Stick Welding- what’s your favourite rod?

[wmetfab]

im going to elaborate on this. Typically on a full penetration butt well that is accessible from both sides a guy would weld one side and "back grind" the "back" to remove any junk that may cause an inclusion/lack of fusion/porosity, and then proceed to put a weld in said "back" side. There are procedures for welding an open root butt weld with no backing and no access to the back side, but they "technically" require someone with a class T cwb ticket (assuming structural/cwb), or a pressure ticket (assuming piping that falls under absa/manitoba dept of labour/etc..)

either way there is so much money you can hand over to those scammers who run CWB its not even funny

Ryan,

As you know by being a certified welder yourself, the Canadian Welding Bereau does not set the welding standards, they are a quality assurance verification system.

They ensure that the welding performed conforms to the various CSA standards in place developed over time that ensure public safety for structural applications of many types.

The CSA standards are a requirment of the Canadian building code and written into designs by engineers engaged in any building project of substance.

The CWB provide services to the welding industry to achieve this, including training, qualifying welding operators and supervisors and assisting companies in developing and having welding procedures in place for the type of work they undertake.

For this service they charge a fee.

I have nothing but praise for the inspectors that came and did the audits, witness the welder testing and help us to make sure each welding operator employed performed a quality weld. The passed on their impressive wealth of knowledge and experience they were great people and we respected them, they were not "police"

This enabled us to undertake work that others were not qualified to do and put us on an elevated playing field separating us from the guys on the fringes who bought a welding machine and then called themselves a welding contractor.

It was costly but a very good thing for my business, we had an outstanding reputation for quality workmanship and we were always in demand beyond our capacity.

 

[phaxtris]

I've had cwb tickets when they were little pieces of paper that fell apart in your wallet after a month, Im quite aware of what they are

I don't have problems with the inspectors, I dislike the monopoly they have, a private company should not have that much pull.

Having a div2 is great, and it may elevate you in a small town or very small city, but once you get to any place larger it's really the minimum, it's like a 10k tax on building mezzanines or hand rails

 

[StevSmar]

Stev,
A suggestion,
Its best to avoid the stop start on welds that are shorter than a full rod.
A trick ive used is do the weld, then set aside the remaining lenght or the electrode, let it cool.
Use the remainders for shorter welds or tacking. Economize but dont be afraid to toss the odd stub thats a little long for the sake of a quality weld.

Most of my welds were about 1” in lenght. The large ones 2”. I wasn’t concerned with stopping and starting on a weld since the project was also a “start learning to weld”.

I did find that cold rods were harder to strike and sometimes I’d heat a rod up on a test piece before doing actual welds.

I was a bit too enthusiastic on using all of the rod… Sometimes I had no flux left…

Boy I enjoyed the welding, I want to find another project that needs it. The part I least liked was cutting the metal to length: four cuts with a portaband and then filing the pieces to the same length… I can see a metal cutting chop saw being in my future.

 

[StevSmar]

Is that the 7018 you're using there?

I gave up using 7018, even dropping down to 3/32 I couldn’t get my 100A welder to consistently keep the arc lit.

I’ve got a nice big box for when I get a welder with more capacity…

 

[StevSmar]

on the subject of your welder not putting out the power, I would suggest that you do two things. First, is to crank the power up on the welder until it starts popping the breaker while it runs.

I never had troubles with the breaker tripping. The cable was sized correctly for a 30A breaker but I don’t know if it was sized for voltage drop.

If you are comfortable doing so, pull the covers off your welder and have a poke around through the various connections inside, seeking out loose bolts and such. a loose joint can really restrict the output, in my experience, and it is an easy thing to check. Check your cable connector fittings as well. A loose or poor joint there can limit current through too.

My welder is a multi tap transformer type, so it would be pretty easy to pull the covers off to see what voltage it’s got under load. I’m unlikely to pull a new feeder though…

Do you know anyone near you that has a 'known good' wall plug that you could test your welder on? PITA to move the welder around, but it would clear up whether the welder, or the wall, was the issue...

What I’m using is a 30A cable that was run to the garage for a heater that was never terminated. I put a receptacle on it and terminated it in the panel.

The other, is possibly, to drop a size down on your rod, if the welder really is not putting out the heat, or is not drawing the current it needs.

I had to admit defeat and only use 3/32 rod or thinner.

I was able to weld some really thin walled tube with a 1/16” rod that was quite proud of. The paint covered all the holes I blew in it…LOL.

 

[phaxtris]

@StevSmar 100a is plenty to burn 3/32 7018, only need 80-90 amps, must be something up with that oldschool tap machine

nothing wrong feeding it with 30a 220, thats plenty of juice for even 5/32 7018

 

[Proxule]

I spent almost a year working with a guy that had been a shipyard and underwater welder for 20+ years before he joined the Military. He passed on a lot of good practices, and a few dirty tricks how to make various rods do things they were not supposed to be able to do...

One of the better pieces of advice he gave me, was that when you are welding overhead, always wear ear plugs! It's only gonna take one hot spark bouncing into your ear to get your undivided attention.

