Manual use of CNC machine

[slow-poke]

I often hear comments to the effect "I don't want CNC because I want to be able to use my machine manually.

So do I often. One does not preclude the other.

Images of manual controls for my lathe.

There are two rotary switches and a MPG.

- The MPG emulates the hand wheels, it's graduated in 100 "ticks"
- The first rotary switch, lets you select either: nothing, the X axis, the Z axis, or the compound axis
- The second rotary switch lets you select either: 0, 0.0001", 0.001", or 0.01" per tick

-Action video showing carriage moves with MPG (Z-axis) https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/vkkw...ey=k5ghuzzkk6mujk25axft44q8e&st=m2ldco40&dl=0

 

[slow-poke]

- The compound axis is actually performed in software using angleJog. angleJog simply calculates the correct X & Z ticks for the desired angle.
This has a couple of benefits:
1) the machine is much more rigid without the actual compound. This actually makes a significant improvement on this small 10" lathe
2) setting the angle is as simple as typing it in.

 

[PeterT]

That's pretty darn cool. Lets say you definitely did not want CNC but wanted your dial setup (more as a retrofit to a manual machine). Could it operate through a black box only or do you always require some kind of controller app running in the background?

 

[slow-poke]

That's pretty darn cool. Lets say you definitely did not want CNC but wanted your dial setup (more as a retrofit to a manual machine). Could it operate through a black box only or do you always require some kind of controller app running in the background?

You would need some sort of simple blackbox.

So many ways to do something like this.

Off the top of my head....

1) The MPG produces quadrature signals, a FlipFlop will convert those signals to step and direction (that's what the stepper or servo needs)
2) That step signal then needs to be scaled
3) The scaled signal then needs to routed to the correct servo.

Fairly trivial, could be done one small PCB

 

[Chipper5783]

Both my CNCs (lathe and mill), came that way from the factory with the capability for manual moves. I thought they all did.

I have three good running manual milling machines, I rarely use them (they each have features that other members of the family don’t: size, tilts, torque, attachments - whatever). But even for one off operations the CNC mill is the goto machine - like @slow-poke says.

The CNC machines have a jog feature that one can dial the speed on, or use the hand wheel - select which axis and what step size. Works great for quick cuts, drilling a hole etc. Obviously that gets old when you can just throw in a few lines of code or use the MDI (manual data input). However, slow-poke’s point is very valid, many CNC machines can be operated as manual machines.

 

[David]

I use the hand wheel on my CNC mill's pendant all the time as a 'manual' machine.

 

[slow-poke]

Both my CNCs (lathe and mill), came that way from the factory with the capability for manual moves. I thought they all did.

Go figure, I have never purchased or worked on a factory built CNC machine. I just convert my manual machines.

 

[slow-poke]

You would need some sort of simple blackbox.

So many ways to do something like this.

Off the top of my head....

1) The MPG produces quadrature signals, a FlipFlop will convert those signals to step and direction (that's what the stepper or servo needs)
2) That step signal then needs to be scaled
3) The scaled signal then needs to routed to the correct servo.

Fairly trivial, could be done one small PCB

If I did a blackbox controller, I would probably just use the cheapest smallest Arduino with NVRAM to store the scale factors and backlash values. Something < $10 that would fit in a off the shelf Hammond box.

Hammond 1591BSBK ABS Project Box Black by Hammond : Amazon.ca: Tools & Home Improvement

Hammond 1591BSBK ABS Project Box Black by Hammond : Amazon.ca: Tools & Home Improvement

www.amazon.ca

 

[slow-poke]

Mini / Type-C / Micro USB Nano 3.0 With the bootloader compatible Nano controller for arduino CH340 USB driver 16Mhz ATMEGA328P - AliExpress 502

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

www.aliexpress.com

 

[Susquatch]

You would need some sort of simple blackbox.

I use the hand wheel on my CNC mill's pendant all the time as a 'manual' machine.

Isn't it easier to just put a hand crank on the lead screw? Then you could call it manual cuz it really is.

 

[slow-poke]

I think some might be looking for an alternative to a conventional power feed.

Especially when an OTS power feed is not available for their machine, or:
- they want precise movement control
- they want backlash compensation
- compound movement without a compound

 

[Susquatch]

I think some might be looking for an alternative to a conventional power feed.

Especially when an OTS power feed is not available for their machine, or:
- they want precise movement control
- they want backlash compensation
- compound movement without a compound

Of course!

And some just want plain simple manual with no electronics to worry about.

Heck, I am an electronics guy and I don't want electronics either. Makes no sense to those that do but avoiding electronics makes for a much simpler life even for those that are comfy with it.

 

[gerritv]

I have a joystick with AliExpress SMC02 stepper controller on X of my KC20VS mill. Dial the speed and feed away. Separate feed rates for left and right.

 

[Susquatch]

I have a joystick with AliExpress SMC02 stepper controller on X of my KC20VS mill. Dial the speed and feed away. Separate feed rates for left and right.

Oh ya?

Well, I have a fully manual system using an organic cellular front paw system with live automatic control of speed and torque based on real-time correction from my advanced audio/video/tactile feedback system. Infinitely variable and fully reversable on the fly too! It predates transistors and integrated circuits and still working albeit a little more methodical and a little better built in dithering.

 

[Chipper5783]

If a person wants a manual machine, then they should get a manual machine.

I think the OP’s point was to challenge the idea that if you get a CNC machine then you can’t do any quick little manual jobs. With a CNC machine you can usually run in manual or CNC.

Perhaps there are machines that are CNC only (I’m not sure how one would do setups without the ability to do manual moves, but there are a LOT of things I don’t know. Maybe?)?

 

[jcdammeyer]

This project #42 is stalled while I complete some other ones.

It's a piggy back board for my ELS where the prototype has software perfectly ported to the PIC32 processor. Plugs into the ELS instead of the 8 bit PIC processor.

But this new board also has a Y axis in addition to X and Z, handles full quadrature encoders for the spindle and can do PWM output for spindle speed control.

In addition to improving the original Lathe ELS the idea was also to create a Mill ELS. For machines where full CNC isn't wanted this one would create the ability to have power feed on all axis. Set start and end positions and be able to do a programmed move from start to end at a specific speed. The trajectory planner would be able to do simultaneous moves so something like the GCode
G1 X2 Y3 F20

But it's currently Project #42 and has been there for more than 4 years.

 

[Dan Dubeau]

I used Haas CNC's for many years as manual machines (in addition to full CNC operation) with a jog wheel and selector switch. IMO they were the best Manual mills we had in the entire shop (bigger work envelope, more rigid, more HP, more accurate, preset cat 40 tooling, flood and enclosure, and more). I wish my Tormach had the same kind of hand control. I find the stock Tormach wheel to be very lacking. Someday I might do something about it, but it doesn't bug me enough yet. I have a much better manual machine sitting right next to it when I need it.....

I know there are some plug and play compatibility issues with many of the aftermarket jog wheels with pathpilot and I'm not smart enough to figure out how to fix that......