Shop Cleanout/Pairing Down

[DavidR8]

@DPittman I bought a box lot of taps so I'll look through them for those sizes

 

[PeterT]

Are you sourcing BA taps to match BA fasteners in your kit? Reason I ask is sourcing the fasteners themselves from suppliers be another level of $$. I've seen some (UK) suppliers of really nice scale looking hex heads, nuts etc but they seemed kinda spendy & min pack qty's etc. Not sure if you would consider 'conventional' IMP or MET fasteners or if the castings allow for it.

 

[DPittman]

Are you sourcing BA taps to match BA fasteners in your kit? Reason I ask is sourcing the fasteners themselves from suppliers be another level of $$. I've seen some (UK) suppliers of really nice scale looking hex heads, nuts etc but they seemed kinda spendy & min pack qty's etc. Not sure if you would consider 'conventional' IMP or MET fasteners or if the castings allow for it.

Yes the little kit came with BA fastners. If I can't find taps reasonably priced ill probably just substitute close metric counterparts for the assembly. The way I line up projects and get them done it will likely be my son in his adulthood that gets this project done someday. (my son is only 9 years old)

 

[trlvn]

@DPittman Funny that you should post that today. @TOBARApprentice sold me his Stuart S50 kit which also includes 5, 6, and 8BA fasteners. I happen to have a couple of BA taps from auction box lots, although not a 5BA.

It appears I could also use dies for 5BA and 7BA threads. Single pointing is possible but the thread angle is very different (47.5 degrees).

So I'd also be interested in BA taps and dies.

Craig

 

[DavidR8]

@trlvn I will check my stash

 

[DPittman]

There doesn't appear to anything available in all of China in regards to BA taps and dies. However they appear to be available from some India sources, ( I'm guessing from the British association with India). I'm guessing everything from India is of poor quality.

 

[YotaBota]

I started looking for BA tools as well but I think it will be a pita so I think I'll give the purists a heart attack. I'm considering using North American standard screw sizes and just making my own studs and such. It'll be cheaper than the BA tooling and if something buggers up I don't need to go to England to get nuts and bolts. We have to do all the tapping and most of the threading anyway so why not use what we know and have readily available.

BTW - I bought to 10V, it arrived yesterday and this should be an interesting build. Harold Hall has a 10V build on his website that he did with a lathe and drill press so a mill isn't a necessity. http://homews.co.uk/page42.html

DP - Did you get the 10H?

 

[YYCHM]

I was sooo tempted to get one those kits but then it would spawn a boiler and who knows what else

 

[YotaBota]

then it would spawn a boiler and who know what else

The next would digging up Mom's garden to start laying track,, lol

Don't know if I'll go as far as a boiler but we'll see, compressed air will work fine as long as I remember to oil it.
It would be nice to find someone local who is into this steam stuff just to see some running engines and boilers.

 

[Tom Kitta]

There doesn't appear to anything available in all of China in regards to BA taps and dies. However they appear to be available from some India sources, ( I'm guessing from the British association with India). I'm guessing everything from India is of poor quality.

Almost all stuff from India is of poor quality (machining related) but not 100% - they seem to make OK wrenches and similar tooling - must have gotten machines from China. Some basic not precision items are OK as well. I would be a bit afraid of Taps and Dies - think China of the 1980s.

 

[DPittman]

Yes I got the 10H

I can't imagine that metric or sae counterparts wouldn't be totally acceptable. And the more I think about it the more I think it is likely a BETTER choice.

I sure was hoping that there would have been a bit more for instructions and drawings with my kit than I got. There is just one VERY crowded drawing that is hard to make out what part is what And I think maybe it covers the 10v, 10H and the double 10 . Oh well I guess I need practice at figuring out blueprints

 

[DPittman]

@YotaBota Oh that Harold Hall link you provided looks like it provides great information that will be very helpful even for the 10H.

 

[trlvn]

The Home Model Engine Machinist site led to a supplier in England:

https://www.tracytools.com/taps-and-dies/BA-taps-dies

They offer carbon steel and HSS variants for each size. Didn't check out shipping.


The TSME supplier list included an industrial supply place in Mississauga that lists BA taps (by Dormer):

https://www.tryhardindustrial.ca/search#/catalogue/group/6312

I don't see BA dies, however. Also, the price is listed "POA" which I don't understand. As well, it says Call US for Stock so maybe they are a special order thing.

