Tool POS Tap Guide

[thestelster]

I purchased this tap guide from KBC. KBC brand for $20.00. I wanted the Fisher brand, made in USA for $32.00, but they were out of stock. I figured the import should be fine. Holy hell Batman....what a piece of sxxt!!

Made in India, though it wasn't mentioned in their catalogue.
-The body is hardened, but the centering pin is soft.
-The hole in the body that the pin slides through is oversized and off center so there's lots of play.
-the female side of the pin is off center

The ad says, "Start every tap straight with this tool"

I say, Impossible!!

Stay away from this tool.

So I guess now I have to make. one

 

[Martin w]

It says it’s a handy accessory for any machinists tool box…It has to be good.Lol
KBC is pretty good, they should take it back.

 

[Susquatch]

I didn't know that is the one you asked about a while back. I got one just like it maybe 15 years ago or so. Mine is a POS too. Not at all sure where mine was made.

I have one I made, and one like this that actually works fairly well. It has a longer throw than the little one and the larger center provides a much better fit in the sleeve.

Spring Center Tap Guide Tool to Align Tap for Threading Lathe Mill Jig Bore https://a.co/d/4lLdhtA

 

[ChazzC]

I didn't know that is the one you asked about a while back. I got one just like it maybe 15 years ago or so. Mine is a POS too. Not at all sure where mine was made.

I have one I made, and one like this that actually works fairly well. It has a longer throw than the little one and the larger center provides a much better fit in the sleeve.

Spring Center Tap Guide Tool to Align Tap for Threading Lathe Mill Jig Bore https://a.co/d/4lLdhtA

View attachment 47802

I've found the one in your photo works well in a drill press, but has a little too much tension for use in my Mini-Mill.

Here is a series of posts in a related thread on another forum that discusses cheap vs. quality tap guides/followers (starts with post #6, then continues with Posts #9 – 15):

https://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/f...tiny-tap-wrench-handles?p=2088725#post2088725

 

[Susquatch]

I've found the one in your photo works well in a drill press, but has a little too much tension for use in my Mini-Mill.

Ya, it does. It's a bit long too.

But I know that @thestelster has a big knee mill with lots of room.

Also, the unit in my photo can always be shortened and a weaker spring installed.

 

[ChazzC]

Ya, it does. It's a bit long too.

But I know that @thestelster has a big knee mill with lots of room.

Also, the unit in my photo can always be shortened and a weaker spring installed.

Totally agree, can certainly make some tweaks so it’s better suited for smaller machines (and isn’t this what we always do?), but a little more difficult than shortening the spring in the other style. Interestingly enough, many of the ones like the KBC one are paired with your larger one on eBay & Amazon.

 

[Susquatch]

Interestingly enough, many of the ones like the KBC one are paired with your larger one on eBay & Amazon.

Ya, I noticed that too. Wtf is that all about?

Truth is that I'm not at all sure the ones they sell now are the same as mine.

I'd like to make another one myself. That way, the fit tolerances could be better, the working length improved, and the female end of the slider made bigger to fit bigger taps. Again, lots of room on my mill for a bigger longer tool.

 

[Chipper5783]

I purchased this tap guide from KBC. KBC brand for $20.00. I wanted the Fisher brand, made in USA for $32.00, but they were out of stock. I figured the import should be fine. Holy hell Batman....what a piece of sxxt!!

Made in India, though it wasn't mentioned in their catalogue.
-The body is hardened, but the centering pin is soft.
-The hole in the body that the pin slides through is oversized and off center so there's lots of play.
-the female side of the pin is off center

The ad says, "Start every tap straight with this tool"

I say, Impossible!!

Stay away from this tool.

So I guess now I have to make. one

I also have both of the tap guide identified above - also both from KBC, easy 10 years ago.

Re the “micro tap guide”, perhaps there is more to the story? There is a temptation to use it in conjunction with a T-handle tap wrench (which often have a tapered hole in the back) for small taps. I’ve done that - bad idea. The T-handle tap wrench generally is a poor alignment tool (exceptions aside). For a better explanation see Joe Pie’s video.

