Schaublin 70 Project

[Susquatch]

Pretty much done, phew! The idea was spare no effort in an attempt to achieve factory new accuracy and performance. Its a no small challenge given it was a wreck and Schaublin was arguably the finest maker of lathes. (There may be equals, but I can't think of a maker that surpasses them). It took over a year and many times I had to hold my tongue just so! I did everything on the this lathe, spindle regrind and made a new double taper bearing as per above (about 3/4 of a tenth TIR), lapped the tailstock, hard chromed and ground the quill, (2 tenths clearance, you can hold the TS vertically and the quill doesn't fall out), scraped and ground the slide rest, scrape the bed, scraped the headstock and tailstock into alignment to a tenth....every surface that touches another got worked on. Had to make many missing parts as well. Really of sick of reconditioning at the moment....but nah, the biax isn't for sale...yet . I even painted it which I usually don't do...but its a Schaublin so deserved it.


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It's beautiful Mcgyver. It almost looks surreal. Clearly very old but yet new looking. Do you know when it was made?

I assume it uses an overhead belt system of some kind. It doesn't appear have any threading capability.

Even the oil tray is beautiful.....

Very impressive work and pretty darn good photography too!

Well done!

 

[PeterT]

@Mcgyver looking back at your older pictures, you definitely made what I consider a good decision on paint. It deserves it LOL. Can you summarize your prep & what kind of top coat system you ended up using?

 

[Former Member]

Time to learn something again from someone (you), nice work!

 

[6.5 Fan]

Excellent restoration.

 

[trlvn]

The idea was spare no effort in an attempt to achieve factory new accuracy and performance. Its a no small challenge given it was a wreck and Schaublin was arguably the finest maker of lathes.

Your work is fantastic, yet again. And the photography is not too shabby either!

It struck me though, that at one point this was just another day at work for someone. Amazing the skill level those guys must have had.

Maybe I'm completely wrong, but my impression is that, back in the day, a lot of the Swiss watch-making industry was 'cottage' work. Basically farmers making some extra income over the winter. But I have no idea how that worked. A cottage worker could not have afforded to invest in a Schaublin to only use in the winter months.

Craig

 

[Susquatch]

Your work is fantastic, yet again. And the photography is not too shabby either!

It struck me though, that at one point this was just another day at work for someone. Amazing the skill level those guys must have had.

Maybe I'm completely wrong, but my impression is that, back in the day, a lot of the Swiss watch-making industry was 'cottage' work. Basically farmers making some extra income over the winter. But I have no idea how that worked. A cottage worker could not have afforded to invest in a Schaublin to only use in the winter months.

Craig

I'm just speculating here Craig... I really don't know the answer to your question. Like you though, I like to ponder questions like that.

My ancestors were mountain farmers like those swiss watchmakers. What I have been told is that those mountain farmers all lived in central family (or clan) villages and travelled out to each individual farm from the central village. Sometimes they would have tiny "cottages" that were used for longer stays afield. In the village, the animals were on the ground floor and people lived above that. Often times, each clan would have specialty skills that they were known for that could be traded between clans. Quite often, that skill even became the basis of the family name.

Could it be that the clan would acquire equipment like that for everyone to use?

Mind you, watch making and even lathe work of any kind is not really that old. I would also guess they didn't use anything nearly as gorgeous as @Mcgyver 's schaublin. Perhaps even as simple as a spinning shaft in packed bearings. Perhaps using a machine like that to produce precision time pieces was how they came to be known as craftsmen.

Just speculating.

 

[Mcgyver]

thanks for all the kind works gents, much appreciated!

Peter, each casting was sanded, filled, spot puttied, sanded, primed with filler primer etc, over and over. Then I start painting. for about 5 coats I ended up sanding away the paint as the flaws we're really only noticeable once painted. There are still are some, but I had to stop and get on with others things.

Paint is PPG line 7 enamel spayed with a two stage airbrush. The paint is hard for an airbrush, but my new two stage brush is about 50x better than the only single stage (both Paasche). The paint is fairly glossy which I don't particularly like so talc was added to get the more matt finish (just looks glossy below because its wet)

 

[Mcgyver]

Maybe I'm completely wrong, but my impression is that, back in the day, a lot of the Swiss watch-making industry was 'cottage' work. Basically farmers making some extra income over the winter. But I have no idea how that worked. A cottage worker could not have afforded to invest in a Schaublin to only use in the winter months.

