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SOURCING A VFD - WHERE DO YOU GO ?

A good friend was in an accident and brought his truck to a shop. Truck was a total loss, and the insurance company knew there was a $65/day storage fee being applied. They paid more money in storage fees in order to quibble over the payout for the total loss, than they paid out for the truck.
 
slow-poke said:
I wonder what would happen insurance wise if one of these non CSA approved "Amazon special "VFD's caused a fire and or other damage. I'm actually surprised an electrician would actually hook one up knowing it's not approved for use here? Anyone from the insurance industry have insight?
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Professionally, I don’t hook up non-csa VFD’s or control panels. My company doesn’t either.

There is 0% gain and 100% risk being an electrical contractor who hooks up Amazon VFD’s or non CSA control panels.

If people buy them themselves and ask me how to hook them up, I will tell them how. Even sell them parts to do it. But my hands don’t touch the wires.

I don’t recommend them. But hey, people are going to do what they are gonna do.

Automation direct are CSA rated and reasonably priced….

That being said, CSA Rated VFD’s explode all the time LOL.

And the biggest fire starters out there are RED coloured tool battery chargers of the “rapid charge” variety….. and those are CSA….
 
TorontoBuilder said:
I think that humans are evolving to be more sociopathic and psychopathic because of the competitive advantage of that trait outweighs the collective benefits of a social contract within a modern society.
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I have been thinking the exact same thing lately. My late grandma use to shake her head and say I fear for you with the way society is evolving. I didn't really understand her fear at the time, but I sure do now.
 
TorontoBuilder said:
I think that humans are evolving to be more sociopathic and psychopathic because of the competitive advantage of that trait outweighs the collective benefits of a social contract within a modern society.
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slow-poke said:
I have been thinking the exact same thing lately. My late grandma use to shake her head and say I fear for you with the way society is evolving. I didn't really understand her fear at the time, but I sure do now.
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Well, I have a different view.

Assuming that the stats are correct (and I doubt they are), all forms of crime and violence are actually reducing rapidly on a per capita basis. It's just that we hear about a murder in LA and a theft in the town across the province 5 minutes after it happens. The only crime rate that is going up exponentially is political lies, media exploitation, and insurance malfeasance. Bad as it might still be, (in fact as unacceptable as it might still be,) everything else is actually getting better.

Same goes for death rate, life expectancy, quality of living, etc etc.

Again, I'm not saying that what we have is great, just that we think it's worse than it is and that our grandparents had it so much better than we do. But it's just not true.
 
Susquatch said:
Well, I have a different view.

Assuming that the stats are correct (and I doubt they are), all forms of crime and violence are actually reducing rapidly on a per capita basis. It's just that we hear about a murder in LA and a theft in the town across the province 5 minutes after it happens. The only crime rate that is going up exponentially is political lies, media exploitation, and insurance malfeasance. Bad as it might still be, (in fact as unacceptable as it might still be,) everything else is actually getting better.

Same goes for death rate, life expectancy, quality of living, etc etc.

Again, I'm not saying that what we have is great, just that we think it's worse than it is and that our grandparents had it so much better than we do. But it's just not true.
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Sorry but equating the rise in sociopathy, psychopathy and other anti-social personality disorders with a rise in crime rates is wrong

Only the lowest disordered personality disordered person's tend to engage in crimes in which they're caught and prosecuted.

High functioning psychopaths however are often smart and tend to bend the law to their own purposes.. they're often CEOs and world leaders. They tend to avoid prosecution, or consequences..

It takes some sick puppies to say "I hate this group so much I'm willing to poop in my own pool to "punish" them"
 
TorontoBuilder said:
Ah that is a good alternative view point.

I think that humans are evolving to be more sociopathic and psychopathic because of the competitive advantage of that trait outweighs the collective benefits of a social contract within a modern society.
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I think it's more the case that the psychopaths and sociopaths that we have always had are suddenly able to spew hatred and vitriol across the world with a click of the button thanks to social media and essentially suffer no consequences. If they had acted like that to somebody in their community a couple of hundred years ago there would have been immediate retribution in the form of exclusion, (Don't talk to Olaf, he's a dick) or punishment ( I just beat the shit out of Olaf because he's a dick). Now there is not only no repercussion, there is affirmation and a sense of community with other dicks around the world (Olaf has friends now).
We've always had village idiots, but now there is a worldwide village of idiots.
 
