Shop New lean to shop

[DPittman]

I know there is alot of building experience here on the forum so I figured I had better ask for opinions on a new shop build.

I'm eventually going to build a single slope roof/lean to shop onto an existing large machinery shed. All "plans" are unfixed and subject to change but I'm thinking size migh be a MAXIMUM of 25x40ft. The high wall/roof peak can be 16ft high. I will have one large overhead door and one walk in door.

Just like everyone else, I'm limited on what I can spend but don't really have a maximum number yet and don't know what cement and structure is going to cost. I want to try to avoid "wish I had done this or that when I built it" but also can't afford to build a "dream shop" either.

Any suggestions on building basics of a lean to style shop? Must haves or must avoid?

 

[Susquatch]

I have a similar plan to provide sun and rain shelter for large equipment. No floor, no doors, just a roof overhead. The municipality gave me so much grief that I've pretty much abandoned the idea. Might do a standalone structure instead.

What are you leaning it onto?

 

[RobinHood]

Post & beam construction?

I would design it for maximum insulation - R40 or better. Get the best insulated overhead door (R28 is what I could find; it’s a commercial door).

Insulated concrete floor with rebar - not just the standard residential mesh; 6” thick.

Even if you don’t put in-floor heating, a well insulated, air tight building makes a huge difference in the winter (lower heating costs - if you choose to heat it) and in the summer (won’t heat up if you keep the doors closed).

 

[DPittman]

I have a similar plan to provide sun and rain shelter for large equipment. No floor, no doors, just a roof overhead. The municipality gave me so much grief that I've pretty much abandoned the idea. Might do a standalone structure instead.

What are you leaning it onto?

It's going to be built onto an existing exterior wall of a large machinery shed. I haven't priced things out yet but it probably won't be a whole lot cheaper than a stand alone building, but a lean to style I think makes better use of the space I have and it will at least share one wall with the other building.
Why would your municipality give you grief over such a simple structure?

 

[DPittman]

Post & beam construction?

I would design it for maximum insulation - R40 or better. Get the best insulated overhead door (R28 is what I could find; it’s a commercial door).

Insulated concrete floor with rebar - not just the standard residential mesh; 6” thick.

Even if you don’t put in-floor heating, a well insulated, air tight building makes a huge difference in the winter (lower heating costs - if you choose to heat it) and in the summer (won’t heat up if you keep the doors closed).

Yes I was thinking very similar but I did not consider/know about insulated concrete floor.

I don't think I'll have in floor heating but I wonder if I should be putting in the pipes right from the start in case I change my mind or for resale value.

Unfortunately I don't think I'll be able to enjoy this place for 30-40 years but hopefully maybe 20? Resale value is a consideration. I might be able to justify some expenditures on resale value alone while enjoying them in the short term???

Boy if I had more youth AND more money, I do some GREAT things!

 

[Susquatch]

Why would your municipality give you grief over such a simple structure?

Prolly cuz it's simple! LOL.

They are concerned that the existing wall will not support its share of the new roof. Nobody has drawings, and I don't want to be putting an engineering stamp on my own construction - conflict of interest.

So unless somebody blinks, it will have to be standalone built up against the existing structure.

 

[Susquatch]

I might be able to justify some expenditures on resale value alone while enjoying them in the short term???

Hmmmm. Might be different out west. Here in Ontario, farms are sold on acreage and soil quality. Nobody gives anybody a red cent for buildings. At most, it might drive preference. My pole barn cost the previous owner a fortune. But it was free to me.

 

[DPittman]

Hmmmm. Might be different out west. Here in Ontario, farms are sold on acreage and soil quality. Nobody gives anybody a red cent for buildings. At most, it might drive preference. My pole barn cost the previous owner a fortune. But it was free to me.

Well I'm sure it depends on the area somewhat, but in this instance out buildings that add to the value to it as a farm yard or acreage would be a good thing.

 

[Janger]

Lunch time! Same problem here in Calgary. Anything connected to the existing building (except shingles) requires an engineering stamp and review (And $$$). For my garage addition project I'm now considering a strange design where the trusses are underneath the existing garage trusses. Reduced head space. Also the foundation has to match the existing garage so that means a concrete garage pad. The addition has to be a complete standalone building. I have to ask a truss company about how this structure could be supported.

 

[DPittman]

Lunch time! Same problem here in Calgary. Anything connected to the existing building (except shingles) requires an engineering stamp and review (And $$$). For my garage addition project I'm now considering a strange design where the trusses are underneath the existing garage trusses. Reduced head space. Also the foundation has to match the existing garage so that means a concrete garage pad. The addition has to be a complete standalone building. I have to ask a truss company about how this structure could be supported.

View attachment 35531

Your image is very similar to what I'm imagining for my project. This will be in a farm yard so I'm hoping alot of the red tape and approval process might not be necessary?

 

[Susquatch]

This will be in a farm yard so I'm hoping alot of the red tape and approval process might not be necessary?

I hope you are right.

