Tom O
Ultra Member
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@Susquatch continued discussion
- Thread starter Dan Dubeau
- Start date
Dan Dubeau
Ultra Member
The thing that I hate the most about fusion is the cloud. I have expensive internet at home, I don't need to be updateing a programm all the time or storing all my files over the interet when I have free storage on my HD. The user interface is ok. Decent enough for almost anything the average hobbyist will ever need and more, but having all my stuff in the cloud and the cumbersome way to get around that is just annoying.
Ironically the times that I DO use fusion (or used to, havn't much in the last few years) is because of the cloud. If I'm working on some home projects while at work, I like having that storage where I can bounce back and forth without forgetting memory sticks. I ended up buying a tiny metal stick that attached to my keychain though, and that has kept me away from fusion ever since. I've wanted to give it a try for programming ever since I got the tormach, but just haven't got around to it yet. As much as I like playing around learning new things, I sometimes hate playing around and learning new things lol.
Last project I was using it for was some sculpting with t-splines, which was pretty cool. Rhino 7 now has that feature too (sub d) so I might buy a copy of that in the near future. I've always been a rhino fan since I started using it back on version 2.0. I like command line driven and hotkey cad.
They all offer something different for what you need.
Ironically the times that I DO use fusion (or used to, havn't much in the last few years) is because of the cloud. If I'm working on some home projects while at work, I like having that storage where I can bounce back and forth without forgetting memory sticks. I ended up buying a tiny metal stick that attached to my keychain though, and that has kept me away from fusion ever since. I've wanted to give it a try for programming ever since I got the tormach, but just haven't got around to it yet. As much as I like playing around learning new things, I sometimes hate playing around and learning new things lol.
Last project I was using it for was some sculpting with t-splines, which was pretty cool. Rhino 7 now has that feature too (sub d) so I might buy a copy of that in the near future. I've always been a rhino fan since I started using it back on version 2.0. I like command line driven and hotkey cad.
They all offer something different for what you need.
Such an interesting discussion. Decades ago I really couldn't comprehend AutoCAD. Then for hobby use, while living in The Netherlands, I tried Turbo CAD which although seemed cheap didn't work well and the price slowly escalated. Dumped it.
Fast forward to late early 2000 and Alibre showed up. Now there was a CAD system that I understood and for me was almost intuitive. Alas they sold out to a 3D printing firm which did nothing with sheet metal parts or a lot of the other CAD stuff. Mecsoft's AlibreCAM was suspended and I ended up with dongles for both VisualCAM from MecSoft and Geomagic. The only good part of Geomagic is it was able to import STL files.
Then Alibre designers bought it back. MecSoft left us hanging with the integrated version essentially discontinued. Now export as STEP, import into MecSoft VisualCAM and create the CAM stuff. Want to change one tiny detail in the design. ALas, scrap all the CAM work because you have re-import a new STEP which is missing all the CAM stuff you spent 4 hours doing. Wasn't like that with the integrated version. And Alibre can no longer import STL files. I think Alibre and Mecsoft had some sort of falling out which really is too bad.
One option is FreeCAD which can import STL, can export STEP and STL.
Anyway, for now I'm staying with Alibre and the last integrated version of CAM that still worked and living with the occasional crash. My software will run forever even if I don't pay them another cent. But of course Microsoft will see to that not happening. One tiny upgrade in the OS that breaks the code and that old software will stop working. Which is why the WIN-7 system hasn't been upgraded in now 5 years at least.
Fast forward to late early 2000 and Alibre showed up. Now there was a CAD system that I understood and for me was almost intuitive. Alas they sold out to a 3D printing firm which did nothing with sheet metal parts or a lot of the other CAD stuff. Mecsoft's AlibreCAM was suspended and I ended up with dongles for both VisualCAM from MecSoft and Geomagic. The only good part of Geomagic is it was able to import STL files.
Then Alibre designers bought it back. MecSoft left us hanging with the integrated version essentially discontinued. Now export as STEP, import into MecSoft VisualCAM and create the CAM stuff. Want to change one tiny detail in the design. ALas, scrap all the CAM work because you have re-import a new STEP which is missing all the CAM stuff you spent 4 hours doing. Wasn't like that with the integrated version. And Alibre can no longer import STL files. I think Alibre and Mecsoft had some sort of falling out which really is too bad.
One option is FreeCAD which can import STL, can export STEP and STL.
Anyway, for now I'm staying with Alibre and the last integrated version of CAM that still worked and living with the occasional crash. My software will run forever even if I don't pay them another cent. But of course Microsoft will see to that not happening. One tiny upgrade in the OS that breaks the code and that old software will stop working. Which is why the WIN-7 system hasn't been upgraded in now 5 years at least.
