Tecnico's Shop Window

[Tecnico]

I’m always making something in the shop so I thought I’d open a window so people could peer in and see what mischief I’m up to.

Starting point:

I received a nice Vertex BS-01 dividing head and an equally nice 6” Burnerd 4 jaw chuck with my First mill. I also received a grotty looking 3 jaw mystery chuck with replaceable jaw inserts but it’s going to sit on a shelf for a while longer, this posting is about a backing plate to join the Vertex & Burnerd but it will also accommodate the mystery chuck.

The big undiscovered country in this for me was cutting the 1-1/8 – 12 internal thread that would be needed to fit the Vertex. I got some good advice from members a while back and I was left with a suggestion, show how I did it because there was a little twist that’s apparently unusual for threading.

I prepped the rough HRS round stock on the mill and laid out the critical hole positions before digging into the internal threads. I was very conservative about the threading operation and I chose to use a hand crank to do the turning. This is one of the tricks the UK Myford users use to carefully cut threads in tight places.

Basically the operation is leave the half nuts engaged and wind the tool in and out of the bore by hand (backing off for clearance between cuts) until the thread is the desired size. Makes for very good control up to a face etc. as well. I’ve also used it for that. You can of course disengage the half nuts etc. but it's simpler to leave it engaged.

Unplug your machine if you try this.

​

The crank is a simple affair with a set of complementary, tapered pieces which wedge into the (tiny) spindle bore on the Myford. It gets tightened with a threaded rod up the center of the shaft and driven by the big chrome knob. For trivia, the crank “hand hold” knob is a ball bearing idler roller from a VW 1.8T timing belt system left over from a routine belt change. I can’t seem to throw things like that out because they can come in handy LOL! The sleeve was a (successful) test piece.

​

In this case the threading tool is a boring bar carrying a shop ground HSS tool and I used a 29.5 degree setup. Note the taper turning attachment at the back of the lathe bed, it’ll come up at a later date.

Final product: the 6” Burnerd on the Vertex DH, making a doodad for another project.

 

[Susquatch]

Basically the operation is leave the half nuts engaged and wind the tool in and out of the bore by hand (backing off for clearance between cuts) until the thread is the desired size. Makes for very good control up to a face etc. as well.

Now THIS.............

IS SOLID GOLD!!!

I LOVE IT!

Gunna be making myself one of those cranks. Might look at putting it on the input shaft instead of the spindle though.

It is just possible you also saved me the cost of a 3ph motor and VFD for my lathe too cuz this is the main reason I wanted that!

You better lock the doors for the next week lest some big ugly hairy guy drop in to kiss you!

 

[Tecnico]

Now THIS.............

IS SOLID GOLD!!!

I LOVE IT!

Gunna be making myself one of those cranks. Might look at putting it on the input shaft instead of the spindle though.

It is just possible you also saved me the cost of a 3ph motor and VFD for my lathe too cuz this is the main reason I wanted that!

You better lock the doors for the next week lest some big ugly hairy guy drop in to kiss you!

LOL!!!!!!!

You're welcome to visit any time but KEEP YOUR DISTANCE!

Just one thought, eyeball the angle of the split carefully, I don't think I get as much grip as I'd like with my MkI version.

D

 

[Susquatch]

Just one thought, eyeball the angle of the split carefully, I don't think I get as much grip as I'd like with my MkI version.

Not sure what you mean.....

If I mount it on my spindle, I have a spider so no worries about it slipping at all.

 

[TorontoBuilder]

I’m always making something in the shop so I thought I’d open a window so people could peer in and see what mischief I’m up to.

Starting point:

I received a nice Vertex BS-01 dividing head and an equally nice 6” Burnerd 4 jaw chuck with my First mill. I also received a grotty looking 3 jaw mystery chuck with replaceable jaw inserts but it’s going to sit on a shelf for a while longer, this posting is about a backing plate to join the Vertex & Burnerd but it will also accommodate the mystery chuck.

The big undiscovered country in this for me was cutting the 1-1/8 – 12 internal thread that would be needed to fit the Vertex. I got some good advice from members a while back and I was left with a suggestion, show how I did it because there was a little twist that’s apparently unusual for threading.

