I'm a great believer in SIB, regardless of price. Lying through their teeth on performance spec's deserves a direct shot back in pocket book imo. In fact I its more like a duty, the power to change the world lol.
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Jacobs Super Chuck or clone?
- Thread starter slow-poke
- Start date
I'm a great believer in SIB, regardless of price. Lying through their teeth on performance spec's deserves a direct shot back in pocket book imo. In fact I its more like a duty, the power to change the world lol.
mickeyf
Ultra Member
Does no one bu me find it a bit ironic that so many "keyless" chucks come with a wrench or some sort, or provisions (holes) for one?
Personally I have never been happy with them, but in fairness I have only used those on consumer quality hand held drills, never the fancy name brand models.
Personally I have never been happy with them, but in fairness I have only used those on consumer quality hand held drills, never the fancy name brand models.
It has bothered me too. Especially when I needed to rebuild a keyless Albrecht.
It seems contradictory, but I think it also makes a little sense. The best I can come up with why some "keyless" chucks still come with a wrench or have holes for one goes as follows:
The most common reason is overtightening. While keyless chucks are designed to be tightened by hand, they often self-tighten further during operation and sometimes become extremely tight, especially after high-torque drilling or when a bit jams. When this happens, it can become impossible to loosen the chuck by hand alone. A wrench provides the necessary leverage to break the grip and release the bit.
I've also read that some machinists also use a wrench to tighten a chuck to achieve maximum gripping force. I've never done that myself, and I don't recommend it, but that's what I have read.
Lastly, I think it's a convenience factor. In essence, while the primary advantage of a keyless chuck is quick, tool-free bit changes, wrench provisions are a pragmatic addition to handle situations where extra force is needed – typically for loosening an over-tightened chuck, or maybe as others have suggested, to ensure ultimate grip for demanding tasks.
ChazzC
Ultra Member
Tht's what I was told many years ago when I asked why a wrench wasn't included with a keyless chuck that had holes: "1) Shouldn't use a wrench to tighten & 2) If the chuck "self-tightened" you can use a wrench to free it – most folks already have a collection of pin wrenches [I do now], so we don't include one."
I was told that also: I try to remember to insert a drill until it bottoms out then pull it back a little.
Me too. And I do what Chazz does. But I've been questioning that for a while now. Ever since I rebuilt my Arbrecht and had a real good look at how it works. Every drill chuck I've ever seen tightens by extending the Jaws - not by retracting them.
Maybe it's all about loosening them. If the drill bit is bottomed how do you loosen the Jaws when they have to be retracted to do that? The grip on the bit stops them from retracting......
I dunno. As I've said several times now, I've never had this problem on my mill or lathe chucks.
That said, I have had it happen to me with a keyless hand drill. But they are not the same. They have to be hand tightened and then deliberately backed off to lock them. That's when the problems start. I have learned to hate that lock feature. It doesn't always work and my bits fall out. Sometimes it works too well and I can't get them out. I wish all my hand drill chucks were keyed like they were in the good old days.
If that is what is happening to others on their mills and lathes, then I feel for them. But I don't have answers.
Yup, the Dewalt, Makita, and Milwaukee keyless chucks all have a lock. I've found most users don't even know it.
Tighten the chuck by hand, then back it off till the lock clicks.
I did my best to confirm this - the Mikita technical department will swear it is true. If you contact the Rhom people, they assert that it isn't true - and Rohm makes most of the high end chucks for portable power tools.
I have no dog in this fight, but I stopped "locking" the chuck by backing off about 5 years ago, and no longer experience the drill suddenly getting loose in the chuck. FWIW
Downwindtracker2
Ultra Member
We used Rohm chucks on the drill presses in our mill maintenance shop . Chuck keys in a shop ? they don't have feet, they have wings. I caught a video where they explained how keyless chuck work.. They work on the camming principle . So they will spring the case and jam. Of course they got abused, the company supplied blacksmith drills (Silver & Demming) . Stupidity there. I would suggest pipe wrenches are more gentile than vise-grips . I use strap wrenches on mine at home. You can bugger up the threads if they are jammed enough, when that happened,the company simply replaced them then.
I don't really have a dog in this fight either. But if that chuck lock isn't real, then why do they have the reverse click it function? What purpose does it serve if not that? Why does it click if not deliberately? Why don't chucks for a lathe or a mill do this? Why is this only on power hand drills?
A million questions.
No answers.
Joni - Can you point me to a power hand drill with a chuck made by Rhom? I'd like to see one. How would I know that one is a Rhom?
This is the chuck on my Dewalt hand drill:
This is a random Rohm I found on the internet.
They sure look VERY similar. Even to where the writing is and the small recess on the Tip.
Edit - I also found this Rohm on the internet. Almost identical to the one on my Dewalt. (which supports what you said about Rohm being the major supplier).
skippyelwell
Ultra Member
Not much, maybe $50, you still have my address
@slow-poke I pay all I can afford for an Albrecht. so far they have been just out of my reach.
Not much, maybe $50, you still have my address
Where were you when I was looking for Albrecht chucks? Btw, if you have a tiny Albrecht Sensitive chuck - the one on the sliding arbour, I'm very very interested.
Totally depends on the size and condition. New regular sized (6mm to 13mm) Albrecht Chuck's go for between 500 to well north of a thousand dollars US Funds. In Canada, on Amazon they are over a grand. KBC sells a 1/4" for 800, and Global sells a 3/8" for 1150.
I'd expect to find the more common 6mm to 12mm used chucks in rough condition for 50, but a rebuild kit will set you back a few hundred more. McMaster Carr has the parts. Good condition used chucks of that size range are prolly 200 and up. Best to watch Kijiji and wait for someone who thinks that Albrecht chucks are just another off-shore brand.
trlvn
Ultra Member
Deals are out there. I can't recall exactly but I think I paid less than $200 in total for my three main keyless chucks. (Three different purchases; one Kijiji and the others were auction box lots, IIRC.)
I use the 3/8" Rohm on the lathe and switch to a keyed chuck for larger drills. The other 2 I use on the mill-drill. Honestly, I don't use the 1/2" Albrecht all that much since it chews up a lot of Z height. The 1/4" Rohm is great for very small holes.
Craig
I use the 3/8" Rohm on the lathe and switch to a keyed chuck for larger drills. The other 2 I use on the mill-drill. Honestly, I don't use the 1/2" Albrecht all that much since it chews up a lot of Z height. The 1/4" Rohm is great for very small holes.
Craig
Downwindtracker2
Ultra Member
I have a couple of Glacern brand chucks, Chinese/American made.
On Practical Machinist, this topic came up. One poster relayed their shop's experience with Rohm chucks . They were very pleased.
On Practical Machinist, this topic came up. One poster relayed their shop's experience with Rohm chucks . They were very pleased.
I paid $100 to a forum member for a 5/8 Albrecht. I thought that was a fantastic generous exchange that I was thrilled at. I love buying and selling to members. I also love the way we help each other make things possible that otherwise wouldn't be.
I also bought a 1/2 inch albrecht in a combination sale that included a 3/4" Keyed Golden Goose for 150 on Kijiji - say 75 each. The goose worked as is but I had to find a key and an arbour for it so prolly another 50. The Albrecht was in rough shape. It cost me 188 US for the rebuild parts. I'm not at all sure that was actually a good deal but that's what happens with used stuff on the internet.