Machine KMS/MAGNUM 4x6 metal bandsaw - check your blades!

[Arbutus]

So this all started about 6 months ago when I bought a Magnum 4x6 bandsaw from KMS Tools.

The machine is well made, thoughtfully designed and it works perfectly. The blade length is reported by the manufacturer as 1460mm or 56.5 inches and after measuring with string around the wheels, I can report that it is between 1450mm and 1470mm between minimum and maximum tension. So that is correct.

The problem is that blade manufacturers (Olson, Lenox, etc) are producing and selling blades that simply do not fit this machine. The blades are cut to "almost" the right length, +/- ONE INCH. But usually +1". Because the tension adjustment is quite small on this machine, this cutting sloppiness makes these blades useless.

I purchased three blades for this saw yesterday, they are all too large by between 1/2" and 1" despite the Lenox label professing the blade length. i.e. the blade manufacturers started with the machine's maximum blade length of 1470mm then added their "tolerance" of +1/2 to 1" and produced thousands of blades that are far too large to fit anything. What a waste! These incorrect blades are stocked as 54" length at KMS but these DO NOT fit the 4x6 saw, so be warned. All of these blades are mislabelled in the store.

The correct length should be between 57" and 57.8", ideally 57.5".

The downside is that custom blades via KMS Tools are 5-6 weeks turnaround, or alternatively take the oversize blades to a dealer and have them recut and rewelded at $15/each. Thats a lot to fix a $30 blade.

Lovely saw, great support from KMS, crappy blade manufacturers. Cost a week of work. Not happy right now.

 

[Janger]

Allblades.ca

Not sure where you are located but in Alberta these guys are good.

 

[RobinHood]

How about making your own little jig and take a too long blade, cut it, grind the bevels and weld/braze it back together to the required size.

Would save you some $s and you would be able to use the blades you have.

Here is just one video of how to; there are may more.

 

[Everett]

I've never used the Lenox blades on my 4x6 saw. It's a King, but probably got cast in the same foundry. Once I broke the original King blade I went to the Starrett blades and they have been great for me, no complaints. Only issue is when I try to cut some scrap piece before testing its hardness . . . that one has gotten me twice and prematurely ended those two blades.

Thanks for the heads up though, this has given me reason to stay with the Starrett ones!

 

[Arbutus]

How about making your own little jig and take a too long blade, cut it, grind the bevels and weld/braze it back together to the required size.

Would save you some $s and you would be able to use the blades you have.

Here is just one video of how to; there are may more.

Ohhhh! Another project! Actually that is a pretty good idea

 

[Arbutus]

I've never used the Lenox blades on my 4x6 saw. It's a King, but probably got cast in the same foundry. Once I broke the original King blade I went to the Starrett blades and they have been great for me, no complaints. Only issue is when I try to cut some scrap piece before testing its hardness . . . that one has gotten me twice and prematurely ended those two blades.

Thanks for the heads up though, this has given me reason to stay with the Starrett ones!

Yeah - I keep an old file next to the saw to test the scraps. It has saved a few blades!

 

[Susquatch]

Thanks for the heads up though, this has given me reason to stay with the Starrett ones!

The biggest problem with the Starrett blades is availability.

They sure are popular! I like mine too. I just can't find them in stock anyplace.

 

[YYCHM]

Bandsaw Blade Repair.......

I spotted a YouTube where a guy repaired a broken bandsaw blade using silver solder. I have 2 broken blades, some SS, Flux, torch, and Map gas so I thought what the hey lets give it a go. Clamp the blade ends together, apply flux and then silver solder. Probably a little to much SS there...

canadianhobbymetalworkers.com

 

[Arbutus]

Bandsaw Blade Repair.......

I spotted a YouTube where a guy repaired a broken bandsaw blade using silver solder. I have 2 broken blades, some SS, Flux, torch, and Map gas so I thought what the hey lets give it a go. Clamp the blade ends together, apply flux and then silver solder. Probably a little to much SS there...

canadianhobbymetalworkers.com

I recall trying to silver solder blades without much success. From the videos, the tapered joint and close fit are essential to the success of the weld. Silicon bronze brazing would create a stronger joint than SS, which would be my preference.

I had a chat with the owner of F&B Saws in Mission, BC. They are a Lennox dealer and I have worked with them for a long time. They will cut and reweld a blade for a nominal price ($10 ish). So - rather than chancing my welding expertise, I'll use the professionals to shorten the oversize Lenox blades.

Same problem with milling cutters. Now if only there was someone with a Quorn nearby.

 

[Aliva]

I've bought from these guys and have been pleased so far.

https://onlinesupply.ca/bandsaw-blades/custom-band-saw-blades

 

[Janger]

I recall trying to silver solder blades without much success. From the videos, the tapered joint and close fit are essential to the success of the weld. Silicon bronze brazing would create a stronger joint than SS, which would be my preference.

I had a chat with the owner of F&B Saws in Mission, BC. They are a Lennox dealer and I have worked with them for a long time. They will cut and reweld a blade for a nominal price ($10 ish). So - rather than chancing my welding expertise, I'll use the professionals to shorten the oversize Lenox blades.

Same problem with milling cutters. Now if only there was someone with a Quorn nearby.

I’ve had the same (poor) results trying to silver solder blades. Oh well. I’d rather make stuff than make tools but making tools for tools does seem to take up a lot of time!

