Rust is the Enemy

[Chicken lights]

I'm still on the hunt for volume VCI.

Done and done

 

[Susquatch]

View attachment 22989
Done and done

Woah! At that price, I'd have to share......

 

[Dabbler]

you might look into zerust - it is available in 5 gal containers.

 

[Susquatch]

you might look into zerust - it is available in 5 gal containers.

I actually bought a bunch of their stuff back about 12 years ago. I put some of their paper tabs into my Reamer containers, my travel tool box, and my fishing tackle boxes. I was disappointed. But maybe that's because it was easily depleted in the environments I used it in. Seemed to work ok in enclosed Reamer tubes, and was mixed performance in my travel tool box, but didn't do squat for my fishing tackle.

I doubt that is a fair assessment though because the experiment was very poorly controlled. I guess I just expected better since their advertizing claimed it was perfect for tackle boxes.

Yes, I should try to get a container of it.

 

[thestelster]

I believe this is what you're looking for:

https://www.traverscanada.com/product/wd-40-300035-movement-lubrication-81-006-209

 

[Susquatch]

I believe this is what you're looking for:

https://www.traverscanada.com/product/wd-40-300035-movement-lubrication-81-006-209

Half the price too!

 

[Dabbler]

I actually bought a bunch of their stuff back about 12 years ago.

zerust is sending me some samples to try. My working hypothesis is that now VIC oils are now commonplace, that the techniology has matured in that segment. Anyway, Free samples are worth trying every time. Oh and it is 61$CDN a gallon but then there's shipping...

 

[Susquatch]

zerust is sending me some samples to try. My working hypothesis is that now VIC oils are now commonplace, that the techniology has matured in that segment. Anyway, Free samples are worth trying every time. Oh and it is 61$CDN a gallon but then there's shipping...

Free samples are always great!

I mostly agree with your hypothesis. I only say mostly because they seem to be prevalent at the big manufacturer level. Almost everything I get now has VCI paper or similar in it instead of dessicant. However, it seems to be as scarce as hens teeth at the retail consumer level. You would think it would be far more common than it is.

$61 a gallon is a GREAT price. But ya, the shipping...... For some reason I recall a Canadian supplier even back 15 years ago. Maybe we can find them.

The other issue is that VCI alone is no miracle. You still need a little oil mixed with it to provide longer term protection, or at least something to carry the VCI till it is depleted.

So back to your hypothesis, why isn't all this info more readily available?

 

[Dabbler]

BTW the source of the 61$ is just outside of your backyard, in Brantford, at Aircraft Spruce.

 

[Susquatch]

BTW the source of the 61$ is just outside of your backyard, in Brantford, at Aircraft Spruce.

Really! I had thought it was USA. I know I dealt directly with them when I first got some. At that price and availability, why not!

Since they are in Brantford, I'll just drop by and get some next time I am up that way. I have an account at Aircraft Spruce. I keep wondering when they will close up shop.

 

[Former Member]

Couple of tricks.

Breakfree CLP (spray).

Drop Cloth, not the plastic crap but real cloth. Basically is does not allow moisture to condense on the metal. Cheap old school solution. Anything with a plastic covering is bad as it it prevents moisture from escaping.

 

[Susquatch]

Couple of tricks.

Breakfree CLP (spray).

Drop Cloth, not the plastic crap but real cloth. Basically is does not allow moisture to condense on the metal. Cheap old school solution. Anything with a plastic covering is bad as it it prevents moisture from escaping.

In general, I agree. But not universally.

First question I always ask is "where are you located"? This makes a HUGE difference. The folks in the prairies live in humidity corrosion Shangrala. Those of us in Southern Ontario live in humidity corrosion hell. What works in the Prairies may not work in Ontario or the Maritimes or BC. The most important thing to understand is relative humidity.

Sometimes, a sealed plastic enclosure is actually better than an open or cloth container. If the sealed plastic bag is filled with dry cold air, it is virtually impossible to reach the dew point and condense moisture inside. In such a case, the plastic is actually better.

Often times, the problem isn't the cover per se. Tools and equipment are often stored in cabinets or drawers that can also prevent air exchanges. This can result in trapped moisture condensing on them when the temperature drops.

An easy way to control relative humidity and corrosion is to maintain a temperature higher than ambient. A small light bulb in a cabinet or enclosure or under a tarp is often all that is required.

 

[Former Member]

Ontario, worst time for condensation is warming up a cold shop in the winter, cold soaked metal in a warmer shop attracts water like a water magnet.

Again, the trick is tor reduce water attraction.

Take a look at www.brownells.com rust-blox vapor tabs for enclosed spaces.

 

[Susquatch]

Ontario, worst time for condensation is warming up a cold shop in the winter, cold soaked metal in a warmer shop attracts water like a water magnet.

Again, the trick is tor reduce water attraction.

Take a look at www.brownells.com rust-blox vapor tabs for enclosed spaces.

Hmmmmm... I find exactly the opposite. Warming a cold shop NEVER causes condensation. That said, for the cold months, I keep my shop a few degrees above freezing and also above ambient so the average relative humidity is always well below 50%. In the warm months I dehumidify.

But you are the second member to mention this, so there must be something to it.

What is your heating method?

What was the relative humidity before you turned up the heat?

What was the temperature before you turned up the heat?

Are you exhausting combustion air into your shop?

Are you using make-up air or a closed system?

I believe what you say and I ask the above questions very seriously. I'd really like to understand the physical processes whereby this happens in your shop.