I prepped the rough HRS round stock on the mill and laid out the critical hole positions before digging into the internal threads. I was very conservative about the threading operation and I chose to use a hand crank to do the turning. This is one of the tricks the UK Myford users use to carefully cut threads in tight places.

Basically the operation is leave the half nuts engaged and wind the tool in and out of the bore by hand (backing off for clearance between cuts) until the thread is the desired size. Makes for very good control up to a face etc. as well. I’ve also used it for that. You can of course disengage the half nuts etc. but it's simpler to leave it engaged.

Unplug your machine if you try this.

​

The crank is a simple affair with a set of complementary, tapered pieces which wedge into the (tiny) spindle bore on the Myford. It gets tightened with a threaded rod up the center of the shaft and driven by the big chrome knob. For trivia, the crank “hand hold” knob is a ball bearing idler roller from a VW 1.8T timing belt system left over from a routine belt change. I can’t seem to throw things like that out because they can come in handy LOL! The sleeve was a (successful) test piece.

​

In this case the threading tool is a boring bar carrying a shop ground HSS tool and I used a 29.5 degree setup. Note the taper turning attachment at the back of the lathe bed, it’ll come up at a later date.

Final product: the 6” Burnerd on the Vertex DH, making a doodad for another project.

that's one sweet looking lathe

 

[Tecnico]

that's one sweet looking lathe

It is indeed a nice piece of precision hardware even if it has some quaint British quirks like Whitworth fasteners. It has the old school charm of a piece of vintage hardware designed for serious machining on a smaller scale. They are highly regarded by the hobbyist crowd in the UK.

I was lucky, I came by it and a ton of genuine Myford accessories as a time capsule from 1988, most still in the original wrapper and covered in Cosmoline. Sometimes you get lucky!

D

 

[TorontoBuilder]

It is indeed a nice piece of precision hardware even if it has some quaint British quirks like Whitworth fasteners. It has the old school charm of a piece of vintage hardware designed for serious machining on a smaller scale. They are highly regarded by the hobbyist crowd in the UK.

I was lucky, I came by it and a ton of genuine Myford accessories as a time capsule from 1988, most still in the original wrapper and covered in Cosmoline. Sometimes you get lucky!

D

I wish my chipmaster lathe came to me that way.

It will be a long haul to get my lathe looking so good.

 

[Tecnico]

Not sure what you mean.....

If I mount it on my spindle, I have a spider so no worries about it slipping at all.

OK, I don't know what you mean by the spider.

What I was trying to say was the split angle of the two pieces should be adjusted to give more mechanical advantage to the wedging action thus a tighter fit in the spindle bore. I sometimes have to re-tighten the knob to keep the crank from slipping.

D

 

[Susquatch]

OK, I don't know what you mean by the spider.

You explained yours - thank you.

I guess it's only fair that it's my turn now! LOL!

A rear spider is a device on the back side of the lathe that allows you to hold and center a long part that extends through the spindle front to back. Typically, the spindle is drilled and tapped with 4 holes at right angles. The four screws are called jack screws and act like a four jaw chuck. They allow you to dial in a long part so that it runs axially concentric with the spindle.

My own spindle sticks out about 3 inches and uses 4 screws. You can see the threaded holes at the top of the attached photo. It would be easy for me to make a sleeve that fits my spindle perfectly and is locked in via my spider screws.



I've also seen spiders that fit inside spindles that don't protrude from the gear box.

 

[John Conroy]

My spindle has a 53mm X 1.5mm thread on the od. I made up a spider/sleeve with a matching ID thread. It can also hold a shop built hub and flange with a degree wheel for chuck indexing.

 

[Dan Dubeau]

Nice Super 7. You're is much cleaner than mine.

I need to make a list of things to make (like the crank handle) for mine, so that when I go out to the shop and wander around wondering what to do, I can start chipping away at nice easy projects like this. A degree wheel, and indexing pin would also be handy.

 

[Susquatch]

My spindle has a 53mm X 1.5mm thread on the od. I made up a spider/sleeve with a matching ID thread. It can also hold a shop built hub and flange with a degree wheel for chuck indexing.

