most everything you said sounds good to me.

It looks like contamination.
Clean clean clean - use acetone first (not brake cleaner) and then wire brush it. If you wire brush first, the crap gets into the wire brush marks and gets stuck there. Bad news.
This is extremely important for aluminum but also for steel too.

 

[Proxule]

Your finished welds looks mighty porous and dirty, Or perhaps its a visual of overheating.
For such thin material I often utilize the pulse setting. Do you have this function?

You say you have some 023 hard-wire, Why not try and MIG stitch it?

I would likely struggle with 20ga steel too!
Practice makes perfect - Although I am curious if you stumbled on something obvious?!

 

[Jswain]

Use filler wire and pulse overtop of it like the laywire technique, either with the pedal or pulse settings on the machine. Will have to increase your amps likely. You are blowing away the metal and not replacing it with anything

The more filler you ad the better it will cool the puddle, so I'd skip the MIG wire and try the 1/16 tig rod first. Enough amps that when you zap it quick it melts into the base metal, then move ahead zap zap zap

 

[phaxtris]

20g steel butt weld would be very tough, any scale or contamination at all inwould screw you, I would probably be fighting it as well

39 amps for a butt weld is probably way way high, the last time I remember doing similar work, 24g ss autogenous edge weld, the machine was running below 10amps, with the next size down from 1/16 (.040 i think is your next size down) tungsten

What your trying is not easy, you machine may not even be able to start the arc cold enough anywhere near that edge without blowing things away

 

[Doggggboy]

I’m not much of a welder - but here goes.
Most everything you said sounds good to me.

It looks like contamination.
Clean clean clean - use acetone first (not brake cleaner) and then wire brush it. If you wire brush first, the crap gets into the wire brush marks and gets stuck there. Bad news.
This is extremely important for aluminum but also for steel too.

OK.
I've been using brakekleen as it is mostly acetone, but I can switch.
I've also been grinding and then cleaning. I'll switch to a new wheel and change the order of operations.

 

[Former Member]

Sorry if I named the wrong member, just waking up from a long needed map.

 

[Tom O]

I’ve used mig wire as filler by twisting a couple lengths in the drill to make a smaller filler rod.

 

[Doggggboy]

Your finished welds looks mighty porous and dirty, Or perhaps its a visual of overheating.
For such thin material I often utilize the pulse setting. Do you have this function?

You say you have some 023 hard-wire, Why not try and MIG stitch it?

I would likely struggle with 20ga steel too!
Practice makes perfect - Although I am curious if you stumbled on something obvious?!

This is going to show how little I know about welding, but I'm not sure if it does or not.
Might be time to read the manual. Edit ( pretty sure it doesn't)
No particular reason to try tig over mig, other than another car guy I know told me he preferred tig over mig as the welds were softer and easier to dolly back into shape.
The only obvious thing so far is that I don't know what I'm doing yet.

 

[Doggggboy]

Use filler wire and pulse overtop of it like the laywire technique, either with the pedal or pulse settings on the machine. Will have to increase your amps likely. You are blowing away the metal and not replacing it with anything

The more filler you ad the better it will cool the puddle, so I'd skip the MIG wire and try the 1/16 tig rod first. Enough amps that when you zap it quick it melts into the base metal, then move ahead zap zap zap

I'll give it a shot.
Pew Pew Pew

 

[Doggggboy]

20g steel butt weld would be very tough, any scale or contamination at all inwould screw you, I would probably be fighting it as well

39 amps for a butt weld is probably way way high, the last time I remember doing similar work, 24g ss autogenous edge weld, the machine was running below 10amps, with the next size down from 1/16 (.040 i think is your next size down) tungsten

What your trying is not easy, you machine may not even be able to start the arc cold enough anywhere near that edge without blowing things away

Occasionally my arc starts where I think I'm aiming it, doesn't blow through, forms a puddle in the joint and allows me to move it forward.
Occasionally.
I know one of my problems is a lack of depth perception due to the blind eye. I honestly can't tell how far the tungsten is from the base metal. I've had some luck with using the edge of the cup as a base and pushing it forward into the weld. Either that or touching the tungsten to the workpiece, pulling back a touch and then firing the arc, but that may be contributing to the contamination problem.. I have high frequency start on the welder.

 

[phaxtris]

Occasionally my arc starts where I think I'm aiming it, doesn't blow through, forms a puddle in the joint and allows me to move it forward.
Occasionally.
I know one of my problems is a lack of depth perception due to the blind eye. I honestly can't tell how far the tungsten is from the base metal. I've had some luck with using the edge of the cup as a base and pushing it forward into the weld. Either that or touching the tungsten to the workpiece, pulling back a touch and then firing the arc, but that may be contributing to the contamination problem.. I have high frequency start on the welder.

Well that's good that your machine is capable of starting the arc cold enough, some machines take a good bit of amperage to start the arc with high freq

It's mostly going to be a practice thing, I would set your self up for success from the get go, shade 9 in the helmet, .040 tungsten, sounds like your doing a good job of cleaning, just make sure there is no mill scale...that'll cause you major problems with 20g....and it seems counter intuitive, but the bigger filler (1/16) will probabaly be easier....every dip cools down the puddle a lot better than a mig wire does

And, the weld will probably look like crap, it is what it is, your grinding it off anyhow so don't get to worked up about it

 

[jorogi]

I think you'll find Ryan is right on the money. Use big filler rod and maybe practice a bit on heavier material first.
How do you get to Carnegie Hall, practice, practice, practice.

 

[Doggggboy]

Well that's good that your machine is capable of starting the arc cold enough, some machines take a good bit of amperage to start the arc with high freq

It's mostly going to be a practice thing, I would set your self up for success from the get go, shade 9 in the helmet, .040 tungsten, sounds like your doing a good job of cleaning, just make sure there is no mill scale...that'll cause you major problems with 20g....and it seems counter intuitive, but the bigger filler (1/16) will probabaly be easier....every dip cools down the puddle a lot better than a mig wire does

And, the weld will probably look like crap, it is what it is, your grinding it off anyhow so don't get to worked up about

Thanks Ryan.
That's encouraging.
I've got 2 more sheets of steel waiting to get clipped into coupons and a mostly full tank of Argon.

 

[DPittman]

I know one of my problems is a lack of depth perception due to the blind eye. I honestly can't tell how far the tungsten is from the base metal.

That would make any sort of welding very very difficult.