Overpaying Due to Inflation-Buying New

[Intensemonerider]

I know a lot of folks are going to say that they bought the same machine 3 y/ago for way less but unfortunately we are being screwed by inflation. I am looking at a Baileigh VMD-15 and after all taxes, shipping etc it will be 4K to my door. I know that’s expensive but wanted some different opinions. I will struggle with a King PDM-30 (made in china) trying to get it into my basement and its footprint is just too much. Wondering if I am out to lunch paying that much for a brand new (made in Taiwan) name brand round column mill. Looking for a sanity check…

 

[Intensemonerider]

Additionally, there is absolutely nothing decent or reasonablely priced for small mills on the used market…

 

[phaxtris]

You are paying 1000$ more for a smaller mill than the pdm30...

You can break a PDM 30 down pretty far, motor off, head off, column off, table off, it would be easily manageable

I don't believe the two are physically that much bigger, an inch here and there, a few on the table

As for made in china......everything is made in china, try to find something in your house from the last 10 years that isn't. this is not 1980, they have come a long way

 

[Intensemonerider]

I called Baileigh and they confirmed it is 100% Taiwan. Taiwan machines typically sell for a bit more according to Precision Mathew’s.

 

[Intensemonerider]

The King is approximately 3400 with tax so I am paying 600 more… I know it sounds silly

 

[Downwindtracker2]

As for inflation, I lived and worked during the '70s. " You ain't seen nothin yet. " Even Bridgeport class machines can be lowered down stairs. The secret is in the magic of rigging. Guys have laid plywood over the stairs and winched the parts down .

BTW watch Blondihacks on YouTube where she discusses her choice of machines.

 

[Perry]

If you are buying from outside of Canada, remember to check the duty fees. Dove tail machines are duty free. Might make a difference for you.


"Additionally, there is absolutely nothing decent or reasonablely priced for small mills on the used market…"

Don't rush. Something always shows up. Just keep your eyes open. Take the time now to save and learn. Read. Read up on the machines you think you like. Learn the pros and the cons.
Watch auctions, estate sales, kijiji.....you never know what you will find. I've been lucky more than once.


$49 Lathe

OKay...who scooped the Atlas lathe for a song?

There was one of those 'Estate Sales' in Acadia (heritage/fairmount dr) that Brian Lehman auctions puts on every now/then and they had an Atlas lathe listed in the ad. I went by a few hours after the sale started and the lathe was already gone: expected that since an Atlas can be a good unit...

canadianhobbymetalworkers.com

$380 CNC Cutting machine. (Basically a Sherline CNC mill. )

Pickup, package and drop item off for shipment in Montreal.

I thought I would try here. Maybe one of our members might be into this strange request. :) I would like to purchase a used Sherline CNC mill in Montreal. The mill would need to be picked up. Packaged. Possible disassembly required if it makes it easier to package. Then delivered to the...

canadianhobbymetalworkers.com

Hopefully something falls in your lap.

 

[Dabbler]

Even Bridgeport class machines can be lowered down stairs.

If you are in Calgary there are 5 or 6 guys that have great rigging experience here.

 

[Intensemonerider]

I live in the Toronto area, most guys I know have barista experience…lol

 

[Intensemonerider]

If you are buying from outside of Canada, remember to check the duty fees. Dove tail machines are duty free. Might make a difference for you.


"Additionally, there is absolutely nothing decent or reasonablely priced for small mills on the used market…"

Don't rush. Something always shows up. Just keep your eyes open. Take the time now to save and learn. Read. Read up on the machines you think you like. Learn the pros and the cons.
Watch auctions, estate sales, kijiji.....you never know what you will find. I've been lucky more than once.


$49 Lathe

OKay...who scooped the Atlas lathe for a song?

There was one of those 'Estate Sales' in Acadia (heritage/fairmount dr) that Brian Lehman auctions puts on every now/then and they had an Atlas lathe listed in the ad. I went by a few hours after the sale started and the lathe was already gone: expected that since an Atlas can be a good unit...

canadianhobbymetalworkers.com

$380 CNC Cutting machine. (Basically a Sherline CNC mill. )

Pickup, package and drop item off for shipment in Montreal.