If you guys keep showing me stuff like this I'm gunna have to quit the forum! (quit clapping everyone - that's not funny....) I'll never have time to get any work done if all I ever do is make tools for my tools!

Another fantastic idea John. I've seen lots of guys use a front Indexer. From time to time I've even rigged up a pointer/indexer. But your design is... DROP DEAD GORGEOUS!!!! I LOVE IT.

I'll just need to combine this with @Tecnico 's crank and the rear mounted rpm sensor I'm already working on...... and and and and........ Boy, it's getting awful busy at the back side of my lathe. Who would ever have thunk it!

 

[Ironman]

Aaah, Sasquatch... your spider is normally known as a cat head. I know, that makes as much sense as calling it a spider.

 

[Susquatch]

Aaah, Sasquatch... your spider is normally known as a cat head. I know, that makes as much sense as calling it a spider.

Yes, it is often called a cat's head. A rose by any other name smells the same.

I often make the distinction that cats heads are on the front and spiders are on the rear. But I'm no purist and am quite guilty of talking about front and rear spiders and rear and front cats heads regularly. I think it also depends on your focus. Some areas of work prefer one term over the other.

Wanna get even more confused? Most of the cats heads in my field of activity have 8 screws. Surely with 8 legs, a spider would be a closer analogy. But nope, the 8 screw versions are almost always called cats heads....!

 

[Tecnico]

Oh I see now, a spider, not one of these spiders:

I don't have to worry about aligning things in my spindle, the hole is about the size of a toothpick so not much will actually pass through it.

Nice indexing setup @John Conroy

I'll never have time to get any work done if all I ever do is make tools for my tools!

LOL! Did I mention that my S.O. zinged me one day, saying about the same thing.....

D

 

[Tecnico]

Next Project: A DRO for my Myford Super 7 lathe.

This kinda goes hand in hand with a DRO on my First mill, the selection process for components and display apply to both.

To start off, the scales are about the same from any supplier because they all offer magnetic & glass (“linear”) in large and slim sizes with the same resolution options so the choice would be driven by cost. The other distinguisher would be the display. My scales are Ditron, they worked out to be the best price with suitable size & performance.

From what I can tell, all far-east manufacturers of the displays have the same basics of functions like centering & hole patterns etc. (maybe the same ICs/software/displays re-badged?) and have some limited graphic display ability in their upper end models. For me, one of the down sides is that their controls are mechanical membrane or snap switches.

I wonder about their longevity and I have one poor example in my kitchen and have seen others on other machines. If it’s mechanical it can wear out. The snap buttons on my dishwasher are falling apart and are patched up with tape and it’s a “good” brand name. When I worked for a manufacturer of quick service restaurant equipment all the controls were capacitive, no snap buttons. A DRO zero button will get many more cycles so I look at something that’s built to a price point for a small market as a risk (less product reliability design effort).

Another down side is the long hardware support channels back to Asia even if there’s a North American presence.

The counterpoint to this is the option I chose. I decided to go with a Yuriy’s Toys TouchDRO. The two big upsides I see from this is it is based on an Android tablet and the software appears to be more user friendly. It provides the user with a nice intuitive display, particularly when working with programmed points when milling but I’m getting ahead of myself. Anyhow, the software appears to cover the utilities offered by the far-east displays plus more. The developer (Yuriy) is accessible & responsive but on the flip side he’s one person although he seems committed and dedicated. He developed the system for his own use first and his network encouraged him to share with others which led to TouchDRO. He sponsors and participates in a channel on Hobby-machinist.com.

The manual is HTML on his web site but when printed double sided it is almost half an inch thick!

If an android tablet can stand up in a consumer market place then it should be robust enough to not wear out in a hobby shop application, particularly because the keys are soft keys on a touch screen. I am anxious to see how well it performs in the shop, especially since some have doubts about the touch screen. So far so good.

One advantage of the TouchDRO platform for the hobby user is that the display can link to multiple machines (not at the same time of course) so for me I bought one display that I will move between lathe and mill, saving the cost of one display. You flip one switch in the app and select your Bluetooth connection and you have you lathe or mill DRO. All your settings are saved and come up when you select your machine. I won't be leaving it in the unheated when not in use shop where the mill is located.