Craig

I don't know all the intricacies either, however I recall reading that were something like 28 different trades or specialist jobs that that went into the different parts of a watch. For example, the guy the made hair spring wasn't the one who guilloched the bridges who wasn't the one who enamelled the dials who wasn't the one who made the hands and so on I suspect those farmers were either fulfilling one specialty and supply a certain part, or were assemblers. I also suspect that "back in the day" was quite a long time ago.

This little factoid is what makes someone like a George Daniels so revered, he mastered every one of the 28 and did each supremely well. Almost none can do that.

Speaking of horology.....I had a nice long case clock follow me home the other day. The seller thought it was made in 1712, I think more like 1730. I get a kick out working on stuff that old....before Dickens was born, Newton was still around (if 1712) and the US wasn't a country yet

 

[Susquatch]

I don't know all the intricacies either, however I recall reading that were something like 28 different trades or specialist jobs that that went into the different parts of a watch. For example, the guy the made hair spring wasn't the one who guilloched the bridges who wasn't the one who enamelled the dials who wasn't the one who made the hands and so on I suspect those farmers were either fulfilling one specialty and supply a certain part, or were assemblers.

This little factoid is what makes someone like a George Daniels so revered, he mastered every one of the 28 and did each supremely well. Almost none can do that.

This fits with my family village theory too.

 

[PeterT]

Thanks for paint info. Yes I can see where paint viscosity in that range might be a bit of push for an airbrush. One of the HVLP mini guns I have is the prior version of this Lemmer #601 (mine is 600 but looks the same). Made in Taiwan, at least was the vase 10-15 years ago. It was pretty reasonably priced, I recall about $125 with a few Teflon cups. I run mine off of a very humble mini compressor. Anyways the big plus is you can get 4 different needle/nozzle sizes from 0.5-1.2mm & its quite amazing what that range will deliver. I was spraying auto type paint from 0.5" to 2.5" with pretty decent control. Next step up is maybe a Iwata but 2-3X the price. Anyways I'm an advocate of mini HVLPs.

A-601 HVLP Mini Gravity Gun

LEMMER is a manufacturer and distributor of paint spray equipment and rust proofing spray equipment. Products include air & airless paint sprayer, HVLP, pressure pot, rustproofing, air assist airless, pneumatic pump, electrostatic and pipe coating.

www.lemmer.com

I'm a bit weird. I would actually enjoy the finishing aspect of a machine. I'm sure its not without its challenges, especially cleaning & prep work & where to draw the effort line castings. But they sure look purdy when done. There is a nice range of satin clears out there which really is a cool look & every bit as resilient. But they are the typically 2K intended for base/clear systems. It would certainly work on a machine but more work & the fumes are more dangerous.

 

[buckbrush]

Model 70 Schaublin lathes are rare around Calgary. The two that I have seen are the “hand screw machine” model, like a turret lathe.

 

[Canadium]

...
Peter, each casting was sanded, filled, spot puttied, sanded, primed with filler primer etc, over and over. Then I start painting. for about 5 coats I ended up sanding away the paint as the flaws we're really only noticeable once painted.

Which products did you use to fill and spot putty?

 

[Mcgyver]

Ian, I used Bondo autobody filler for the first pass and anything rough then Bondo Glazinng and spot putty, mostly because it was on Amazon.

Model 70 Schaublin lathes are rare around Calgary

I think they are rare everywhere. They sell at a real premium to the larger 102's because of rarity and they are highly prized by watch and clock guys. I've bought 4 1/2 of them over the last 15 years and all were through networking, the never seem to come up. A friend of mine (where this one is going, a trade) has bought a similar number of them, each (afaik) a friend of a friend. For a couple of them he went to the States. Actually I fib....last week where was a beautiful one on facebook, he wanted 7800 and I think it was up a day then SOLD! Moderate amount of collets but lots accessories and tooling and it was a late model. I semi toyed with grabbing it, adding some accessories to my collection and reselling at a profit, but it would be a lot of effort for not much upside. He had a Schaublin 150 for 18k and a Schaublin 13 mill for 10k that went just as quickly. Big dollars, but that's what they go for and still, you have to ready to pounce right away.