Thanks for pointing that out Dan. Reading my post again I realized I lost my train of thought. I've gone back & appended. For sure there are some very capable & powerful laptops out there. But yes, as a general rule they cost more than the regular box PC equivalent. There is quite of bit of info on the web where people have done extensive benchmarking so you can get a good sense of what's what.
I don’t have very fast internet at home, about 20Mb/s download and 3Mb/s upload. It’s never been frustrating. Updating to a new version of Fusion takes maybe 2 minutes.
But I too am a little apprehensive about trusting my models to a big company…
If AutoDESK ever changes their policies and makes online storage capacity part of a subscription cost, then I’ll be paying for Fusion360 for one month and exporting all my models. Until then, I’m thankful they are providing me with this backup service for free!
Dan Dubeau
Ultra Member
I only have bell 4g/lte internet at home. About 5mps/down, less than 1 up. It's also expensive. About $150-600/month, depending on overages it can get really pricey..... No other good options at the moment until starlink gets here, which I've been waiting on with a deposit down since last feb. Site says mid 2022, but i've been bumped once before so..... It can't get here soon enough.
I could go with explornet....rather not. We "could" put up a large tower to get line of sight too, but that is expensive. It was never that bad until all this work, and school from home stuff.....
Needlesly throwing large files up into the cloud is a waste of data for me, when I have other options. I'll probably use fusion more when I get starlink. As i want to try out the CAM side.
I could go with explornet....rather not. We "could" put up a large tower to get line of sight too, but that is expensive. It was never that bad until all this work, and school from home stuff.....
Needlesly throwing large files up into the cloud is a waste of data for me, when I have other options. I'll probably use fusion more when I get starlink. As i want to try out the CAM side.
The reason for my laughter is your definition of not very fast internet at home. You should try living on a farm. I would die to have 20M download. I pay for an advertized 10 but I'm lucky to get 1M on a day when all the kids are in school. When the rug rats are home, I might get 200K.
But I started with teletype and worked my way through 300 baud, 1200 baud, 9.6K, DSL, etc. All my kids in town have fibre and laugh at me.
My flight Sim desktop would easily run whatever Cad software is out there, but I ain't doing it. I've used every version of flight Simulator since it was first sold on 5-1/4" floppies. When MSFS 2020 arrived, all I could do was drool because nothing I had would run it. The computer, a curved 4K monitor, and the program were a Christmas gift from the whole family. Even so, I am severely restricted by my slow internet. One of the most significant program improvements is the scenery. It's live streamed from Bing maps data. It is sooooo cool to be able to land on my own farm laneway......
At my internet speeds, I have to stop the flight to let the scenery catch up.
Updates often take several days to download. I spend more time updating than flying!
Ya, I built my first pc before there were any. I understand the issues as well as anyone. I have an ongoing love/hate relationship with the computing world.
But you guys have convinced me to give it a whirl. I am going to strip and load a clean copy of Windows 11 onto a gaming laptop and then hope that it will run Fusion with nothing else on it.
In an attempt to keep myself happy, I may also install a mirroring program so I can run the laptop from my phone over my home network. If (and only if) that works, I will come back and review 3D Printer Options.
I accept that my rural living choice might preclude me from doing anything more than a slow google search.....
I didn’t even notice the context of your laughter. Like my introduction said, I’m a little slow…
0.2Mb/s download…OMG, that must be painful. It’s bringing back memories of the gentle music of dial up modems, when the internet was young and fresh and to splurge was installing 1Mb of RAM…
My first computer was called a Memoteck(?), programs were recorded on an audio cassette. Rewind to the beginning, zero the cassette players counter and then fast forward to where the program was supposed to start. Boy, I sound like an old fart.
Good luck!!!!
(My computer is not yet(?) on the eligible list for a Windows 11 “upgrade”… )
In the beginning there was only handloaded programs. You wrote them, created a hex list on paper, and entered one byte of the program at a time into memory. Then along came cassettes. But you still had to hand load a loader that was needed to read the cassettes. That was the first boot loader. Then came PROMs that you could burn the loader into. Then EPROMS you could change. Things moved into hyper drive then!
I'm so surprised to find so many old geeks running machines today. Sorta feels like it was destiny for us. "Old geeks don't retire, they just get old and become machinists". Who would have guessed?
But seriously, why so many of us here? Was being a computer pioneer a training ground for future machinists?
I'm so surprised to find so many old geeks running machines today. Sorta feels like it was destiny for us. "Old geeks don't retire, they just get old and become machinists". Who would have guessed?
But seriously, why so many of us here? Was being a computer pioneer a training ground for future machinists?
That is strange so many of us are IT geeks.
No idea. I know people that were big into computers and weren't interested in the machining side of things. And the opposite too.
