Hi Wayne here from north of Cochrane

[Wayne]

Very interesting site, thanks and hello to all. I am just thinking of purchasing a small lathe and would like some informed opinions on which lathe I should consider. I am looking at two different lathes from Busy Bee.
The first is a CX707 which is a 220 volt 2hp model. The second is a CX701 which is a 110 volt 1.5 hp model. The CX707 weighs about 400kg which I'm not sure how to move it to set it up. [ But it has more options like quick change gears and stand etc]. The CX701 weighs about 250 kg which is at least easier to move.
I have no experience with lathes and am looking for a new hobby, The CX707 might be overkill for me but I don't want to need to by another lathe should I grow out of the first one.
Does anyone have ideas or opinions that I can mull over and perhaps learn from? Thanks,
Wayne

 

[Tom Kitta]

The question of which one to buy does come up all the time.

Both lathes you mention are very nice. When picking new machine & not being sure what exact projects you will do consider:

a) budget - lathe price + tooling - what can you afford
b) whatever you have space for a machine, power constraints etc. Don't worry about 250 vs. 400 - people move in things into their garage that are > 1000kg

Notice I didn't mention an "overkill". I guess $25000 beginner lathe would be an overkill for a beginner but both of your choices seem fine - again give strong though to (a).

You are 100% correct when you say "don't want to need to by another lathe should I grow out of the first one" - I learned not to be cheap.

I own ct087 lathe which is cheaper than both of your choices. Main (big) problem is no quick change gear box - but I did pay only $2400 for mine. I did find limits to my lathe but none are critical & it is a pleasure to use. Good thing I didn't go for a toy like a mini-lathe...

 

[Wayne]

The question of which one to buy does come up all the time.

Both lathes you mention are very nice. When picking new machine & not being sure what exact projects you will do consider:

a) budget - lathe price + tooling - what can you afford
b) whatever you have space for a machine, power constraints etc. Don't worry about 250 vs. 400 - people move in things into their garage that are > 1000kg

Notice I didn't mention an "overkill". I guess $25000 beginner lathe would be an overkill for a beginner but both of your choices seem fine - again give strong though to (a).

You are 100% correct when you say "don't want to need to by another lathe should I grow out of the first one" - I learned not to be cheap.

I own ct087 lathe which is cheaper than both of your choices. Main (big) problem is no quick change gear box - but I did pay only $2400 for mine. I did find limits to my lathe but none are critical & it is a pleasure to use. Good thing I didn't go for a toy like a mini-lathe...

Hi Tom,
Thanks for your response! I would like a even larger lathe to start but a. I can't afford one and b. I don't have the room to put it. Are the two I've asked about good quality lathes? Are the tolerances good? I'll bite...how the heck does one move a 800lb lathe into a garage?
I know that at some point that I would like to do some knurling and I think the larger lathe would be better for that?

Wayne

 

[Tom Kitta]

Well, you are getting a Chinese lathe so don't expect US quality - but you are not exactly paying US prices either. Quality to price seems acceptable for manual lathe for most people on the forums.

You can also check out competition from say Grizzly - some of it can be had at competing prices (out of all places on amazon.ca).

If you were in Ontario you might also have taken a look at used non-Chinese lathes...

To move heavy stuff into the garage I used rollers - simple pieces of pipe under the machine - the machine rolls on these pieces of pipe and you simply add them to the front as the back ones show up. I then used a winch on the garage roof to lift the lathe onto the stand. The rollers of course work if there is concrete as the surface under them.

 

[Wayne]

I understand the difference but I can't afford to buy American, even more now with out dollar and shipping costs. I also wouldn't want to pay the shipping from Ontario either. There will be machinery and lathes coming up for sale soon in Calgary I'm sure, but it will all be large oil field stuff. The CX 707 is 66inches wide and I have room for 67 inches where I need to put the lathe.
The rollers are a great idea, but the winch to the ceiling would be a problem as it has been fully dry walled in and I have no idea what else may be run up there or where. Over eight hundred pounds on a 2X4 would likely get exciting as well. The 220 runs across there somewhere for the dryer which is in the next room. It is that plug that I would have to duplex to run the lathe. I guess I could see how much a hydraulic engine lift would cost but I think one that is large enough would likely have the front legs sticking out too far [for balance].
I sure wish I knew if these are good dependable lathes though, do you know anything about Busy Bee? Are they a reputable dealer who honor warranty etc?