I thought I would try here. Maybe one of our members might be into this strange request. :) I would like to purchase a used Sherline CNC mill in Montreal. The mill would need to be picked up. Packaged. Possible disassembly required if it makes it easier to package. Then delivered to the...

canadianhobbymetalworkers.com

Hopefully something falls in your lap.

Dovetail machines aren’t taxed at 13%????! Really-Do you have a link or something I can review. That difference from 5% to 13% is huge! I need to verify!!! I am thinking of of PM machine now…

 

[slow-poke]

Fortunately we have a set of stairs from the garage to the basement, so I moved my LC30 mill (650lbs) to the basement in one piece solo. It took me about 8 hours though. It would have been much easier in pieces however that would also require some time. Three 2x8's and a skid plate. The walls were really close I measured top and bottom width and I had about 1" clearance 1/2" per side. Half way down the clearance became zero (concrete wall was narrower in the middle). Winched it back up, took the X-axis stepper drive and plenty of clearance.

 

[Intensemonerider]

Dovetail machines aren’t taxed at 13%????! Really-Do you have a link or something I can review. That difference from 5% to 13% is huge! I need to verify!!! I am thinking of of PM machine now…

You have my attention!!!

 

[Chipper5783]

I know a lot of folks are going to say that they bought the same machine 3 y/ago for way less but unfortunately we are being screwed by inflation. I am looking at a Baileigh VMD-15 and after all taxes, shipping etc it will be 4K to my door. I know that’s expensive but wanted some different opinions. I will struggle with a King PDM-30 (made in china) trying to get it into my basement and its footprint is just too much. Wondering if I am out to lunch paying that much for a brand new (made in Taiwan) name brand round column mill. Looking for a sanity check…

4K is not expensive if it works well for you and does what you want ($1K if it doesn’t do what you need is expensive). At the end of the day, the actual purchase price does not really matter very much. Don’t get sucked into the mind set that you could or can get a bit better machine for the same money or that can get exactly what you want - there is always a “better deal” and someone who will tell you about their fantastic deal or that you paid way too much. If it works for you and you keep it and enjoy it, then that in the long run the price does not matter. Waiting for the “best deal” means you will never buy anything.

Buy the highest quality, largest machine that your space, power and ability to move it can handle. Put the $$ number as a lower priority (It matters, but not as #1). If you buy the cheapest item out there, it is likely the lowest quality.

I think I way over paid for my first machine, I was a young guy with very little experience - but it was an okay quality very capable lathe ($10K in 1983). That was long ago, I still have that machine and use it a lot, it got me into a great hobby, I’ve learned a lot and if theres any regret it is that I should have bought something larger and fancier (back then I was more challenged on space, power and ability to move a 15x60). But it is still a decent machine.

If you get a better than “lowest quality”, then it can always be part of your fleet and it will sell on better if you choose that option. IMO, break the bank on your base machine and acquire the endless bits and pieces over the years (job dependent).

 

[Perry]

Dovetail machines aren’t taxed at 13%????! Really-Do you have a link or something I can review. That difference from 5% to 13% is huge! I need to verify!!! I am thinking of of PM machine now…

Duty and Tax are two different things. You don't think the government is going to let you off that easy? I brought my mill over the border from Grizzly tools in Bellingham, Washington. At the B.C. border they were all ready to collect the tax and the duty. I was prepared . A way type machine is duty free. I can not find the exact reference but I think if falls under 8459.10.00 00 -Way-type unit head machines in the Customs Tariff Schedule.

My problem started when they wanted to inspect the machine. A Dodge Caravan was cheaper to rent then a Cargo Van. Measurements of the crate showed it would fit thru the back hack on the Caravan. The Grizzly team neglected to tell me the crate was bolted to a pallet and they had not included that in the dimensions. We had to lay the crate down on its side to get it in the van. Took most of the Grizzly crew to man handle it into the van. It wasn't coming out with me and one customs guy. lol. It all worked out in the end, but if the customs guys wanted to be difficult it would have been tough.