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Doggggboy said:
I think it's more the case that the psychopaths and sociopaths that we have always had are suddenly able to spew hatred and vitriol across the world with a click of the button thanks to social media and essentially suffer no consequences. If they had acted like that to somebody in their community a couple of hundred years ago there would have been immediate retribution in the form of exclusion, (Don't talk to Olaf, he's a dick) or punishment ( I just beat the shit out of Olaf because he's a dick). Now there is not only no repercussion, there is affirmation and a sense of community with other dicks around the world (Olaf has friends now).
We've always had village idiots, but now there a worldwide village of idiots.
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IMO social media has only allowed the rising numbers of antisocial personality types to find receptive audiences and to gain legitimacy for their views as well as encouragement. The kings of psychopathy musk and trump are fully supportive of the rise of this... sure they may benefit in the near term, but I think it is leading to the end of humanity. I expect the apocalypse to come shortly. Hence my expediting certain bucket list builds
 
Susquatch said:
I'd recommend against that.....

A lathe isn't like a mill or a surface grinder. A cheap VFD on those is a safe bet.

But the startup load/current on a lathe is HUGE by comparison. They are not in the same league. A lathe has to spin up all the gearing, the shafts, and the spindle & chuck. The rotating mass is ginormous compared to a surface grinder or mill.

Just yesterday, I was doing power consumption measurements for my shop. I have an emporia power monitoring system in my breaker box (highly recommended). Just for Shits and giggles, I tested the power consumption on the lathe. It was big all on its own. Then I changed the time base so I could see the startup power usage - it was off the chart!

Your lathe needs a higher quality VFD.
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Understood. My lathe is a 1 hp SB Heavy 10. I'm willing to take the chance, expecting to use the ramp up time to ease the startup load. If necessary, I can even disengage the drive belt before starting the motor. There's already a lever provided for this purpose..
 
MrWhoopee said:
Understood. My lathe is a 1 hp SB Heavy 10. I'm willing to take the chance, expecting to use the ramp up time to ease the startup load. If necessary, I can even disengage the drive belt before starting the motor. There's already a lever provided for this purpose..
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You can do all that and more. Glad you understand startup is worst case. But it doesn't change the fact that running a lathe is a hard life for any VFD. I'd still recommend a good one for your lathe and use the less expensive units to run mills, sanders, drill presses, saws, and grinders, etc etc. They say there is a time and a place for everything.
 
PaulL said:
I've had a vevor cheapo die on me. I won't detail their approach to customer service except to quote "we will pay up to $80 for a local technician to repair your device". I paid $110. And ain't no way a "local technician" will even look at it for under $300. Just getting the replacement IGBTs was going to coat as much as a new unit.
Less trouble with the replacement, for which I doubled the rating.
Buy a bigger one than your motor claims it needs.
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I have had the same experience with Vevor, but I refused their "compensation", and they immediately offered to send me a replacement. I agreed.
It turned out that the guy who wired the motor did it wrong and that was why the vfd blew. I took the motor in for a checkout and they corrected the problem for free.
I have VFDs from Automation Direct, and a Mollem from Amazon, a Teco, and a Vevor. The all work well and many of the internals come from the same place.
I will say that the Vevor is the easiest to program if you are green, and the Mollem is the hardest. But Molem has a tech in the US that responds to email immediately with great help.
Yes, buy a larger vfd and a larger motor than you need. If running slow, like 18 cycles, cooling is an issue, much more with a small motor. A large motor will not break a sweat at low speeds.
 
I installed a cheap AT1-2200x VFD last night, on an SM 1120. This is a 3hp rated VFD on a 3/4 hp machine.

I have to say, once I got it setup, it works amazing. The DC Injection braking works flawlessly and stops the chuck in about 2 revolutions from 2000 rpm, and about a 1/4 rev at 200 rpm.

The one setting that is eluding me is the startup time. There is about a three quarter to one second delay before anything happens when you flip the switch, then it ramps up to full speed in 3/4 of a second. I cannot find any setting that adjusts this delay. This is the same delay I have have experienced with this same VFD in the past, but never bothered trying to fix it till now.
 
Darren said:
The one setting that is eluding me is the startup time. There is about a three quarter to one second delay before anything happens when you flip the switch, then it ramps up to full speed in 3/4 of a second. I cannot find any setting that adjusts this delay. This is the same delay I have have experienced with this same VFD in the past, but never bothered trying to fix it till now.
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I know you know what you are doing, so at the risk of telling the choir how to sing ....... look for the "rising velocity" function. Or maybe they call it ramp, no guarantee all the data sheets are identical. The input is Hz per second. There is also a deceleration which I've used on the surface grinder
 
Generally, the ramp down time is just after the start time setting, usually in seconds.
It can be called accelleration, GE/Teco calls it Accelerate/decelerate time. Also, under Start Method, if the "brake on start" setting is active, you will have that pause, as the brake on start is supposed to stop a free spinning load like a fan, befor turning on the VFD
 
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