 

[Tom Kitta]

Well, Busy Bee tools is the poor brother of Grizzly Industrial.... both as companies and in real life (owners are brothers).

Through BB has all your invoices on file (you can see them on their PC screen & they ask for your phone #) they demand original invoice for any warranty work + have rather strict short term return policy. They also don't have extensive replacement part catalogue with parts stocked like Grizzly website - see Grizzly website under parts - they have every little screw for each on of their machines available for purchase!

I only had warranty issues with amazon.ca and with Grizzly - service was outstanding with no questions asked policy. A motor for table saw was sent from amazon.ca (fulfilled by Amazon) with Grizzly as brand. The UPS guy dropped the motor and bent the cover. So I complained and sure enough replacement was in the mail with 2nd day air. This time Canada Post dropped it....

Amazon told me I can again return it or accept 20% off. I accepted 20% off and called Grizzly which promptly sent for free under warranty a new cover. Both Amazon.ca and Grizzly worked hard to keep me happy - no sweet words for UPS and Canada Post.

As for BB warranty service I have not yet had to use it. But given the wait times to get some tools I would not hold my breath for it.

My lathe is holding out well, others have used same model for a long time & I am not running a production shop.

See whatever Grizzly sells your model of the lathe - don't have to buy from them - but if they do you are covered for some unlikely event into the future.

 

[Wayne]

Wow! VERY informative. Thank You!
I will Google Grizzley and see what I can find. I used to buy stuff on e-bay and had good luck there but with the Canadian dollar it just isn't worth it. Where is Grizzley located? If not I will have a heart to heart with the Busy Bee guys and make sure we are all on the same warranty page before I buy anything. I have been working today to clear a spot for the lathe [Whatever it turns out to be]. The 707 has quick change gears and a stand which pretty much makes up the difference in the price from the 701, then there is several other upgrades that would really be free. Do you know if anyone on this feed has had a CX lathe from them?

Wayne

 

[Tom Kitta]

Your welcome.

Not sure whatever someone has a CX lathe on this forum from them - you can come to the coffee meetup and ask. Through I would be surprised if you didn't find anyone on this forum that has CX.

Note that most of BB machines are just re-badged standard models of Grizzly - which simply sources "generic" stuff and puts their name on it... or names of their cheap brands such as Steelex or Woodstock. Or South Bend - they own the name.

Grizzly last time I checked was somewhere in Washington state - they offer some deal on shipping to Canada...

 

[Wayne]

I found their website, they have some very nice looking stuff, but then it all looks nice in the pictures. I will try to make one of the coffee meetings but I am over sixty kilometers to the north west city limits. I will try to do some more checking and see what happens. I don't think they have a CX707 in stock at Busy Bee which makes me wonder if they just order machines as they sell them. If that's the case I may be able to just order one from china and save some money and get it delivered. lol That is interesting...I thought South Bend was a high quality lathe company. I have much to learn. Heavy Sigh.

 

[Tom Kitta]

South Bend was a very high quality company - *was* - Grizzly is trying to resurrect the name. Their prices for SB are high but I have no clue as to the quality & where they are made.

You can check out aliexpress.com for buying directly from China. Through shipping might be a killer. There are no returns (see shipping) but if you get a model that say Grizzly has for less it might be a good deal.

You can also source a lot of other things directly from China - quality is a mystery meat - sometimes you get excellent stuff, sometimes not.

 

[Wayne]

I have purchased several items from China although mostly LED lighting etc but other than UPS problems it has all been good. Alibaba is another good sales group. Shipping is better if you buy a container load but I likely wouldn't wear out that many lathes. I wonder if it might be possible to piggy back with someone else's order and both save some money. Hmmmm

 

[Tom Kitta]

People that work in the industry are known to have attached themselves to the order of their employer.

