Wow, that's a complicated way of saying "heated".
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- Thread starter DPittman
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TorontoBuilder
Ultra Member
it is a defined term in international building codes as well as national and regional codes ..
It applies to homes in the tropics too that are not heated...
like this:? https://www.fab-form.com/fastfootMp/fastfootMpOverview.php
Isn't that expensive @TorontoBuilder ?
I looked into SIP panels thinking it would save me time and money. Time maybe but money no. for my garage addition they wanted $12K for walls and roof. I was surprised.
This system fast foot mono pour also looks expensive.
I'm looking at 2x6 walls with R20 batts and an external layer of R5-R10 rigid foam or maybe rigid fibreglass. I am estimating 4 or 5K for materials to do the basic framing and sheathing and insulating.
TorontoBuilder
Ultra Member
We must get away from speaking about the capital cost of a project alone, and look at the overall cost of ownership, appraised value and improved durability and comfort, as well as the "can't be screwed up factor"
That said, on a geometrically simple structure ICF walls typically add about $3-5 more per square foot, but in many cases the incremental costs can be reduced to nearly nothing. But you need to have a very good plan and know what you're doing.
In my case, I have brought the cost close to par on a number of occasions by using frost protected slab on grade foundations on a compacted base. There are very little to no excavation cost associated with this method, The compacted base cost is on par with the cost of preparing a base for a floor below grade.
Then the key is to reduce the labour cost to lay out and set up the foundations and the main walls, and then to maximize efficiency of concrete placement to minimize the hordes of ancillary costs associated with using concrete. Monopouring the exterior footings and wall in a single day with a one time conveyor truck charge and eliminating additional cement truck surcharges by allowing additional trucks to simply dump their load into the conveyor trucks hopper.
The fast-foot monopour system footing material only costs $150 per 100 foot roll. Pre-sewn footing corners are about 11 bucks each, and the leveling feet for 100' feet long wall is just over $400. So the total cost of material to form footings and level the ICF forms is less than $600. By pouring the wall and footing on the same day you save hundreds in delivery fees.
Foundation prep is two days. Main walls are installed in two days. Floor insulation and radiant loop layout two days. One day for crew to pour the floor. Ready for roofing in a week.
TorontoBuilder
Ultra Member
My god man, haven't you heard that natural gas is EVIL. NG stoves are going to be verbotten, that bloody stuff will kill you. May take 80 or 90 years but who knows you might live longer.
Natural gas has a very long line to stand in as far as things that are likely to kill me and there are many many things that are miles ahead of it.My god man, haven't you heard that natural gas is EVIL. NG stoves are going to be verbotten, that bloody stuff will kill you. May take 80 or 90 years but who knows you might live longer.
I'll likely have a home built wood stove that will also burn used oil as a backup. And that outfit will have priority standing over NG in the line up of things to kill me.
historicalarms
Ultra Member
And there is the bugaboo that will sink any plans of doing the addition on the sly....the minute you ask your permitting branch for a gas permit before any tin-basher will set foot in the building, the first thing they will ask for is the "development permit pls"....no gas permit=no insurance if the unthinkable comes around.
Yes a good reminder of why I don't want to do anything that might cause later regrets. .. cuz those things ALWAYS bite me in the a$$ soon or later.
Matt-Aburg
Ultra Member
This is vey similar to my existing garage. It started as a deck that kept growing. I eventually had the whole building sided to cover the addition... My lean-to addition is basically a pole barn. I matched floor height, but it is a wood floor. Deck boards, with 3/4 sheeting on top.
I am wondering if it is how long the gas pipes have been in the ground and they don’t want to replace them just a thought.My god man, haven't you heard that natural gas is EVIL. NG stoves are going to be verbotten, that bloody stuff will kill you. May take 80 or 90 years but who knows you might live longer.
TorontoBuilder
Ultra Member
My god man, haven't you heard that natural gas is EVIL. NG stoves are going to be verbotten, that bloody stuff will kill you. May take 80 or 90 years but who knows you might live longer.
my good man, haven't you heard that heating with natural gas costs a heck of a lot more than heating with a heat pump?
TorontoBuilder
Ultra Member
nope.
But DYK that the pipeline that brings natural gas into eastern canada is too small to meet the winter demand? The summer is spent pumping in gas at the maximum pipe capacity and then pumping the gas into huge storage caverns in SW Ontario. Those caverns were originally excavated salt domes from the Windsor salt company and others.
A pretty sweet solution to reusing old mine sites created by solution mining...
I've heard that it's the other way around. Heat pumps don't seem very popular around here.
TorontoBuilder
Ultra Member
You have heard wrong.
The last decade has seen an explosion in air source cold climate heat pump technology. They use them in the arctic.
Ground source are also very popular but much much more expensive due to the need of ground loops for heat exchange.
All hvac products sold in Canada are tested and rated according to national standard. You can compare the costs using data from NRCan's website and a spreadsheet based on the total cost of nat gas and electricity from your local supplier.
I'm no expert but I think there are four factors at play here.
1. You live in the west where gas and oil are plentiful & prolly a lot cheaper.
2. People everywhere had BAD experiences with early heat pumps and now they don't want them. They have a bad Rep.
3. Heat pumps have improved significaally. They will operate in a much wider range of temps now and their efficiency has improved by leaps and bounds.
4. On the flip side, electricity is getting very expensive since they phased out the more economical generation systems.
Yes I believe we have some of the cheapest natural gas and some of the most expensive electricity rates.
TorontoBuilder
Ultra Member
rates are regulated, and they are known and published regularly and consultants use them daily and the result is that cold climate heat pumps are cheaper to operate.
even in Alberta