Since the lathe is more or less done let’s start with it. Like I said, it’s a Myford Super 7 and in my case I have the Taper Turn Attachment (TTA) and I’d like to keep that capability so a little head scratching was in order. What I came up with looks kind of like this:

​

I was able to keep the TTA by making a 2-1/2 x ¼” spacer channel from a piece of square tubing. It moves the TTA further away from the lathe bed to give room for the scale. The TTA still seems to have enough travel if the link is moved to the outer T slot on the cross slide. I specifically placed the cross slide magnetic tape groove to one side to clear the TTA link and that seems to have worked out well. Only two new holes were drilled/tapped to install all the components of the DRO.

The side I cut out of the square tube sprung an absurd amount as I cut it out so there had to be a lot of residual stress in it from forming & welding:

​

I needed a good, parallel surface on the sides of the tube so I face milled both sides. The holes allow for multiple mounting positions for the TTA. Some of the scale mounting holes go in the channel too. In hindsight I would have made the channel the whole length of the scale/lathe bed rather than thinking just about the TTA.

The scales mount on stand-offs to clear the channel mount (1/4-26!) fasteners:

Scale in place with the read head bracket mounted and TTA installed.

​

For the Z Axis read head (and the X axis) mounting I made a plate that uses 2 of the carriage retainer strip bolts for mounting and mounts below the retainer strip. Longer (1/4-26) bolts were needed.

​

I mounted the X-Axis tape offset to one side to leave room for the TTA attachment.

X-Axis read head mounted:

TTA & X-Axis extension together:

TouchDRO uses a USB powered electronics board to power the scales and convert the output before relaying it to the tablet via Bluetooth, you can get the boards fully built, tested and with 3D printed enclosures or as U-solder kits for the board. You can also roll your own interface via an Arduino or similar. I don’t wrangle electrons so I chose the U-solder kit and bought off the shelf Hammond boxes to house the boards.

The D9 connector and board mount standoff positions were the first thing I used the DRO for. It’s hard to see in the photo but notice the datum point display in the DRO graphics window, I’m hovering over one of the datums in the photo and it is highlighted. When you approach the datum TouchDRO has a “magnetic” function that highlights it and displays the distance to the datum. Very nice to make sure you know which datum you are approaching. Made machining the boxes much easier than twirling handles, counting turns & accommodating back lash.

You can pre-program unlimited datums and you can group and save them and unclutter the display by only turning on the group you want to work on at the time. Very nice, it would be better if you could import them from an Excel sheet or DXF too…… You can take your tablet to your CAD station or easy chair to input your datums, no need to be connected to your machine.

Machining the Hammond enclosures:

​

The finished product:

Last part, I cobbled up a temporary(?) slide-in tablet mount using available organic materials on a swing-away arm to provide access for belt speed changes etc. That’ll probably fine for the lathe but I think I may want a rotating (tablet) mount for the mill so maybe I’ll use a commercial mount. I have something on order from AliEx to try out.

​

Time to get some experience with my new DRO as well as complete the mill installation!

D

 

[TorontoBuilder]

Next Project: A DRO for my Myford Super 7 lathe.

This kinda goes hand in hand with a DRO on my First mill, the selection process for components and display apply to both.

To start off, the scales are about the same from any supplier because they all offer magnetic & glass (“linear”) in large and slim sizes with the same resolution options so the choice would be driven by cost. The other distinguisher would be the display. My scales are Ditron, they worked out to be the best price with suitable size & performance.

From what I can tell, all far-east manufacturers of the displays have the same basics of functions like centering & hole patterns etc. (maybe the same ICs/software/displays re-badged?) and have some limited graphic display ability in their upper end models. For me, one of the down sides is that their controls are mechanical membrane or snap switches.

I wonder about their longevity and I have one poor example in my kitchen and have seen others on other machines. If it’s mechanical it can wear out. The snap buttons on my dishwasher are falling apart and are patched up with tape and it’s a “good” brand name. When I worked for a manufacturer of quick service restaurant equipment all the controls were capacitive, no snap buttons. A DRO zero button will get many more cycles so I look at something that’s built to a price point for a small market as a risk (less product reliability design effort).

