How to remove a broken bolt extractor

[Susquatch]

just pure fascination.....

Amen. Exactly what it was.

I ended up watching a few videos. I especially liked the chronology.

I spent a decade designing automove engines. The gang I worked with would have loved to have seen these miniatures.

I have two small engines in my shop that I was given as gifts. A Honda and a Linamar. Apparently they should run as is, but they were gifts, so I simply admire them for what they are and what they mean to me.

I'll prolly watch a few more videos on his channel as time passes.

Thank you.....

 

[Susquatch]

I have to admit that I watch alot of videos at 2X speed, especially when I'm just trying to get information out of it and not for entertainment. Takes a bit of getting used to but works.

@Dabbler recommended the same thing to me for the same reason. Someday, I'll figure out how to do that. Doesn't seem to work on my phone.

 

[Janger]

Is it ok to post links to youtube videos?

Sure. No problem.

 

[Janger]

I did a similar extraction for a non mechanic friend of mine. He torqued the bolt to 125 ft/lbs plus 90*. It was supposed to be 125 in/lbs. Anyways, built it out with weld till just over flush, welded a washer to the newly built up stub, then welded a nut to the washer. Came out easy. Since the cam is cast iron, not much worry about the weld biting in to the cam.

@Darren would you stick or mig that weld bead stub? Or does it matter?

 

[Darren]

@Darren would you stick or mig that weld bead stub? Or does it matter?

If my mig is handy, i'd use that always for anything less than 1/2", or bring the part to the mig if possible. Over 1/2" it doesn't really matter, and in some cases you can make the slag from 7018 help you. A few times, in a deep bore, i've sleeved the appropriately sized bolt with copper tube, to stop it from fusing to the bore, hook it to the welder lead and jam it in the hole to fuse it to the broken bolt. Sometimes it doesn't take a perfect weld to back a bolt out. Since I was shown the technique of welding bolts out, i've done that far more often than drilling. I have tons of bolt extraction tools, easy outs, LH drills, hex extractors, spirals. My favorite method these days is to weld onto the broken bolt until i can grab it with a hex extractor an wind it out. The most common applications for this are broken exhaust manifold bolts, glow plugs, spark plugs etc. Once you drill it you're screwed if it fails. But you can almost always get it with good welding techniques.

 

[DavidR8]

If my mig is handy, i'd use that always for anything less than 1/2", or bring the part to the mig if possible. Over 1/2" it doesn't really matter, and in some cases you can make the slag from 7018 help you. A few times, in a deep bore, i've sleeved the appropriately sized bolt with copper tube, to stop it from fusing to the bore, hook it to the welder lead and jam it in the hole to fuse it to the broken bolt. Sometimes it doesn't take a perfect weld to back a bolt out. Since I was shown the technique of welding bolts out, i've done that far more often than drilling. I have tons of bolt extraction tools, easy outs, LH drills, hex extractors, spirals. My favorite method these days is to weld onto the broken bolt until i can grab it with a hex extractor an wind it out. The most common applications for this are broken exhaust manifold bolts, glow plugs, spark plugs etc. Once you drill it you're screwed if it fails. But you can almost always get it with good welding techniques.

I've had excellent luck removing broken studs by welding nuts to them but I always wondered if it was because the intense heat changed the bond between the stuck stud and the surrounding material.

 

[Darren]

I've had excellent luck removing broken studs by welding nuts to them but I always wondered if it was because the intense heat changed the bond between the stuck stud and the surrounding material.

yes, absolutley. The beauty of welding to the end of the stud to bring it out past flush, then slipping a heavy washer on, welding that, then tacking a nut to the washer, is that during the washer phase, you can pour the heat to it. the washer protects the part. You can put a ton of heat into it. The nut then only needs a few tacks to the washer.

Most of the exhaust manifold work I do is on aluminum headed GM, Ford, and Ram trucks. They all went to super weak 8mm exhaust manifold bolts/studs. The more heat you can put in the better. With aluminum heads, i've done them where they were snapped off 1/4"-3/8" below flush. You can build the broken stud out with weld and not worry about fusing to the head with weld. At times Ive had to open up the hole to 10-11 mm just below the surface to get at the stud. Still plenty of threads left if you use a stud instead of a bolt in those cases.

 

[John Conroy]

The bolt is 8mm by 23mm. The part number is 92153-1156. Since there is no notation stating otherwise I assume it's right hand thread and 1.25mm pitch. It would be a good idea to order one to be sure though.

 

[DPittman]

I spent a decade designing automove engines

I hope you can say you had nothing to do with the Chrysler 2.7 engine. I recently was involved in some major engine work on one and the designers and Chrysler corporates involved in that abominal, heinous, atrocious, nauseating design have been cursed by me more than I've ever cursed anyone or anything ever before.

 

[Tom O]

I hope you can say you had nothing to do with the Chrysler 2.7 engine. I recently was involved in some major engine work on one and the designers and Chrysler corporates involved in that abominal, heinous, atrocious, nauseating design have been cursed by me more than I've ever cursed anyone or anything ever before.

That can’t be any worse than Chevy changing the Vortex engines so many times. I had a garage change the motor in a S10 and they rebuilt 3 engines before one fit.

 

[DPittman]

That can’t be any worse than Chevy changing the Vortex engines so many times. I had a garage change the motor in a S10 and they rebuilt 3 engines before one fit.

I'm not familiar with the Vortex story. I'll go read up on that one to give me something else to curse at.