The larger tap guide? I agree with Susq, it is loose and wobbly. I use it a fairly often. Every time I use it, I’m reminded that I was going to make one (similar concept, less clearance & longer support) - soon as I get that roundtuit. I suppose it falls into the category of better than nothing.

 

[Dabbler]

Re the “micro tap guide”, perhaps there is more to the story?

This is the nth time Joe Pie has viewed a Bolndihacks video and produced "this is the right way, or "this is the wrong way" video. She has been very gracious, but in my opinion, this is purely trolling.

Both of my ratcheting tap wrenches have their centre in line. The one Joe has is a POS, but not all are. It is an excellent idea to check yours, but to generalize that all tap wrenches are bad is taking it too far.

 

[Susquatch]

This is the nth time Joe Pie has viewed a Bolndihacks video and produced "this is the right way, or "this is the wrong way" video. She has been very gracious, but in my opinion, this is purely trolling.

Both of my ratcheting tap wrenches have their centre in line. The one Joe has is a POS, but not all are. It is an excellent idea to check yours, but to generalize that all tap wrenches are bad is taking it too far.

I watched the video. Nothing wrong with those t-wrenches other than I never really liked them. But I agree that they should not be used with a tap guide. I prefer the tap wrenches that grip the tap flats because I can use these wrenches with a tap guide. The difference is that my tap guide guides the tap, not the wrench. My wrenches do hold the tap, but only on the flats and the tap center is accessible through the wrench. It's basically the same as Joe's shop made wrench, but his uses a grub screw on the tap and my Starrett uses the tap flats. Sometimes I'll use tiny little open end ignition wrenches if the tap is well supported. I'm careful not to bend the tap when I do.

It just so happens that I was making a Pulley Puller today and had to use my tap guide. So I also used my favorite Tap wrench to show how they can be used together properly.





You can prolly see that there are two stacked washers. I didn't need to tap through both but did, just to maintain alignment on the DRO. The bottom washer will get drilled to totally clear the pulley puller screw.

Both got milled to clear the pump housing as seen here.



When they are installed behind the pump pulley, they are clocked 120 degrees so the threaded plate has support for its ears.



Another part of this job that was interesting was turning the washer OD. The ID was easy in my 3 jaw. But my 3 jaw was too big to fit inside the washer to hold it while I cut the OD.

Normally, I would make a custom collet, but I was lazy so I put a much smaller Taig chuck into my 3 jaw and then chucked the washer in the Taig. Easy Peasy.

 

[Dabbler]

What I didn't say is that I mostly use the open ended wrenches as featured in @Susquatch pictures above. The T style I only use for tapping in the vise with small taps. I break small taps less frequently with a T style tap handle than the larger ones.

 

[thestelster]

Well, that's all fine and dandy when there's a center in the tap. But what do you do when there's no center? Those tap followers have a reversible center part, but then how do you turn the tap? I suppose you can grab onto the tap body with the open ended tap wrench.

 

[ChazzC]

Well, that's all fine and dandy when there's a center in the tap. But what do you do when there's no center? Those tap followers have a reversible center part, but then how do you turn the tap? I suppose you can grab onto the tap body with the open ended tap wrench.

At the risk of fueling the Joe Pie controversy, making knurled tap drivers for small taps is the way to go:

Use the "alternate" end of the tap follower point.

 

[Susquatch]

Well, that's all fine and dandy when there's a center in the tap. But what do you do when there's no center? Those tap followers have a reversible center part, but then how do you turn the tap? I suppose you can grab onto the tap body with the open ended tap wrench.

Some taps have a very pronounced tapered end that works well with the reversed center in some tap guides. Others don't. Sometimes the tap head is just a flat square drive - no center and no taper.

I try not to buy the latter. But crap happens.

In these situations, I have used a tap driver and chucked it.

I'll try to take a few photos tomorrow and post them.

 

[Mcgyver]

Well, that's all fine and dandy when there's a center in the tap. But what do you do when there's no center? Those tap followers have a reversible center part, but then how do you turn the tap? I suppose you can grab onto the tap body with the open ended tap wrench.