Out of position welding was mostly about heat control. Enough to do the job, not so much as to turn the work into a puddle that falls out of the weld.

We built the internal structure and the mount posts for a CF-18 Fighter to be planted at the front Gate of CFB Cold Lake as a Gate Guard.
Sadly, the guy running the lift thought he knew more than the crane operators or the engineers that designed the whole project, and he dropped the damn thing on the ground.

No damage was done to our structure in the drop, though.

Nice ones, another one is wrapping your/my ground cable around magnetized pipe ( my exp ) or other magnetized weldments. Several wraps. Helps the arc not wander and or bounce around !

Gluck

 

[YotaBota]

@StevSmar - have you got a welding school nearby? That would show if it's your machine or if it's just more practice needed.
Or have you got someone close with bigger machine that would let you run a few beads just to see what difference there is from your tap welder.

I run 1/8 7018 at 125ish amp on a 30 amp breaker with no issues, even on a 40' extension cable.

 

[trevj]

I never had troubles with the breaker tripping. The cable was sized correctly for a 30A breaker but I don’t know if it was sized for voltage drop.

My welder is a multi tap transformer type, so it would be pretty easy to pull the covers off to see what voltage it’s got under load. I’m unlikely to pull a new feeder though…

What I’m using is a 30A cable that was run to the garage for a heater that was never terminated. I put a receptacle on it and terminated it in the panel.

I had to admit defeat and only use 3/32 rod or thinner.

I was able to weld some really thin walled tube with a 1/16” rod that was quite proud of. The paint covered all the holes I blew in it…LOL.

It's not really defeat, when you figure out what you need to do to make the welding machine work for you, instead of you working for it!

Sometimes (too often) there is a lot of other things in play, and it takes a bit of troubleshooting to sort out cause and effect.

 

[trevj]

Nice ones, another one is wrapping your/my ground cable around magnetized pipe ( my exp ) or other magnetized weldments. Several wraps. Helps the arc not wander and or bounce around !

Gluck

Yep, I have seen a fair few guys recommend same. Mainly for DC welding.

As I understand it, it acts much like a coil in a circuit, in that it adds some back EMF and stabilizes the amperage draw. (and beyond that, I am talking WAY over my actual knowledge, but that is what I have been told!)

FWIW, I have seen guys suggest wrapping both the ground and the hot lead, around a steel pipe or chunk. One, the other, or both. Your Mileage May Vary (aka YMMV).

In real world terms though, I have not ever held any Certs worth bringing up. When I retired, I had exactly ONE piece of paper that was recognized outside the Canadian Forces, and that was my St Johns Ambulance basic first aid certificate that expired a year after I did.

 

[trevj]

I'll add this as an extra.

There is no shame in trying! Shame comes from giving up!

Troubleshooting, is a thing. When what you read about other peoples experiences, radically differs from the experiences you have, in many cases, that means that your conditions are not the same as theirs, so you should resolve to figure out why!

 

[trevj]

I'd like to thank the folks that deleted a few of my recent posts in this sub forum.

As much as they may have been considered out of line for the Forum, I am sure that the intended message reached the recipient that they were intended for.

And no, I don't feel I should cut back on the attitude. It IS mine. I respect the right of anyone to hold an opinion. I think my opinion is as valid as anyone's.

 

[Ironman]

I would be real interested to have a voltmeter across the line on the input when it is under load. Just hook up the VM and stick a rod. You got plenty of time to read it before the rod gets red hot.
I had the experience of having my 80 amp Hypertherm shut down repeatedly. I started cutting and had someone read the meter... at 170 volts when the compressor kicked on. 10 seconds later I get an error message.

 

[AntonB]

I cant give you a "this is the best 6013" because I don't know, 6013 isn't used in industry. So my experience with it is limited. But, if I were to put my money on who probably had the best 6013, ESAB would be my bet, I say that because its well accepted that currently ESAB makes the best 7018 rod, chances are there 6013 is top shelf as well.

You wouldn't think brand made any difference, but they all have slightly different mixtures for the flux, and it makes a difference in the way the rod behaves, weather that be the out of position performance, the behavior of the slag, characteristics of the arc, smoothness of the final bead, or the durability of the flux...you don't have to be a "pro" to see the differences either

I wouldn't go as far as to say any rod is worthless, they all stick things together (and themselves to things), some just weld nicer than others, some of it is personal preference, you really just have to try a few brands to see which you like and runs the best for you on your machine. I might prefer brand x, and you might prefer brand y.

I pick up the odd 2.5lb P-auto box of rods when its something out of the ordinary (i just bought a box of 3/32 6011...it'll probably take me 10 years to burn it up), the stuff they sell isn't great, but it works, and you can get it at 8pm on a Thursday night

If you're asking about 7018, in 2023 I would say ESAB, but they are expensive, the next best to that for 7018 is Solid Strike (used to be Linde, now Messer) or Bohler, considerably cheaper, downside is the flux is less durable.

For 6010 Lincoln 5p+ hands down, for 6011 Lincoln fleet weld 180

This is the way

 

[Proxule]

This is the way

This is the way