Eventually I moved up to a new Z80 CPU board that had 256K RAM still running CP/M-80 but with a paging approach that allowed much bigger programs and data sets. I've ported CP/M-86, MP/M-86 and OS9-68K to systems.
But it was working in The Netherlands on Trim & Form machines (bends and trims the leads on ICs) that introduced me to some amazing machinist and machines. From there one might say the rest is history. When we came back and moved to Victoria in 1994 the Internet was only just starting. rec.crafts.metalworking was the place to exchange ideas. And finding Dave Gingery's books in the local library allowed me to realize a foundry, metal lathe and so on...
Computers still paid the bills though. Like that set of rings in my avatar.
@Susquatch , I'm just having to renew my Fusion 360 Personal License, instructions for doing this are here:
knowledge.autodesk.com
I played a little with computers in high school (not at school, via the computer I bought and played with at home). When I was studying for my Electrical Engineering degree programming was taught, first Fortran, then Pascal. I think it was in year 3 of university that we did assembly programming (theoretically, there was no running it on a computer). There was a PDP-11 in one of the computer labs that had toggle switches for programming it in machine code. Pity I didn't try programming it.
I don't consider myself an IT geek, although I enjoyed programming I've got so many other hobbies that I don't need to add another to the list. Perhaps that will change when I retire...?
How to renew a start up/personal license for Fusion 360 | Fusion 360 | Autodesk Knowledge Network
You want to renew a free startup or personal license for Fusion 360. When your current license is within 20 days of expiring, you will see an "Expiring Soon" or "Subscribe Now" message like this: Free personal use licenses for Fusion 360 are valid for three years, and can be renewed at the end...
knowledge.autodesk.com
I played a little with computers in high school (not at school, via the computer I bought and played with at home). When I was studying for my Electrical Engineering degree programming was taught, first Fortran, then Pascal. I think it was in year 3 of university that we did assembly programming (theoretically, there was no running it on a computer). There was a PDP-11 in one of the computer labs that had toggle switches for programming it in machine code. Pity I didn't try programming it.
I don't consider myself an IT geek, although I enjoyed programming I've got so many other hobbies that I don't need to add another to the list. Perhaps that will change when I retire...?
Dan Dubeau
Ultra Member
The extent of my computer "programming" growing up was playing with a commodore 64 as a kid, then some Unix stuff in college. I've always been more of a mechanical guy. But can get kinda trudge my way through stuff once in a while. Curious by nature though, i started playing around with arduinos a few years ago with some projects in mind. Eventually I may even get back to them and finish it 
. My 9yo Son got an arduino kit for christmas this year, and has been playing around with it a bit. He LOVES coding, and it's his favourite subject in school, so if I play my cards right he might finish the arduino projects for me .
. My 9yo Son got an arduino kit for christmas this year, and has been playing around with it a bit. He LOVES coding, and it's his favourite subject in school, so if I play my cards right he might finish the arduino projects for me .
I just powered up an ancient WIN-95 running on a 486DX100 with 32MB of RAM. Think it's time to scrap it. Just taking up space. Even the Colorado Tape drive can't read most of the old backup tapes. The web browser can get out there but no one will really talk to it because it doesn't have the security aspects. Not even sure if there is a firefox for it.
Here's a stack of two S100 systems that I still have. The bottom one is an ERG-68K with MC68000 micro-processor and CPM-68K hard drive and 5.25" floppy. The upper one is an Intersystems Z80 system with paging CPU for RAM drive and data base extension. Two 8" floppy drives.
The last time I tried to boot the Ithica I think the 8" floppies would no longer read. Haven't tried the CPM-68K. They've sat in the same place since 1997.
The last time I tried to boot the Ithica I think the 8" floppies would no longer read. Haven't tried the CPM-68K. They've sat in the same place since 1997.
The old 486DX100 sure had a lot of boards. Serial Mouse. Round keyboard connector. Separate board for disk drives, Video, Network, Parallel port, and a Soundblaster card that also ran the CDROM
Oh and then there's this one, a CPM-86 system with an 80186 CPU. That was like an 16 bit 8086 processor but also had serial ports and other I/O built into the CPU. More like what we see nowadays.
Think most of this will be in recycling by the end of the week. Just not worth the time.
Think most of this will be in recycling by the end of the week. Just not worth the time.
When you talk about pitching it, a big part of me wants to go hide somewhere and cry.
So many memories.
I think those of us here who helped Pioneer all this stuff made a big difference in our day. If not for early adopters like us, computers might never have grown to be the big business they are now and we would all still be using mechanical calculators and slide rules. I have no idea what the critical mass was at the time, but I'll bet it was a very fine line.
Beer/wine/booze/pop is on me if you want to join me.