Personally, trying to think of when I'd need to ..... if not power tapping in the mill (which I do except for small or blind holes) I tap after the work is out of the mill. Either in the vise with a squat cylinder faced square and hole to fit the tap ID used a guide, in the universal pillar tool or if feeling lucky with the eyeball mk I.

Not that there may not be some great reason to, I'm just drawing a blank on when I've needed to. Maybe just different workflow styles?

 

[Susquatch]

I'll try to take a few photos tomorrow and post them.

@thestelster - as you know, there are three types of tap heads.



The outside one's are easy. They either use the Center or the Cone on the tap guide.

The one in the middle with only a flat is the problem child.

Someday I will make a tap guide with a 1/4" square drive built into it.

In the meantime, this is what I do.



It is the appropriate sized tap driver (in black) and a long 1/4 hex to 1/4 square drive adapter. The hex shaft can be driven with a tap wrench or an ignition combination wrench (shown). The mill is in neutral and there is a weight hung on the quill handle (a short piece of pipe) so the quill advances as the tap cuts. The tap driver socket is very short so there is no appreciable wobble at the tap at all.

The nice thing about the tap drivers is that a set contains all the popular tap head sizes and can be driven with a 1/4" socket ratchet once the tap is well started.

Ideally, I'd like to make a head for my tap driver so that I don't need to hang a pipe on the quill handle. I have not invented this gizmo yet, but it's a pretty simple device that replaces the plunger with something I can put a wrench onto - maybe just a drilled hole for a bar. I'd also have to lose the slider flat so it could turn. A wide groove cut on the lathe would work with that concept.

The existing pointed end will center on the 1/4" drive end of a tap socket, it's just that there is nothing accessible anymore to drive the tap with.



It's too bad the driver sockets don't have a hex end like spark plug sockets do. Anyway, it does work with a 1/4 hex driver. Just not very well.

 

[ChazzC]

@thestelster - as you know, there are three types of tap heads.

View attachment 47821

The outside one's are easy. They either use the Center or the Cone on the tap guide.

The one in the middle with only a flat is the problem child.

Someday I will make a tap guide with a 1/4" square drive built into it.

In the meantime, this is what I do.

View attachment 47822

It is the appropriate sized tap driver (in black) and a long 1/4 hex to 1/4 square drive adapter. The hex shaft can be driven with a tap wrench or an ignition combination wrench (shown). The mill is in neutral and there is a weight hung on the quill handle (a short piece of pipe) so the quill advances as the tap cuts. The tap driver socket is very short so there is no appreciable wobble at the tap at all.

The nice thing about the tap drivers is that a set contains all the popular tap head sizes and can be driven with a 1/4" socket ratchet once the tap is well started.

Ideally, I'd like to make a head for my tap driver so that I don't need to hang a pipe on the quill handle. I have not invented this gizmo yet, but it's a pretty simple device that replaces the plunger with something I can put a wrench onto - maybe just a drilled hole for a bar. I'd also have to lose the slider flat so it could turn. A wide groove cut on the lathe would work with that concept.

The existing pointed end will center on the 1/4" drive end of a tap socket, it's just that there is nothing accessible anymore to drive the tap with.

View attachment 47823

It's too bad the driver sockets don't have a hex end like spark plug sockets do. Anyway, it does work with a 1/4 hex driver. Just not very well.

Is there enough material at the back end of the tsp drivers so you could mill flats or a hex (random size to fit a stock wrench)?

 

[Susquatch]

Either in the vise with a squat cylinder faced square and hole to fit the tap ID used a guide, in the universal pillar tool or if feeling lucky with the eyeball mk I.

I have no idea what all this is Mike. Can you elaborate?

All except the last one that is. Eyeballing mk anything for a one-eyed old man isn't in the cards. I sometimes line up big taps by one-eye, but anything under 1/2 isn't happening anymore.

 

[kstrauss]

It rather depends on the size of the tap. Mine are seldom larger than 4-40 and 0-80 is more common. Even a MkII eyeball is not good enough.

 

[Susquatch]

It rather depends on the size of the tap.

Absolutely!

Mine are seldom larger than 4-40 and 0-80 is more common. Even a MkII eyeball is not good enough.

I don't think I've ever seen a 0-80. Then again, maybe I have but I didn't even know it was there..... LOL!