• Scam Alert. Members are reminded to NOT send money to buy anything. Don't buy things remote and have it shipped - go get it yourself, pay in person, and take your equipment with you. Scammers have burned people on this forum. Urgency, secrecy, excuses, selling for friend, newish members, FUD, are RED FLAGS. A video conference call is not adequate assurance. Face to face interactions are required. Please report suspicions to the forum admins. Stay Safe - anyone can get scammed.

machine paint?

Canadium

Canadium

Ian
I'm having a heck of a time finding a decent paint for restoring my lathes. I've researched this subject recently until I was blue in the face and I'm still very frustrated with the lack of materials available in Canada. I've identified 4 major applicable paint types.

1/epoxy

2/polyurethane

3/oil based alkyd enamels

4/powder paints

Most industrial users seem to use either epoxy or polyurethane paints. Epoxy paints are expensive running into hundreds of dollars for a gallon, the smallest available size. Polyurethanes have extremely hazardous fumes and hence probably not good for hobbyist use. Powder paints need to be baked in an oven so only small parts are possible to paint without a huge and expensive dedicated oven. Powder paints also are not easy to find locally. Princess Auto has only black, red and blue.

That leaves the oil based alkyd enamels. Most of what appears to be available in Canada now is either Tremclad or Krylon rust paints. My impression is that neither of these are up to scratch for the job. TSC stores (now Peavy Mart) used to have a nice "Farm and Implement" paint but that seems to have been discontinued. Many other brands are found across the border in the US but shipping fees are prohibitive. ie. Ace Rust Stop, Masterchem Hammerite, Rustoleum Farm and Implement, POR 15, etc. All paints seem to be a lot more expensive in Canada. For example a one quart can of Rustoleum Smoke Grey on Amazon costs 2X what is paid a short distance across the border. I'm wondering what others here use to paint their machines and projects, how your paints worked out for you, and where you sourced your materials.
 
I used Tremclad on a 14" shaper I restored. First a general cleaning, then a commercial (PPC) degreaser, follower by an etch primer (LORDCO) and then then the Tremclad. Stuck like glue and after 5-7 years no issues. (sold after that)

I find it is usually the prep that is the issue more than what you use.
 
@Canadium : I used the Primer and top coats of the Farm Implement Enamel from TSC stores. TSC is now Peavey Mart and it appears that they no longer carry the colours and quantities of the paint - just 7 choices of rattle can size - that sucks.....and you have already looked into it.

I guess they are clamping down and trying to remove the VOC issues by eliminating the best paints from the guys who cannot set up the correct containment. Lovely. I run into the issues when doing cabinets as the paints that set fast and cure quickly are also not available except to the big guns. The regular Joe is left with some pretty shite choices - Benjamin Moore Advance can take up to 28 days to fully cure - hard to get a set of cabinets out of the shop at that slow rate.

As @Tomc938 suggests, the big factor is prep and making sure things are all clean, no oils etc and then have some sort of climate control so your cure is at a steady rate with reasonable humidity. Then I would load up Tremclad into the spray gun and have at it. Shoot the parts down with a good primer base, sand as required, wipe clean and apply a few good coats of the Tremclad. Make sure you let things fully cure before letting the oil to it.


A 2 part epoxy would be the cats meow but it may be a killer to source and buy if you are not an industrial company?


CHC Paint & Body Shop Supplies (Hamilton)
83 Bigwin Rd.
Hamilton, Ontario L8W 3R3
905-575-9517

905-388-9069

1-800-647-6050
PPG Tech Line

Maybe these guys can help you out with a good quality base paint?

There is also these guys : https://www.industrialpaintcoatings.com/commercial#epoxy
 
Thermaclad is the cheap option - it is cheap, easily available and you can rarely get it for 1/2 regular price on sales.

Negative is that you get what you pay for, pain layer is thin and pain itself is soft and easily peals off.

You can occasionally get cheap enamel paint - it is like liquid plastic. If you do not care too much about colors that sucker is hard to beat. Layer is thick. Not easy to paint.

For general restorationa and "quick" job I would use regular thermaclad - this is what pp use and what I use. For pro job I would go step up.

Go check out 2nd hand stores etc. They have sometimes pro paint cheap. Color selection will not exist.
 