Being a farm building didn't help me at all. Hopefully Sask/Alta is different.

 

[6.5 Fan]

Being a farm building didn't help me at all. Hopefully Sask/Alta is different.

In my municipality there is no building codes for farm buildings, some apply to houses. Some RM's may have building codes for farms, depends on how anal the council has become.

 

[YotaBota]

This will be in a farm yard so I'm hoping alot of the red tape and approval process might not be necessary?

Will it be seen from the road? if not, build it to code and then later if needed you can beg for forgiveness.

 

[DPittman]

Will it be seen from the road? if not, build it to code and then later if needed you can beg for forgiveness.

Hee hee. I'd be tempted to do that but I don't think I will, I never have gotten away with things like that and usually regret trying.

 

[Dan Dubeau]

That's what happens around here. They ep zoned almost everything, so if you want an outbuilding you have to pay for a 4 season environmental study to get a permit. Even if it is a farm use building, on a working farm. All the farmers I know, just build it, and worry about it later. Our municipality has an identity crisis, and has forgot about it's rural roots and has it's fingers in it's ears about all the still working farms in the area. Too much big city migration.

 

[Susquatch]

Our municipality has an identity crisis, and has forgot about it's rural roots and has it's fingers in it's ears about all the still working farms in the area. Too much big city migration.

Same here. Drives me crazy.

If you move here you move to Farm country and should embrace the difference. If you want to bring city rules with you, then stay there and leave us alone!

 

[TorontoBuilder]

I know there is alot of building experience here on the forum so I figured I had better ask for opinions on a new shop build.

I'm eventually going to build a single slope roof/lean to shop onto an existing large machinery shed. All "plans" are unfixed and subject to change but I'm thinking size migh be a MAXIMUM of 25x40ft. The high wall/roof peak can be 16ft high. I will have one large overhead door and one walk in door.

Just like everyone else, I'm limited on what I can spend but don't really have a maximum number yet and don't know what cement and structure is going to cost. I want to try to avoid "wish I had done this or that when I built it" but also can't afford to build a "dream shop" either.

Any suggestions on building basics of a lean to style shop? Must haves or must avoid?

First thing we need to know is will it be conditioned or unconditioned space?

DIY components or strictly contracted out to professionals?

What fuel sources are available to you if you choose the conditioned space option

 

[TorontoBuilder]

I hope you are right.

Being a farm building didn't help me at all. Hopefully Sask/Alta is different.

On a farm anywhere in Canada you will be hit with a full review if your building usage includes a human occupancy component and you include conditioned space.

Even small structures less than 16 meters square will require permit and review if you add plumbing. Once you trigger a review they review everything in most jurisdictions

However, many types of farm buildings dont require permit if they meet certain conditions, which is why you now see so many fabric covered storage sheds, they dont require permit in most instances. My old 16' x 32' greenhouse did not require permit for instance. It did not have a "plumbing system" but was rather supplied by a hose from another structure. It sat on a crushed stone drainage bed to allow any water to slowly infiltrate the soil below and around the greenhouse

 

[DPittman]

First thing we need to know is will it be conditioned or unconditioned space?

DIY components or strictly contracted out to professionals?

What fuel sources are available to you if you choose the conditioned space option

I'm not familiar with those terms but I suspect "conditioned or unconditioned" means heating and plumbing?
There will be no plumbing but it will be heated by natural gas.
The floor and main structure will be contracted out but I will likely have to do the finishing inside. I'm too old (and too inexperienced) to tackle concrete and building again. My garage was 25 years ago and that was about all I could handle even back then.

 

[TorontoBuilder]

I'm not familiar with those terms but I suspect "conditioned or unconditioned" means heating and plumbing?
There will be no plumbing but it will be heated by natural gas.
The floor and main structure will be contracted out but I will likely have to do the finishing inside. I'm too old (and too inexperienced) to tackle concrete and building again. My garage was 25 years ago and that was about all I could handle even back then.

Conditioned space means space within a building in which the temperature is controlled to limit variation in response to the exterior ambient temperature or interior differential temperatures by the provision, either directly or indirectly, of heating or cooling over substantial portions of the year.

As soon as you decide to make it conditioned space you trigger a host of requirements and reviews and basically have to meet an energy efficiency standard as far as the performance of the building envelop and the mechanical system. In such cases care should be taken to select a design to provide the best long term cost versus trying to minimize the construction costs. As well you should select options to maximize human comfort if you want to use it 8-10 hours a day in winter. Big shops are notorious for having terrible comfort.

In my planned shop my brother and I will have air source heat pump that heats a simple radiant floor, and a small forced air system to provide supplemental heating and humidification in winter, and air conditioning in the summer... for the humidity control to protect equipment. Properties with such shops sell at a premium in Ontario.

In our case we plan to go the DIY route for our walls and footers using what is called fast-foot monopour system. We will also prep our floors and radiant loops and contract out the floor slab pour and finish. Then we will contract out the roof truss installation and roofing.