Craig

 

[RobinHood]

These guys sell BA tap & die sets. They say all their threading tooling is made in either USA, UK or PRC. No prices listed.

http://goliathtoolingcanada.com/product/ba-0-8-hss-two-tap-style/

 

[PeterT]

Some (metric) fastener links I've stowed away.

https://model-motorcars.myshopify.com/collections/small-parts-hardware/bolts
https://modellbauschrauben.de/index.php?m=02_1
https://knupfer.info/shop/index.php/deutsch/modellschrauben-stahl/stahl-hoher-kopf.html


Article snip from model engineering forum, not sure if links are updated

http://www.jimorrisco.com/miniature-screws-and-fasteners/miniature-nuts.html
A source of brass 2-56 to 0000-160 nuts and threaded rod, for those really small jobs. Also taps & dies and very good small nut drivers. Hex sizes for tools and nuts are model hex pattern.

http://www.microfasteners.com/
A variety of types of fasteners not a lot of scale model hex available in small sizes. 00-90 & 0-80 taps and dies.

http://www.newmantools.com/taps/micro.htm
Very small taps and die and info. both UNM which is US metric instrument screws and the old series 0000-160, 000-120, 00-90 etc.

https://model-motorcars.myshopify.com/collections/small-parts-hardware/bolts
Small 1mm 0.8mm and 0.5mm scale hex bolts, taps nuts and small rivets.
New owners of Scale Hardware back in business.

http://www.modelmotorcars.com/
A lot of the same stuff as Scale Hardware but with clevises and carriage bolts. A bunch of other cool maybe useful stuff for electric locos.

http://www.modellbauershop.de/assets/s2dmain.html?http://www.modellbauershop.de/index2.html
German model engineer site small model hex bolts and very cool brass shapes NO English but they do speak English for phone orders.

http://www.knupfershop.de/
Another German model engineer site with small model hex bolts.

http://www.ekpsupplies.co.uk/
UK model engineer site 0BA- 14BA hex bolts and small rivets in steel brass and copper.

http://www.americanmodeleng.com/id41.html
Very good selection of 0-80 through 10-32 scale hex head bolts in brass steel and stainless. Also a nice selection of small hex and square stock to make custom bolts.

http://www.reactivemetals.com/
00-90 and 0-80 scale hex head, cheese head and flat heat in brass with several finishes including black oxide. Good pricing on large orders.

http://www.minitaps.com/
High quality micro taps and optical screws. The slotless 1.2mm and 1.16mm rimless repair screws make very good carrage bolts. The checkout does not work email or call so they can check stock.

http://www.tabcooptical.com/core-xmodsitemap/COREseo.html
A nice assortment of optical screws and taps.

http://www.rivetsonline.com/drive-screw/steel-drive-screws.html
Drive screws steel and stainless 00 aqnd 0 screw sizes various lengths to make mini carrage bolts. Or attach small nameplates.

http://www.ba-bolts.co.uk/smallhex.html
BA hex bolts with one size smaller hex. 10 BA bolts have a 12 BA thread.

http://www.ba-bolts.co.uk/threadedbar.html
Threaded rod steel, SS, brass, and phosphor bronze various sizes.

http://www.ba-bolts.co.uk/pdfs/BS 57-1951 - BA Screws & Nuts etc.pdf
B.S. 57 : 1957 -- Full BA thread standards


http://hobby.uk.com/catalogsearch/result/index/?mode=list&q=coachbolts&x=0&y=0
Small coachbolts 1.6mm to 3mm with square nuts.

 

[YotaBota]

I just did some cyphering and the 5BA/7BA can be replaced with 6-32 and 4-40 hardware so unless someone comes up with a "can't pass that up" solution to the BA taps it looks like the standard size hardware will be the way to go.
DP- The drawing that I have does show the three different engines and you're right, it's going to take some study time. I bought a package of school exercise books and will layout all the parts in one of them with dimensions.
Search " Stuart 10H exploded view" and view Images for a parts layout, the first site has both 10H and 10V layouts.

RobinHood - nice looking set but unless a guy starts to build the different sizes of UK steam engines my guess is that it will be pretty pricey for a one off build that only uses two or three of the tools. I just sent them an email so I'll let you know the cost.

PeterT - thanks for the links

 

[DavidR8]

Standing down on looking though my tap stash.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[YotaBota]

Standing down on looking though my tap stash.

Thanks for the searching.

 

[trlvn]

I just did some cyphering and the 5BA/7BA can be replaced with 6-32 and 4-40 ...

My understanding is that BA fasteners have quite fine threads. From the HMEM site, it is suggested that 5-44 UNF is the equivalent for 5BA (0.126" diameter, approximate 43 tpi).

7BA (0.098" dia, approximate 53 tpi) is about the same as 3-56 UNF.

Of course, this leaves the problem of finding UNF fasteners in small sizes! Using UNC fasteners ought to be OK as long as 4 or more threads will be engaged. Need to take some care to ensure that tapped holes will offer sufficient engagement.

Direct download link (although maybe you have to be a logged-in user for it to work?):

https://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/attachments/ba-threads-to-u-s-threads-txt.120646/

Craig

 

[YYCHM]

Direct download link (although maybe you have to be a logged-in user for it to work?):

https://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/attachments/ba-threads-to-u-s-threads-txt.120646/

Craig

Yup, you have to login to access it.

Craig