 

[calgaryguy]

It's really very simple. The obvious case is machined steel tabletops on band saws and table saws. I have actually watched this process happen in my shop. Because the tabletops are shiny flat machined steel it's quite easy to see when a layer of condensation forms on them. Wipe away the condensation with a tissue and seconds later the condensation reforms. So I put a sheet of plastic on the tabletops held down by magnets to block the steels exposure to the ambient air and voila no more rusting tabletops!!!

On my woodworking equipment's machined surfaces I apply johnsons or minwax paste wax and buff. Protects the machined surfaces and provides a slightly slippery surface for wood to be more easily worked thru the machines. And since its wax intended for wood it leaves very little residue. I've never had a fisheye problem when spraying finishes...

 

[Former Member]

Hmmmmm... I find exactly the opposite. Warming a cold shop NEVER causes condensation. That said, for the cold months, I keep my shop a few degrees above freezing and also above ambient so the average relative humidity is always well below 50%. In the warm months I dehumidify.

But you are the second member to mention this, so there must be something to it.

What is your heating method?

What was the relative humidity before you turned up the heat?

What was the temperature before you turned up the heat?

Are you exhausting combustion air into your shop?

Are you using make-up air or a closed system?

I believe what you say and I ask the above questions very seriously. I'd really like to understand the physical processes whereby this happens in your shop.

Take a ice cold glass (choose your poison) outside on a warm day and the glass sweats.

This occurs at the DEW point (google it) saves me writing the theory and methodology.

Simply, as you heat a shop regardless of the method in cold weather as soon air temperature is warmer than the metal condensation occurs.

Unfortunately, most shops are cold until they are need (cost pf heating thing) so it is a fact of life. The cloth method just absorbs the moisture as it migrates to the machine greatly reducing the chance of condensation.

 

[Susquatch]

Take a ice cold glass (choose your poison) outside on a warm day and the glass sweats.

This occurs at the DEW point (google it) saves me writing the theory and methodology.

Simply, as you heat a shop regardless of the method in cold weather as soon air temperature is warmer than the metal condensation occurs.

Unfortunately, most shops are cold until they are need (cost pf heating thing) so it is a fact of life. The cloth method just absorbs the moisture as it migrates to the machine greatly reducing the chance of condensation.

Please know that I TOTALLY understand the physics, I can read a psychometric chart just fine. You don't need to dumb it down for me. I'm trying to understand what is different about the situation you describe.

To use your glass of cold water example or cold machinery. I've seen this too. Who hasn't? However, for this to happen, the local air temperature of the item (water or steel) must be below the dew point for the humidity of the local air. Normally, relative humidity goes down with an increase in temperature. Without an associated increase in localized water content or an increase in humidity, condensation will not occur because it always prefers to stay in the warming air. If however a cold object causes the local air temp to drop lower than its dewpoint, condensation will occur. In this case, there was no condensation in the initial condition so it must have been at or below 100% humidity so the temp of the surfaces cannot condense any moisture out of the warming air.

There are a few possible explanations though and that's what drove my questions.

If outside air is introduced, it could have a higher relative humidity than the shop had. This is especially true when the outside air is warmer and wetter than the shop air.

If the shop was actually colder than outside, high humidity outside air could condense.

If the heater produces moisture (eg a catalytic heater) this could increase humidity levels and cause condensation.

Etc etc.

 

[Former Member]

Please know that I TOTALLY understand the physics, I can read a psychometric chart just fine. You don't need to dumb it down for me. I'm trying to understand what is different about the situation you describe.

To use your glass of cold water example or cold machinery. I've seen this too. Who hasn't? However, for this to happen, the local air temperature of the item (water or steel) must be below the dew point for the humidity of the local air. Normally, relative humidity goes down with an increase in temperature. Without an associated increase in localized water content or an increase in humidity, condensation will not occur because it always prefers to stay in the warming air. If however a cold object causes the local air temp to drop lower than its dewpoint, condensation will occur. In this case, there was no condensation in the initial condition so it must have been at or below 100% humidity so the temp of the surfaces cannot condense any moisture out of the warming air.

There are a few possible explanations though and that's what drove my questions.

If outside air is introduced, it could have a higher relative humidity than the shop had. This is especially true when the outside air is warmer and wetter than the shop air.

If the shop was actually colder than outside, high humidity outside air could condense.

If the heater produces moisture (eg a catalytic heater) this could increase humidity levels and cause condensation.

Etc etc.

The problem is most buildings like it or not have moisture in them. Yes there are increases in moisture through various sources which complicate things, you breathing is one of them.

This issue is metal gets cold soaked and continues to absorb cold until it reaches stabilization. The moment the shop breaks freezing the metal becomes the moisture attractor until it stabilizes again with the surrounding conditions.

 

[Susquatch]

The moment the shop breaks freezing the metal becomes the moisture attractor until it stabilizes again with the surrounding conditions.

Ah, I see! There is the answer I was looking for. You let your shop go below freezing. This changes the dynamics considerably because it presents the opportunity for a change of state.

If the air in your shop is that cold, it hardly holds any water at all. Almost anything (yes even your breath) will increase the relative humidity in a heart beat and any moisture in there will collect wherever it can. It can't dry up because it is frozen. Most likely the relative humidity in your shop stays at the dew point for the first little while because of this excess frozen water that condensed out while the garage was cooling down the night before.

I have water pipes in my shop. So I never let it go below freezing lest I burst a pipe.

II will say that it's amazing to me that you don't have a crap load of rust in your shop just from the overnight freezing. It's a testament to the anti-corrosion chemicals you use.

 

[DPittman]

I'm lucky, rust is almost never a problem in my shop, except when I spill my coffee or beer and do t get it cleaned up properly.