 

[DavidR8]

Thanks for paint info. Yes I can see where paint viscosity in that range might be a bit of push for an airbrush. One of the HVLP mini guns I have is the prior version of this Lemmer #601 (mine is 600 but looks the same). Made in Taiwan, at least was the vase 10-15 years ago. It was pretty reasonably priced, I recall about $125 with a few Teflon cups. I run mine off of a very humble mini compressor. Anyways the big plus is you can get 4 different needle/nozzle sizes from 0.5-1.2mm & its quite amazing what that range will deliver. I was spraying auto type paint from 0.5" to 2.5" with pretty decent control. Next step up is maybe a Iwata but 2-3X the price. Anyways I'm an advocate of mini HVLPs.

A-601 HVLP Mini Gravity Gun

LEMMER is a manufacturer and distributor of paint spray equipment and rust proofing spray equipment. Products include air & airless paint sprayer, HVLP, pressure pot, rustproofing, air assist airless, pneumatic pump, electrostatic and pipe coating.

www.lemmer.com

I'm a bit weird. I would actually enjoy the finishing aspect of a machine. I'm sure its not without its challenges, especially cleaning & prep work & where to draw the effort line castings. But they sure look purdy when done. There is a nice range of satin clears out there which really is a cool look & every bit as resilient. But they are the typically 2K intended for base/clear systems. It would certainly work on a machine but more work & the fumes are more dangerous.

That's a nice size gun. Spendy though I bet...

 

[gerritv]

More likely to find Schaublins in EU: https://www.machinio.com/schaublin/70/centre-lathes or https://www.werktuigen.com/schaublin-70/wt-701-1024

 

[Mcgyver]

More likely to find Schaublins in EU: https://www.machinio.com/schaublin/70/centre-lathes or https://www.werktuigen.com/schaublin-70/wt-701-1024

but they sure aren't any cheaper! $6000 cdn for for that.....wow. Minimal tooling and its a TR, turret configuration which means no tailstock and most importantly no slide rest. About useless for general lathe work. Its also F collets (vs W12) which are less desirable (takes longer to change a collet, which isn't the end of the world, but generally the market doesn't like them as much.)

 

[gerritv]

The first link had more generic ones, but yes, that is the price from dealers. Private sales are less costly but if you are not 'over there' they are difficult to spot. 102's are a lot more plentiful. Had I been wiser years ago I would have picked one up on one of my visits home to Holland.

OTOH you spent a lot of time rebuilding that one, and worth the effort.

 

[PeterT]

That's a nice size gun. Spendy though I bet...

I just called Lemmer in Calgary. The #601 now goes for $185 (I forgot to ask if the kit includes Teflon cup & mini air reg like mine did). The needle/seat/cap assembly for a different orifice size is $65,
So assuming they maintained the quality its actually a decently versatile mid road gun. My buddy was doing guitars & small woodworking projects with his. But paint systems vary a lot depending on the nature of the hobby or business.

Air Spray Gun

LEMMER is a manufacturer and distributor of paint spray equipment and rust proofing spray equipment. Products include air & airless paint sprayer, HVLP, pressure pot, rustproofing, air assist airless, pneumatic pump, electrostatic and pipe coating.

www.lemmer.com

There are Chinese versions of these mini HVLPs for much lower cost. Its similar to machine tools, they vary from perfectly fine to junk & really hard to judge what you may get. But I'm dating myself to 10-15 years ago - my knockoff I think was a Princess Auto door prize win. It has ill fitting O-rings to seal (compensate for ill fitting) air cap assembly, the needle is very rough & not ground properly. The threads all seem to leak. So back in the day I reserved it for primer just to save wear on my good gun. Really for spraying a machine you could probably easily get away with a cheapo & it will do a better job vs a brush or spray bomb.

https://www.amazon.ca/Canadian-Tool-Supply-Spray-SG-HVLP-E1/dp/B07PRGFVMP

IMO avoid these older gen (non-HVLP) style of touch up guns. They work, but they are operated at higher pressure so tend to gobble paint, have less control, less tolerant of viscosity etc.