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RF30 Mill/Drill Surprises

whydontu

whydontu

I Tried, It Broke
Premium Member
Just started reassembling a RF30 mill drill I bought in pieces last week. Did Boeing door engineers select the material sizes?

Examples:
Crank to lift the head - the set screw that holds the crank on to the gear is 8mm, the handle is 3/8”-16.

Set screw on the cap that slips over the top of the round column is 5/16” UNC, but the bolts holding the chip guard at the bottom of the column are 8mm.

Feed wheel handle set screw is 8mm, the set screw on the index ring on this handwheel is 1/4”.

I have 50+ years of fasteners in my shop, my philosophy has always been “don’t buy ten fasteners in a blister pack, buy a box. It costs about the same and they don’t go bad”. So I have boxes of screws and bolts that don’t have any French descriptions, they’re that old. The motor mount bolts are missing. The motor mount bolts are 7/16”-UNC. Who the heck designs something using 7/16” fasteners??? I could only find one 7/16” bolt in my entire shop.

End of rant.
 
Sounds like a my drill press. Made in 1982 in Taiwan. Some fasteners are SAE others are Metric.

Special place in Hell for the person who makes the call to mix fasteners.

The most baffling is when I find a metric fastener, with a bolt head that is not SAE or a standard metric size.
 
whydontu said:
Just started reassembling a RF30 mill drill I bought in pieces last week. Did Boeing door engineers select the material sizes?

Examples:
Crank to lift the head - the set screw that holds the crank on to the gear is 8mm, the handle is 3/8”-16.

Set screw on the cap that slips over the top of the round column is 5/16” UNC, but the bolts holding the chip guard at the bottom of the column are 8mm.

Feed wheel handle set screw is 8mm, the set screw on the index ring on this handwheel is 1/4”.

I have 50+ years of fasteners in my shop, my philosophy has always been “don’t buy ten fasteners in a blister pack, buy a box. It costs about the same and they don’t go bad”. So I have boxes of screws and bolts that don’t have any French descriptions, they’re that old. The motor mount bolts are missing. The motor mount bolts are 7/16”-UNC. Who the heck designs something using 7/16” fasteners??? I could only find one 7/16” bolt in my entire shop.

End of rant.
Click to expand...
Gotta be a Ford.
 
Some made is the USA cars of that era also used a mix of metric and SAE. My BB LC30 round column mill was a mix as well. My BB A1S knee mill seems to be all metric. I'm curious to see how it works out for you when fully assembled, the LC30 I had was a great first mill for the $500 price.
 
GM was well known for mixing fasteners...due to assembly of components in both Canuckland and Amurka...go figure
I worked as a young lad in a wrecking yard...I learned to never assume that NA vehicles were SAE as the gospel
Sounds like an interesting project to put back together...it happens daily here at my work...
one mechanic will take a truck apart...another ends up putting it back together (the service dept can't schedule for shit)
more often than not...we end up replacing hardware...because mechanic A didn't put anything in order or even in a bucket...then the cleanup kid comes along an it goes into the scrap bin...
 
trlvn said:
My RF-30 is the same. There are even 1/2-12 threads on mine. (The 3 lever arms used for drilling.) Not 1/2-13 UNC. Not 12mm coarse. Oh no, that would be too easy. ;)

Craig
Click to expand...
Craig, I’m either in your debt, or taking you out of my will. I just checked, and the lever arms on mine are also 1/2”-12. Who the eff makes 1/2”-12 fasteners??? And my mill kit is missing the ball ends for the levers, so I was just going to spend a few hours making ends for them. Which wouldn’t have worked, because I never would have thought of checking the thread size first.
 
KeeponDragon said:
GM was well known for mixing fasteners...due to assembly of components in both Canuckland and Amurka...go figure
I worked as a young lad in a wrecking yard...I learned to never assume that NA vehicles were SAE as the gospel
Sounds like an interesting project to put back together...it happens daily here at my work...
one mechanic will take a truck apart...another ends up putting it back together (the service dept can't schedule for shit)
more often than not...we end up replacing hardware...because mechanic A didn't put anything in order or even in a bucket...then the cleanup kid comes along an it goes into the scrap bin...
Click to expand...
I carried a full set of metric & SAE sockets in my ‘86 S-10 Blazer so that I could make repairs on the road: even though I could easily get underneath without jack stands, I preferred to have both close at hand to save repeatedly having to “get the other one.”
 