I had an excellent finish with Benjamin Moore's Urethane Alkyd Enamel and Wooster microfiber rollers
 

Attachments

  • 20210525_143612 (1).jpg
    20210525_143612 (1).jpg
    367.1 KB · Views: 8
I used to spray Endura on my RC planes back in the day because of the high (40% nitro) fuel. They have every color under the sun. Smith McLeay is Calgary distributer
http://www.hpc.ca/
Its bulletproof & impervious to spirits & oils & most common fluids the machine will ever see. Its used extensively on industrial equipment, aircraft, race cars... They offer pint sizes of most everything including an excellent primer/sealer favored by the aircraft industry because aluminum can be a bugger. However, nasty high isocyanates. I had a good carbon filter mask & sprayed in my 'atmospheric paint booth' then hustled the parts inside the shop before the bugs started getting stuck. Its meant to be sprayed but is actually a bit thicker than most auto catalyzed 2K paints so somewhat lends itself to brush & roller. I only did a bit of that on things like toolbox, engine test stand etc. Application seemed OK, but its not quite as viscous as Tremclad.

This issue was discussed before & someone suggested an additive to Tremclad that helped with cure & ?possibly? toughness. I painted my steel mill stand with it & it seems as good or better than whatever they used in Taiwan for the machine. If it were me I'd buy a sample & just try it on representative metal coupon.

A lot of the current (base/clear) auto paints these days are somewhat similar in that the base color layer bay be lower iso or otherwise safer, but is always intended to be top coated with catalyzed (higher iso) clear so not as convenient as the 1-shot paints. And a lot of paint supply shops are fussy about who they sell to. I used to get PPG at local Napa dealers. Its been years but I think they require you show them some kind of authorized paint booth number because some guy poisoned himself in a makeshift environment & they don't want lawsuits.
 
Last edited:
PeterT said:
I used to spray Endura on my RC planes back in the day because of the high (40% nitro) fuel. They have every color under the sun. Smith McLeay is Calgary distributer
http://www.hpc.ca/
Its bulletproof & impervious to spirits & oils & most common fluids the machine will ever see. Its used extensively on industrial equipment, aircraft, race cars... They offer pint sizes of most everything including an excellent primer/sealer favored by the aircraft industry because aluminum can be a bugger. However, nasty high isocyanates. I had a good carbon filter mask & sprayed in my 'atmospheric paint booth' then hustled the parts inside the shop before the bugs started getting stuck. Its meant to be sprayed but is actually a bit thicker than most auto catalyzed 2K paints so somewhat lends itself to brush & roller. I only did a bit of that on things like toolbox, engine test stand etc. Application seemed OK, but its not quite as viscous as Tremclad.

This issue was discussed before & someone suggested an additive to Tremclad that helped with cure & ?possibly? toughness. I painted my steel mill stand with it & it seems as good or better than whatever they used in Taiwan. If it were me I'd buy a sample & just try it on representative metal coupon.

A lot of the current (base/clear) auto paints these days are somewhat similar in that the base color layer bay be lower iso or otherwise safer, but is always intended to be top coated with catalyzed (higher iso) clear so not as convenient as the 1-shot paints. And a lot of paint supply shops are fussy about who they sell to. I used to get PPG at local Napa dealers. Its been years but I think they require you show them some kind of authorized paint booth number because some guy poisoned himself in a makeshift environment & they don't want lawsuits.
Click to expand...
I can vouch for the durability and beautiful finish that Dupont Endura paint can give. My fabric covered ultralight is finished with that and looks great (for a fabric covered home built plane ). The flexibility of the stuff is amazing and apparently holds its' colour really well for years and years.

However, it very expensive and is a two part epoxy type paint that has a limited pot life once it is mixed up. As @PeterT mentioned you need a good respirator as it is (or was) toxic nasty stuff. I painted part of my plane myself with it but it was mostly a train wreck and I wasted alot. I had no experience painting and did not have a good setup to do so. After giving up trying and many years of a standstill I finally bellied up and paid someone that knew what he was doing to finish the job for me. Expensive lesson for me all around. But hey the plane looks "pretty fly for a white guy" Offspring.
 
DPittman said:
I can vouch for the durability and beautiful finish that Dupont Endura paint can give. My fabric covered ultralight is finished with that and looks great (for a fabric covered home built plane ). The flexibility of the stuff is amazing and apparently holds its' colour really well for years and years.

However, it very expensive and is a two part epoxy type paint that has a limited pot life once it is mixed up. As @PeterT mentioned you need a good respirator as it is (or was) toxic nasty stuff. I painted part of my plane myself with it but it was mostly a train wreck and I wasted alot. I had no experience painting and did not have a good setup to do so. After giving up trying and many years of a standstill I finally bellied up and paid someone that knew what he was doing to finish the job for me. Expensive lesson for me all around. But hey the plane looks "pretty fly for a white guy" Offspring.
Click to expand...