Quorn grinder… yeah they look pretty good. I’ll hijack the thread here and ask Questions. A Quorn grinder … you said @Arbutus you were working on one and have temporarily shelved it. How long do you think building one will take? 52 weekends? What is involved finishing all the castings I imagine?

I don’t think the Quorn have an air tool slide - the Chinese t&cg’s I’ve fooled with have a lot of slop in the tool slide and else where on the forum we talked about the air slide versions being better. Do you think that is a gap in the Quorn? These guys below say their v3 of the kit and instructions are greatly improved. Think so?

Quorn Mk3 - FULL Material Kit - hemingwaykits.com

Unique projects for the small workshop owner. Please browse our Toolroom and Engine Bay for our latest project kits.

www.hemingwaykits.com

 

[boilerhouse]

At the plant I worked at, we stocked band saw blade material in large rolls, and the large DoAll vertical bandsaw had a blade welder manufactured right into the saw. It was pretty easy to make a blade after an attempt or two.

 

[trevj]

I’ve had the same (poor) results trying to silver solder blades. Oh well. I’d rather make stuff than make tools but making tools for tools does seem to take up a lot of time!

Quorn grinder… yeah they look pretty good. I’ll hijack the thread here and ask Questions. A Quorn grinder … you said @Arbutus you were working on one and have temporarily shelved it. How long do you think building one will take? 52 weekends? What is involved finishing all the castings I imagine?

I don’t think the Quorn have an air tool slide - the Chinese t&cg’s I’ve fooled with have a lot of slop in the tool slide and else where on the forum we talked about the air slide versions being better. Do you think that is a gap in the Quorn? These guys below say their v3 of the kit and instructions are greatly improved. Think so?

Quorn Mk3 - FULL Material Kit - hemingwaykits.com

Unique projects for the small workshop owner. Please browse our Toolroom and Engine Bay for our latest project kits.

www.hemingwaykits.com

Martin Model only goes to the Mk2. But less than half the price. I'd be hard to convince that the Mk3 is improved that much. https://www.martinmodel.com/collections/quorn-casting-sets
I have seen a lot of their engines completed, and the castings were pretty nice! I also got one of their VDH sets, done in Stainless Steel, a while back. They wanted a minimum of five orders, and were not much more than the standard sets, at that time.

I have seen some pretty nice air spindles that have been made, so there is nothing to stop a fella from adapting one, in, if he feels the need.
Somewhere in my archival collection, I have a few pictures of a Quorn that had been modified almost beyond recognition, per the maker's desire to solve what HE thought were it's shortcomings!

 

[trevj]

At the plant I worked at, we stocked band saw blade material in large rolls, and the large DoAll vertical bandsaw had a blade welder manufactured right into the saw. It was pretty easy to make a blade after an attempt or two.

Have done blades with silver solder, TIG welding, and a blade welder. TIG and the Blade welder really rely on a proper annealing to get any real use out of them.

 

[boilerhouse]

Yes, annealing the blade, done while the blade was still in the welder, was part of the process.

 

[gerritv]

Quorn grinder… yeah they look pretty good. I’ll hijack the thread here and ask Questions. A Quorn grinder … you said @Arbutus you were working on one and have temporarily shelved it. How long do you think building one will take? 52 weekends? What is involved finishing all the castings I imagine?

I will have one for sale in a few weeks. Selling for a friend, just waiting for some belt material.

 

[Six O Two]

I've tried welding band saw blades together in the past with mixed results. It's definitely pretty finicky.

On the other hand, I've actually been pretty content with the 56-5/8" bi-metal blades from Princess Auto for my 4x6 bandsaw. Might tide you over until the custom cut ones come in.

 

[Arbutus]

I will have one for sale in a few weeks. Selling for a friend, just waiting for some belt material.

Oh now thats interesting!

 

[Arbutus]

I've tried welding band saw blades together in the past with mixed results. It's definitely pretty finicky.

On the other hand, I've actually been pretty content with the 56-5/8" bi-metal blades from Princess Auto for my 4x6 bandsaw. Might tide you over until the custom cut ones come in.

Good to know! My other suppliers have no stock at the moment. That blade from PA is 1440mm, 1460 is the correct size and 1480 is too long.

 

[Arbutus]

I’ve had the same (poor) results trying to silver solder blades. Oh well. I’d rather make stuff than make tools but making tools for tools does seem to take up a lot of time!

Quorn grinder… yeah they look pretty good. I’ll hijack the thread here and ask Questions. A Quorn grinder … you said @Arbutus you were working on one and have temporarily shelved it. How long do you think building one will take? 52 weekends? What is involved finishing all the castings I imagine?

I don’t think the Quorn have an air tool slide - the Chinese t&cg’s I’ve fooled with have a lot of slop in the tool slide and else where on the forum we talked about the air slide versions being better. Do you think that is a gap in the Quorn? These guys below say their v3 of the kit and instructions are greatly improved. Think so?

Quorn Mk3 - FULL Material Kit - hemingwaykits.com

Unique projects for the small workshop owner. Please browse our Toolroom and Engine Bay for our latest project kits.

www.hemingwaykits.com

It was the air spindle that stumped me as I recall. There are some Asian grinders I've used which just don't do the job quite right due to the fit & finish.

The Quorn is a long term project, once the hobbing machine is done, I'll take another shot at the Quorn, but from castings this time instead of fabricating everything. Based on my current pace of work I'd say six months, at an hour or two per day to finish the Quorn.