 

[PeterT]

Hi Wayne, welcome. I found some links for you pasted below. Hopefully will help. I'd encourage you to Google as much as you can for reviews. Maybe 'Busy Bee' will yield more hits on other hobby machinist forums. I think you are going about it the right way & most have us have wrestled with the same decisions. IMO, getting a machine landed, maneuvered into position & then acquiring tooling ... the lathe price difference starts to fade in the rear view mirror by comparison. I'm not saying throw money away, but if you are on the teeter-totter of features & size, I'd say get what you want & be done with it.
- re knurling, I am going to try & convince you to get a scissor style knurler vs. the straight-in plunge style. Your machine will thank you, much less stress on the cross slide & work itself
- re power, check into separate panel box. I'm not sure they should be sharing the same circuit as your laundry but I'm no electrician (not sure if that's what you were suggesting but FWIW)
- if you can, try not to restrict the footprint with side-walls. Getting it in & out & just around to work on it ideally has some extra space.
- They moved my 10x40 in with an engine picker thingy, but they have kind of a largish footprint. Pay attention to machine pickup/strapping points, they typically have headstock heavy CofG
- try & download the manual(s) & check out what they use for tooling. It could be same between 2 you're considering. But what I mean is D-pin style on the headstock vs. threaded. On a recent machine like that, especially of Asian origin its pretty smooth sailing in terms of available back plate adapters & MT# on the tail stock, but something to keep in mind. The chuck(s) they package may not be the ones you live with forever.
- dimension wise, get a handle on swing & length accommodation. Compare this to your project expectations (bigger is always better in the end but usually costs $). They will quote swing over bed, that's one parameter. But also swing over the cross slide. Some guys have unexpected challenges with #2 because certain lathes stack the compound assembly a bit high. This can limit work & even constrain you if you want to upgrade tool post. Re length, some specs are getting cute (misleading) & not including chuck or tailstock vs. length of bed. Its best if you can see the machine in real life.
- re the stand & backsplash, depending on the quality might be good or bad. Check it out & ask questions & see how it mounts so you are prepared on moving day. The stand offered for my King at the time was tuna can crap so I paid a buddy to weld me a very simple one of square tubing which was more rigid. I wish I was smarter & integrated some casters or something. I wish I had a backsplash & regret cheaping out there. There is considerable futzing to replicate one I'm finding, boxing out for motor cooling, anchor points...
- I think with BB like most of these machines you have to treat them a bit like a kit that you might be tinkering with. They have their pros & cons, but at least lots of ineternet experience out there. I'd be lost trying to remedy an old machine, my hat is off to guys who do that kind of work. I'd feel more confident about something local or at least readily fixable when it comes to parts. Seems like the electrics is more the issue over mechanical. Good luck!

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/showthread.php?t=24923&highlight=busy

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/showthread.php?t=24848&highlight=busy

http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,5388.msg103414.html#msg103414

 

[John Conroy]

I personally would not buy a large machine like a lathe from busy bee. Their reputation for warranty policies is abysmal. Check out this post from another forum.

http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/busy-bee-tools-canada.31507/

 

[PeterT]

Wow, that link does not sound good for BB. (Good web link btw).
I forgot to mention, here is a King option KMS Calgary. I'm not sure about warranty, review status etc. nor have I looked at it, just mentioning. Didn't this model come up in discussion & someone had experience?
https://www.kmstools.com/king-industrial-12-x-36-metal-lathe-with-stand-12933

 

[John Conroy]

If I was looking for a small lathe in Calgary I would certainly look at this Logan.

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-power-tool/calgary/logan-lathe/1131690432?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

 

[Jwest7788]

Hey Wayne,

Welcome to the forum,

I'm a little late to the party, but much of what I wanted to say is above already anyways.
If you can find time, the next meetup is a week tomorrow, but is south central(ish) Calgary. https://goo.gl/77eWt0


If I could go back, the only change I would have made with my purchasing decision would a lathe with a quick change gear box for threading. After manually changing gears a dozen times, you'll wish you had one too. Just food for thought.

JW

 

[Wayne]

Tom and all
Thanks guys for your help and information. Although I am now more confused as what to do. lol. This seems more than just a Ford vs Chevy thing. [Both are good but people have strong preferences].