Post some pics of this ultralight please.
 
Some buddies of mine were using PTI purchased through AS&S in reasonable qty & I seem to recall single stage enamel? They make so many types of paints so probably more brain overload.
https://www.aircraftspruce.ca/catalog/cspages/ptispecialtypaint.php?clickkey=9130

Endura G90 Low VOC polyurethane might be another option judging by the application guide. Probably if you called them they could guide you & get some more insight into suitable paint chemistries & how that compares to alternatives. https://www.endurapaint.com/product/g90-low-voc-color-coat/
ps - you can see the range of primers & sealers. Suspect many are overkill & maybe not in typical smallish quantities.
https://www.endurapaint.com/products/primers/

Paint systems are not cheap so kind of pays to research & stick with a system. I haven't read too many stories about people saying their Tremclad fell of the machine, but for every individual there is a different permutation of skill / effort / luck. Oily cast iron has to be the worst surface to try & restore so prep is probably 95% of success.
 
@Canadium I have purchased 2 types of industrial finishes from Dulux Calgary.

1: it is Fast dry Gloss 4318 industrial alkyd - I paid 59 bucks per gallon. Slightly softer than I like, but the 20 minute tack time makes up for that.
2: The other one dries rock hard but takes about 3 days in dry summer conditions. If you are curious I'll dig down to that gallon.

My personal preference has always been 2 part polyurethane, but we're talking north of $150 per gallon, so I compromised on alkyd.

Tremclad is a waste of time. Suitable for painting a utility trailer that gets hard use and doesn't matter. Expect to recoat after a few years.

I gave up on endura, only because of the short shelf life. I lost about $200 in endura (a shockingly small amount) after a year in the cans - so use it if you can use it up, and get your value out of it. Unmistakably a great paint, one of the best.
 
Good points Dabbler. Yes I'm off to the fire dept dropoff myself soon to make my bi-annual journey of expired paint and similar $$ chemical donations.

Do you recall when you bought Dulux 4318? I googled the website & that product number didn't come up. They have 2 lines under specialty paint (or inserting metal into their search bar). A quick dry waterborne alkyd & what they call Metalclad. The alkyd I get the impression is more for less strenuous purposes? The Metalclad loos like a fit but pretty basic color selection.
https://www.dulux.ca/diy/products/specialty-paints
https://www.dulux.ca/diy/products/specialty-paints/dulux-x-pert-waterborne-alkyd
https://www.dulux.ca/diy/products/specialty-paints/Dulux-Metalclad

Part of what makes Tremclad hard to define is they make so many products, sometimes under or hyphenated Rustoleum line. I was under impression Tremclad liquid (in a can), what they call oil based or rust paint (goofy words IMO) is an Alkyd. Of course manufacturer formulations vary so Alkyd-A may be better than Alkyd-B. But Tremclad also makes 'rust' paint in a spray bomb (alkyd?) and another line they say enamel and another line in high heat and.... the only common word is 'rust' which probably came from their marketing department to appeal to weekend warriors.
https://www.rustoleum.ca/product-catalog/consumer-brands/tremclad/rust-paint
https://www.grainger.ca/en/product/PAINT-TREMCLAD-FLAT-BLACK-1-QUART/p/RLM254932

I think Alkyd used to generally mean 'tougher' paint, but especially now with different binders, VOCs, environmental, disposal guidelines... things have changed. Hard to know what you're buying. My buddy was talking about catalyzed water based lacquers for interior use ...strings of words you wouldn't see on the same can label years ago.
https://www.doityourself.com/stry/all-you-need-to-know-about-alkyd-paint
 
To make things even more complicated I'm seeing many paints that are described as alkyd urethane fortified. I take this to mean it is a mix of alkyd and urethane components. The Dulux Metalclad is a case in point.
 
In the past I've had the local auto paint shop make up spray cans that so far have worked well. They work out to be about 2x the cost of Tremclad but you get the exact colour you want and you have the paint code for next time.
Edit - I just checked the can and it's a urethane base.
 
Last edited:
@PeterT I purchased the 4318 last month at the Calgary North store on 12 St NW. Their industrial coatings don't seem to be on their website. I normally stay away from 'quick dry' products, but I really like this one. Minimlal prep and it sticks like crazy. I had it tinted to a facsimile of 'LeBlond green'.
 
So I made inquiries with my local Dulux dealer. Before I can buy anything there it appears that I need to be a member with a $20 membership fee. What a racket! Anyone else here faced this when they were trying to buy paint?
 
No you just register as a business. no membership needed. You have to be a business to buy acetone there anyway. (they're cheaper than HD)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top