 

[DanCNC]

FYI... A quick search of the U-tubes reveals that the cam sprocket bolt is in fact a left hand thread… at approx 7:11 in the this video:

the relevant page of the manual is displayed, if you pause, in the middle of the page you can read that the bolt is left hand thread.

 

[Susquatch]

The bolt is 8mm by 23mm. The part number is 92153-1156.

Awesome John! Great idea to order one. THANK YOU!

Now I can also figure out what size to drill the hole. Prolly do that on the lathe as @Darren suggests.

I hope you can say you had nothing to do with the Chrysler 2.7 engine.

Nothing.

the relevant page of the manual is displayed, if you pause, in the middle of the page you can read that the bolt is left hand thread.

This is a moment in history that I never thought I would ever see. But here it is right here on our forum. Ya gotta watch a YouTube video to read the manual....... My life is Fg over.

My extreme depression and Vallium induced fog aside, Kudos to you for finding this! THANK YOU!

 

[Mcgyver]

Those friggin bold extractors.....reminds me Charles Revson's (found of Revlon) great line.....in the factory we make cosmestics, but what we sell is hope. Hope is the value of an extractor sitting in the drawer.

I’ve heard of alum dissolving taps stuck in aluminum does anyone know what it does to cast iron? I’m curious now.

what Don said, it dissolve ferrous stuff.....but it should get rid of the broken part!

Well, either EDM - which most people have no access to at home & would need to pay $$$

Just make one . If you can't touch it with carbide and the part is hard to get/expensive, find a local shop with a sinker....it can be the best way out of a jam

Here's mine in action

 

[Susquatch]

what Don said, it dissolve ferrous stuff.....but it should get rid of the broken part!

My bolt is steel in a cast iron cam shaft. So that won't work. Or am I thinking squirrelly again?

Just make one . If you can't touch it with carbide and the part is hard to get/expensive, find a local shop with a sinker....it can be the best way out of a jam

I'm confused. Are you suggesting a home made EDM?

The local shops are all drowning in work. It's repair crunch time just before planting. Even if not, I'd expect them to want more than a new camshaft.

I know that it's an 8mm bolt now so I'm gunna drill it out on the lathe. I'm thinking about using one of my custom axial spider fixtures to do it which would provide an opportunity to show folks how that works. I've been looking for that for quite some time now.

 

[Mcgyver]

I'm confused. Are you suggesting a home made EDM?

No, more just bugging you, saying you should have made an EDM....too bloody late now . It doesn't get used a lot but its a lifesaver. My real point though was edm is the way to go if its too hard to machine out. I don't know what the replacement part cost is, but if astronomical, I'd phone finding out the price and timing before entirely dismissing EDM. I did qualify that, saying if part is expensive....would make no sense to pay more for EDM than you could buy one for.

So that won't work. Or am I thinking squirrelly again?

you are thinking straight, it wont work, at least if you still want a cam as well.

How are you going to drill it out if what is jammed is too hard to machine?

 

[Susquatch]

My real point though was edm is the way to go if its too hard to machine out. I don't know what the replacement part cost is, but if astronomical, I'd phone finding out the price and timing before entirely dismissing EDM.

I see. I did make a few calls when it first happened. Would have saved me the embarrassment of having to admit on here that I broke an extractor, let alone that I assumed that it was a RH thread when it was actually LH. A lot of personal dumbness exposure could have been avoided if I could have found someone with EDM. Oh well, it's out there now! LOL!

How are you going to drill it out if what is jammed is too hard to machine?

You must have missed the post where I used a diamond burr to get the broken extractor out. It's just the bolt stud that's left in there now. It may or may not be hardened, but I know it's drillable cuz I drilled it to take the extractor. It was the broken extractor that I couldn't machine even with carbide. But a few cheap diamond burrs and a lot of patience later and it was out..... I think. If not, there can't be much more left in there and I have a whole bag of cheap Amazon diamond burrs.

 

[Mcgyver]

ah, ok, you're away to the races then

 

[DPittman]

I hope you can say you had nothing to do with the Chrysler 2.7 engine.

Nothing

Good cuz I'd feel a bit bad if I had to name one of my 2.7L voodoo dolls Susqautch. I'd much rather keep on liking you.

So your grandson should be getting an awesome lesson in repair that he wouldn't be able to get in school. What was the cause of the engine breakdown to begin with?

 

[Bandit]

Don"t get me wrong, I do watch SOME you tube. Like some of them too. A recommended one is good.
DPittman, 2.7 maybe related to the 3.6. Take off 1/2 the intake manifold to change 3 spark plugs, the oil pressure sender is under the lower 1/2 of the intake manifold, and it screwed into the oil cooler, prone to leaking, attached to a plastic base, attached in the valley, o-rings that may/can/do leak. Oh, the base may fail also. Oil filter goes into it, DO NOT over tighten cap.
Roller rockers, some of which have bad bearings, destroy rocker, takes out the cam, etc. The oil pump has an electric soliniod on it to give 2? different pressures, cam shaft advance/retard. Failure prone it seems.
Some years bad heads, here's a "good" one, each head has 2 oil gallery's running end to end. A threaded plug just under the cam spocket, seems there were more than 1 Monday and Friday in each week. Not tightened and or no sealant on plugs, all 4 of mine were loose.
The start of it, was a low oil pressure code. Oh, the worm holes. There's maybe a few million of these in vans, cars, and pickups. I hear some terrible clattering from some and think it's to late for them.
Yes, mine is running fine again, did not find any majors wrong with it. Would cross my fingers, but have to wear mitts then.
Think about making an EDM some times, there was an article in Home Shop Machinist or its sister mag some years ago. But don't need it till you need it.