Another down side is the long hardware support channels back to Asia even if there’s a North American presence.

The counterpoint to this is the option I chose. I decided to go with a Yuriy’s Toys TouchDRO. The two big upsides I see from this is it is based on an Android tablet and the software appears to be more user friendly. It provides the user with a nice intuitive display, particularly when working with programmed points when milling but I’m getting ahead of myself. Anyhow, the software appears to cover the utilities offered by the far-east displays plus more. The developer (Yuriy) is accessible & responsive but on the flip side he’s one person although he seems committed and dedicated. He developed the system for his own use first and his network encouraged him to share with others which led to TouchDRO. He sponsors and participates in a channel on Hobby-machinist.com.

The manual is HTML on his web site but when printed double sided it is almost half an inch thick!

If an android tablet can stand up in a consumer market place then it should be robust enough to not wear out in a hobby shop application, particularly because the keys are soft keys on a touch screen. I am anxious to see how well it performs in the shop, especially since some have doubts about the touch screen. So far so good.

One advantage of the TouchDRO platform for the hobby user is that the display can link to multiple machines (not at the same time of course) so for me I bought one display that I will move between lathe and mill, saving the cost of one display. You flip one switch in the app and select your Bluetooth connection and you have you lathe or mill DRO. All your settings are saved and come up when you select your machine. I won't be leaving it in the unheated when not in use shop where the mill is located.

Since the lathe is more or less done let’s start with it. Like I said, it’s a Myford Super 7 and in my case I have the Taper Turn Attachment (TTA) and I’d like to keep that capability so a little head scratching was in order. What I came up with looks kind of like this:

​

I was able to keep the TTA by making a 2-1/2 x ¼” spacer channel from a piece of square tubing. It moves the TTA further away from the lathe bed to give room for the scale. The TTA still seems to have enough travel if the link is moved to the outer T slot on the cross slide. I specifically placed the cross slide magnetic tape groove to one side to clear the TTA link and that seems to have worked out well. Only two new holes were drilled/tapped to install all the components of the DRO.

The side I cut out of the square tube sprung an absurd amount as I cut it out so there had to be a lot of residual stress in it from forming & welding:

​

I needed a good, parallel surface on the sides of the tube so I face milled both sides. The holes allow for multiple mounting positions for the TTA. Some of the scale mounting holes go in the channel too. In hindsight I would have made the channel the whole length of the scale/lathe bed rather than thinking just about the TTA.

The scales mount on stand-offs to clear the channel mount (1/4-26!) fasteners:

Scale in place with the read head bracket mounted and TTA installed.

​

For the Z Axis read head (and the X axis) mounting I made a plate that uses 2 of the carriage retainer strip bolts for mounting and mounts below the retainer strip. Longer (1/4-26) bolts were needed.

​

I mounted the X-Axis tape offset to one side to leave room for the TTA attachment.

X-Axis read head mounted:

TTA & X-Axis extension together:

TouchDRO uses a USB powered electronics board to power the scales and convert the output before relaying it to the tablet via Bluetooth, you can get the boards fully built, tested and with 3D printed enclosures or as U-solder kits for the board. You can also roll your own interface via an Arduino or similar. I don’t wrangle electrons so I chose the U-solder kit and bought off the shelf Hammond boxes to house the boards.

The D9 connector and board mount standoff positions were the first thing I used the DRO for. It’s hard to see in the photo but notice the datum point display in the DRO graphics window, I’m hovering over one of the datums in the photo and it is highlighted. When you approach the datum TouchDRO has a “magnetic” function that highlights it and displays the distance to the datum. Very nice to make sure you know which datum you are approaching. Made machining the boxes much easier than twirling handles, counting turns & accommodating back lash.

You can pre-program unlimited datums and you can group and save them and unclutter the display by only turning on the group you want to work on at the time. Very nice, it would be better if you could import them from an Excel sheet or DXF too…… You can take your tablet to your CAD station or easy chair to input your datums, no need to be connected to your machine.