 

[YYCHM]

RF30 Basement Install

Looking to borrow an engine hoist for a few days... Preferably something that can be disassembled and setup in a basement. Not sure what dates at the moment but probably within the next two weeks. I'm in the NE but willing to pickup anywhere in the Calgary local. Thanks, Craig

canadianhobbymetalworkers.com

 

[trlvn]

@Intensemonerider

trlvn's terrific travelling RF30 tale

We join the story slightly past the beginning. There is a long and boring saga between my purchase of this mill in August 2019* and relocating it to my basement (November 2021). Suffice to say it involved renovations, pandemics, illness, surgery, chemo, recovery and more renovations to get to...

canadianhobbymetalworkers.com

Moving an RF-30 type machine really isn't that hard. An engine hoist or similar makes it easier and safer for some of old farts.

BTW, looking at the specs for the Baileigh VMD-15, it has a small table, 7.5 X 23". That plus a smaller motor would be the main reasons it is quite a bit lighter. Mills take up a lot of space. If you ever need to crank the table all the way left and then all the way right, it demands a lot of air space.

You seem to have a lot of threads going at the same time but I don't understand what are the most important considerations to you. And if you have any hard constraints on space or 220V power or whatever.

Somebody recommended having a look at the Blondihacks channel on Youtube. She has done a lot of interesting stuff with a 10 inch lathe and small square-column mill. For example, she really pushed things while making a vertical steam engine recently. (Like the line boring operation on her lathe!) That may help you visualize better whether a particular size machine can do what you want.

Also, if you start with one size of machine and then decide to change, you can get a considerable amount from selling the now-used machine. There are many used machines on the market at any one time because they sell so fast! Conversely, if you spot a used machine, you need to have money in your pocket and be headed to the door as you contact the seller.

Craig

 

[Intensemonerider]

Thank you for that advice, it makes sense. I will looking up this Blondie character.

 

[PeterT]

My problem started when they wanted to inspect the machine. A Dodge Caravan was cheaper to rent then a Cargo Van. Measurements of the crate showed it would fit thru the back hack on the Caravan. The Grizzly team neglected to tell me the crate was bolted to a pallet and they had not included that in the dimensions. We had to lay the crate down on its side to get it in the van. Took most of the Grizzly crew to man handle it into the van. It wasn't coming out with me and one customs guy. lol. It all worked out in the end, but if the customs guys wanted to be difficult it would have been tough.

That is a very noteworthy thing to be aware of. I can totally see that happening with a more persnickety Customs official - 'show me what's in the crate or it's not going anywhere'. Perfect hiding place for an illegal alien to ride across the border rather than just walk LOL. Partial disassembly would be a major PITA tearing it apart just for a looksee & carry on with journey to the border.

 

[Former Member]

Don't be fooled by what the vendors say once you see machines in person, you will realize most are cast at the same casting house. What varies from brand to brand is components/tolerances that they spec and Mark-up that they charge.

Finally the big increase in all machines is shipping costs (container) which has in some cases gone up as 4-6 times what it was 3-4 years ago and that directly reflects in the current prices of doubling retail.

My two cents, stick local since you are close to the GTA as you have direct access.

 

[Dabbler]

About 20 years ago, I imported by car a rifle stock from Accuracy International. The Canadian distributor wanted 2.3X the American price. So I bought one and had it shipped to a friend in norther Washington state.

When crossing with a rifle part I found out you need to do an exit declaration and an import declaration to satisfy ITAR regs. At the US side, it was all cool. people walking around with glocks and uzis strapped to their belts. They looked at it and said "pah! bolt action stock, free to go" 2 minutes.

At the Canadian side, there was a ruckus. None of them people knew what to do. They kept asking me if the rifle was an automatic, and sever variations of that question. At one point ALL the border guards were standing there... I quoted the part of the regs and the section number, to help smooth things along. (none of the guards were armed and none seemed familiar with firearms)

After 2 hours, I was down to one older guy. He was confused and worried looking. I actually showed him wow to look up the section on his computer system. I finally and pointedly told him it was time to get his boss on the line. Didn't make him happy. but after wrangling it out, he finally made the call.

Nearly an hour later a bleary eyed (he was in bed) border guy in almost dress uniform came in, and I explained the whole schtick to him again.... Within 5 minutes of discussion and him examining the bolt notch, and looking it up in the internet, he let me go, and for all my trouble sent me on my way sans fees. Which was good, but there was about 200$ that should have been due!