whydontu said:
Craig, I’m either in your debt, or taking you out of my will. I just checked, and the lever arms on mine are also 1/2”-12. Who the eff makes 1/2”-12 fasteners??? And my mill kit is missing the ball ends for the levers, so I was just going to spend a few hours making ends for them. Which wouldn’t have worked, because I never would have thought of checking the thread size first.
Click to expand...
I got my RF-30 about 6 years ago and the lever arm was the first things that needed fixed. The previous owner had bent the arm (at the hub) so that the arm was nearly broken off. I don't recall the exact sequence but I know I had thought the machine would be metric from top to bottom. My lathe at the time (Atlas 618) could sort of approximate certain metric threads and, as a newbie, I was _not_ looking forward to that process. After I realized that that the arm measured 1/2 inch, I believe I tried a chunk of threaded rod and was gobsmacked when it wouldn't thread in. I might not even have had a thread pitch gauge at that point. After I finally satisfied myself that it really was 12 tpi, I was pleasantly surprised to find that the little Atlas had that combination documented on the change wheel chart.

Later, I learned that old National thread standard (before WWI?) specified 12 tpi for coarse-threaded 1/2 inch fasteners. AIUI, going to 1/2-13 was one of the few changes when the Unified National Standard was agreed and released. So the Chinese are following a standard--just one that's been obsolete for around a century!!

Craig
 
trlvn said:
I got my RF-30 about 6 years ago and the lever arm was the first things that needed fixed. The previous owner had bent the arm (at the hub) so that the arm was nearly broken off. I don't recall the exact sequence but I know I had thought the machine would be metric from top to bottom. My lathe at the time (Atlas 618) could sort of approximate certain metric threads and, as a newbie, I was _not_ looking forward to that process. After I realized that that the arm measured 1/2 inch, I believe I tried a chunk of threaded rod and was gobsmacked when it wouldn't thread in. I might not even have had a thread pitch gauge at that point. After I finally satisfied myself that it really was 12 tpi, I was pleasantly surprised to find that the little Atlas had that combination documented on the change wheel chart.

Later, I learned that old National thread standard (before WWI?) specified 12 tpi for coarse-threaded 1/2 inch fasteners. AIUI, going to 1/2-13 was one of the few changes when the Unified National Standard was agreed and released. So the Chinese are following a standard--just one that's been obsolete for around a century!!

Craig
Click to expand...
I once ran into 1/2-12 on like an early 30s shaper, it threw me for a loop. Definitely seems odd on something modern.
 
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Not in my set of standard taps. 1/2"x13 seems to be more the norm. I have a couple of 1/4 and 3/16" LH dies but can't find the matching taps for them.
 
I ran into some 1/2-12 bolts on a light fixture recently, but, in fairness, it was made in the 20’s. Had some 1/4-18’s as well.

My loose understanding is the standard changed around WWI, but I can’t imagine that many shops immediately threw away all their taps, dies and bolts.
 
I have several woodworking machines (Delta?) and I keep finding that the setscrews are without question 1/4-20, but the hex key that fits is not 1/8", but 3mm. Too often for this to be coincidence or one bad one. Go figure.
 
I had a Mazda pickup in the late 1980's that had a Perkins diesel engine which was made in Japan under license from Perkins. The whole vehicle was metric except for the engine which was metric on the outside and SAE on the inside. All the external components on the engine were Japanese like the injection pump which was a Kiki made in Japan for rhe Perkins engine. I found out about the mixed fasteners when I went to adjust the engine valves. You needed metric tools to remove things and get the valve cover off but once you get inside you needed SAE tools to adjust the valves.
 
On to the next concern.

My RF30 seems to be old enough to have voted for Justin’s Dad. Not a concern, it’s in really good shape, bearings are tight, quill is unscarred. But, it’s 10” higher than the current design. Just looked at a new one at KMS Tools, and a new clone RF30 is 43” high. Mine is 53” high. And unlike the KMS beast, mine has a one-piece cast iron column and mounting foot, like #408 on the attached drawing. Problem is, I only have 80” of overhead height available in the only location I can use for the new mill.

So I either have to install with the table surface only about 30” off the floor, or cut down the column to get the table at a reasonable working height. I’m leaning towards cutting down the column, I think having to hunch over to operate the mill will get old fast.

Anyone else had to make this choice? Thoughts?

Unless someone in the Vancouver area wants to do a swap for a smaller column or machine?

IMG_7424.webp
 
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