Machining the Hammond enclosures:

​

The finished product:

Last part, I cobbled up a temporary(?) slide-in tablet mount using available organic materials on a swing-away arm to provide access for belt speed changes etc. That’ll probably fine for the lathe but I think I may want a rotating (tablet) mount for the mill so maybe I’ll use a commercial mount. I have something on order from AliEx to try out.

​

Time to get some experience with my new DRO as well as complete the mill installation!

D

nice.

I dont need to document my DRO install now

 

[Tecnico]

nice.

I dont need to document my DRO install now

Hey, don't be shy, there's always something good to share!

D

 

[Tecnico]

Update: Mounting the DRO on my First LC1-1/2TM mill.

First step was to mount up the X & Y scales, that was pretty straightforward, more or less like the typical BP.

There are counter bores with a threaded bore in the side of the knee so I mounted a bar to them and shimmed the spacers for fit and mounted the Y axis scale. There are convenient 1/4-20 tapped holes on the end of the saddle for mounting the head bracket.

The table & saddle are flush to one another so the X axis scale was easy to mount. I didn't run into any nodrillium either!

Planning to do the Z axis next, I made up an adapter to use my 1/2" drill to raise it. I was looking forward to running the knee through its full travel a few times by hand.

I got caught up in the discussion @TorontoBuilder was having about putting a scale on the quill so I did that next. I hadn't formulated a design but I knew I wanted to do something different from what I had seen elsewhere and kept some mag tape in my pocket perhaps for doing something custom. When I saw @TorontoBuilder 's quill knob reader head bracket it turned on the light and resulted in this:

I used an expanding anchor in the clearance hole in the front of the Quill Knob to mount the bracket so no modding of the mill.

The mag tape is mounted on an off-cut from a piece of architectural channel (Home Depot) cut to give a leg on the outboard edge about the height of the thickness of the tape. The assembly is mounted to the face to the right of the Quill Knob that First was kind enough to mill nice & flat for my convenience I used 3M Very High Bond (VHB) auto trim tape to mount the mag tape assembly. I have no worries of that falling off, in fact it'll be a job if I ever have to take it off.

It works! I really like that it gives an uncluttered finish with good access to the depth stop assembly and no mods to the machine.

Only the knee scale to go....and photos of the tablet mount. Gotta finish that and paint it.

D

 

[TorontoBuilder]

Update: Mounting the DRO on my First LC1-1/2TM mill.

First step was to mount up the X & Y scales, that was pretty straightforward, more or less like the typical BP.

There are counter bores with a threaded bore in the side of the knee so I mounted a bar to them and shimmed the spacers for fit and mounted the Y axis scale. There are convenient 1/4-20 tapped holes on the end of the saddle for mounting the head bracket.

The table & saddle are flush to one another so the X axis scale was easy to mount. I didn't run into any nodrillium either!

Planning to do the Z axis next, I made up an adapter to use my 1/2" drill to raise it. I was looking forward to running the knee through its full travel a few times by hand.

I got caught up in the discussion @TorontoBuilder was having about putting a scale on the quill so I did that next. I hadn't formulated a design but I knew I wanted to do something different from what I had seen elsewhere and kept some mag tape in my pocket perhaps for doing something custom. When I saw @TorontoBuilder 's quill knob reader head bracket it turned on the light and resulted in this:

I used an expanding anchor in the clearance hole in the front of the Quill Knob to mount the bracket so no modding of the mill.

The mag tape is mounted on an off-cut from a piece of architectural channel (Home Depot) cut to give a leg on the outboard edge about the height of the thickness of the tape. The assembly is mounted to the face to the right of the Quill Knob that First was kind enough to mill nice & flat for my convenience I used 3M Very High Bond (VHB) auto trim tape to mount the mag tape assembly. I have no worries of that falling off, in fact it'll be a job if I ever have to take it off.

It works! I really like that it gives an uncluttered finish with good access to the depth stop assembly and no mods to the machine.

Only the knee scale to go....and photos of the tablet mount. Gotta finish that and paint it.

D

nice.

Very similar to mine except my read head is mounted 180 degrees to yours.

I only got this far on my knee nut driver