The website with the across Canada views on Busy Bee is very informative and causes me some concern, the problem is that I can't find another company in the Calgary area that sell small affordable lathes
Peter,
I think you are right on about the knurling tool and will likely try the scissor style as excessive pressure on a small lathe is a serious concern. It seems that the Busy Bee lathes work well for people for know what they are doing in regards to set up and repair of lathes in general and who have lots of experience. I have none of that. I also need to not spend a lot of money as I don't have any. lol. There is going to be a strong trade off between cost and brand.

As long as the dryer wasn't running at the same time as the lathe it should be fine as long as the lathe amp draw does not exceed the wire draw rating and breaker. None of the lathes mention how many amps they draw so it is likely not an issue.

Hi John,
That Logan looks like a great lathe but it is very old and may have issues that I couldn't identify or fix once found. That saddle has made a lot of passes in it's time and may have more wear on the bed and ways which would need resurfacing work which would cost more than the lathe. I have been told this at some point and really know nothing about it but it makes sense that wear would be a concern.

I really want to thank you guys for the responses and links this has quickly been very informative, but looks like the fun part of using and learning about a lathe is going to be offset by buying one. This stuff seems to be a lot like brain surgery...there is nothing to it...if you know what your doing.

Please keep sending any suggestions and info!

I will try to get to the coffee meeting, but can't promise as I live over a hundred kilometers from the meeting place but will get to one at some point. You guys have a great forum here so thank you again!

Wayne

 

[Wayne]

Hi All; I found this about King Canada lathes and they have a store in Calgary.

King 7x12 Lathe

• It comes with a 4" chuck instead of the usual 3" chuck (which means you should be able to use the full spindle bore without having to buy another chuck)
• It comes with ball oilers on the carriage, tailstock and compound
• The base of the tailstock is actually correctly machined and finished and can be easily adjusted for centre or turning tapers (unlike the usual 7x12s which are normally covered in paint there where they shouldn't be)
• It has way wipers on the carriage
• The change gear cover, and electronics enclosure are both made of metal rather than the usual crappy plastic
• The paint job looked really nice
• The fit and finish of the lathe overall was miles above what I've seen on other mini lathes
• They specifically say that the bedways on the lathe are hardened... The ones on my crappy 7x12 certainly aren't! And I've never seen another mini-lathe that said they were except the MicroMark...
• It actually has a real E-stop switch, rather than the crappy hinged plastic thing they normally have. This is more important than it may seem because my crappy safety switch has actually failed to function a few times. When you need that switch to work, you *really* need it to work...

From what I've seen the quality of the basic features seems to be really good. It actually has some features that the LittleMachineShop machines don't come with, which quite surprised me... I was expecting another crappy mini-lathe offering and that was not what I saw!

It only has the 350 watt brushed motor instead of the nice 500W brushless that the LMS and MicroMark machines come with, but I have the same motor on my lathe and haven't found it to really be an issue.

This guy says ... I know the guys at the local dealership pretty well and they're really good on warranty and parts. King also have mobile service guys in Canada that will come fix the lathe if anything goes wrong. Not sure I'd get that service from anyone else.

Anyone have any first hand knowledge on King Canada machines?

Wayne

 

[John Conroy]

I have had one experience with warranty at KMS on a King Canada bench mounted belt sander. It came with a one year warranty and after 13 months the motor went up in smoke. I was prepared to go to battle with KMS and King Canada but when I took the machine into the KMS store the counter guy took one look at it, then went to the shelf and got me a new one. He said King Canada has great warranty and would not question his decision to replace the machine. KMS and King Canada will get more or my business.

This is the sander I bought.

https://www.kmstools.com/king-canada-bench-top-belt-disc-sander-390

After taking to bottom cover off it quite evident it was not made for sanding metal because there if nothing to keep the metal debris out of the motor, in fact the fan on the motor will actually draw the dust in. I'm sure that's what caused the failure of my first one. So I don't recommend this sander for metal but I'm happy with the warranty service I got. I'm still working on a way to protect the motor on the new one from another failure due to ingested metal dust.