Hello from Surrey

[DouglasFab]

Speaking from my experience of owning three lathes; a South Bend 10K (10" x 30" between centres) a Clausing 100 (12"x24" between centres) and my current lathe, a Busy Bee 1237G (12" x 37" between centres) there is simply no substitute for bigger. Bigger swing and longer between centres capacity also means bigger castings which translates into more rigidity.
The difference in smoothness and rigidity between my 400lb South Bend (which was a very nice machine) and my 800lb Busy Bee is night and day.

The rigidity and smoothness of heavier machines is one of the things that pushes me to go with a 12x36 and tempts me to go even bigger, cost and space brings me back to earth though lol.

I’m curious what pushed you to buy new lathes each time? Knowing the problems that made a machine unworkable for you could help me.

 

[Bandit]

It is interesting to hear why a lathe was brought/not bought. However a few things that may? help. "I" think a good starting point could be ,how much room do I have?/ where am I putting it? (Do I need a 50 ton crane?) Do I have the right/enough power? What's the biggest/longest thing/project I have to do/want to do/might do in the near? future. Can it do imperial/standard, metric threads? Does it use a change gear to do both types of threads? Is there a change gear? Does it have a quick change gear box for threading and power feeds? in hand with a power cross feed for the carriage?
A lot? of us have seen a big lathe sitting out side some where. And it starts out--"- whooo, if only I could get that", or the"sure, you can have it, just take it away. Hey, I will even give you some of these here tool bits."
A new lathe, likely get parts for, might be a slow boat, but. Old/older lathe, maybe/ likely no parts, may have to repair/make parts. A smaller lathe "may" cost less to repair after a crash.
You may settle for less if you find the dream lathe you always wanted. ( or you may "need" more then one).
Note, others will add to this, or go for a different order.
I have left cost out of it, but ya know!
Often the important thing is other people's operating/owning experience of what you are looking at, and there is that on this forum, in hand with how did/do you do that?
Good luck in your hunt. And nearly forgot, welcome !

 

[6.5 Fan]

Welcome from SK. My first new lathe was a 13x36 Taiwan made machine, very good machine imo. Good luck in your search for a lathe.

 

[Proxule]

so he's RICH!

PM-1440GT 14″x40″ Ultra Precision Lathe – Precision Matthews Machinery Co.

www.precisionmatthews.com

 

[DouglasFab]

It is interesting to hear why a lathe was brought/not bought. However a few things that may? help. "I" think a good starting point could be ,how much room do I have?/ where am I putting it? (Do I need a 50 ton crane?) Do I have the right/enough power? What's the biggest/longest thing/project I have to do/want to do/might do in the near? future. Can it do imperial/standard, metric threads? Does it use a change gear to do both types of threads? Is there a change gear? Does it have a quick change gear box for threading and power feeds? in hand with a power cross feed for the carriage?
A lot? of us have seen a big lathe sitting out side some where. And it starts out--"- whooo, if only I could get that", or the"sure, you can have it, just take it away. Hey, I will even give you some of these here tool bits."
A new lathe, likely get parts for, might be a slow boat, but. Old/older lathe, maybe/ likely no parts, may have to repair/make parts. A smaller lathe "may" cost less to repair after a crash.
You may settle for less if you find the dream lathe you always wanted. ( or you may "need" more then one).
Note, others will add to this, or go for a different order.
I have left cost out of it, but ya know!
Often the important thing is other people's operating/owning experience of what you are looking at, and there is that on this forum, in hand with how did/do you do that?
Good luck in your hunt. And nearly forgot, welcome !

Lots of good questions. I’m fortunate enough to be able to put this into my jobs shop so I’m fairly unrestrained, but I would like to move it into a garage shop when I get a house hopefully later this year. So for now room isn’t much of an issue, I have access to 20th cranes/5ton forklifts and a driver I can send out for it with a flatbed/car trailer or even 53’ tractor trailer, up to 600v 3phase power too. I’d like to be able to cut both thread types and more power feeds would be great but i think I can add them later on some axis at least. Probably keeping the budget under the 10k mark, hopefully that with some accessories and eventually a DRO

 

[DouglasFab]

PM-1440GT 14″x40″ Ultra Precision Lathe – Precision Matthews Machinery Co.

www.precisionmatthews.com

Lol I wish, I do have a pretty good budget for a hobby sized machine but I think that’s getting a bit high for me. I’m interested in everyone’s opinion on Precision Mathew’s vs Craftex vs King vs Grizzly. They all appear to use the same casting and mostly just rebrand it, I’m sure they do a bit more than that though. I assume Precision Mathew’s does more clean up and alignment work but is there more that couldn’t be done by me down the line? Are there any quality differences I might not have noticed or thought about?

 

[Proxule]

Lol I wish, I do have a pretty good budget for a hobby sized machine but I think that’s getting a bit high for me. I’m interested in everyone’s opinion on Precision Mathew’s vs Craftex vs King vs Grizzly. They all appear to use the same casting and mostly just rebrand it, I’m sure they do a bit more than that though. I assume Precision Mathew’s does more clean up and alignment work but is there more that couldn’t be done by me down the line? Are there any quality differences I might not have noticed or thought about?

My king 1236 is okay, sure isn't a PM. For hobby use, it's perfect for me.
Paint chipping everywhere and fit and finish is questionable.
Tenth runout on the spindle bore, more then acceptable for me.
I bounced my questions off the guys in this forum prior to buying. I spent a considerable amount of time pulling casting sand out of the apron and headstock. Adjusting oil ports, adj the half nuts and bolts and bla bla bla. More or less I stripped the whole lathe. So yes - you can do the adjustments/ fit and finish down the line.

After speaking with other members about the PM machine. And having the luxury of of using a PM mill at a forum members shop. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a PM. If you have the funds.

Others will chime in soon enough. King and Grizzly are more or less the same. Even share the same manual. Or at least parts !
Grizzly would be G4003 model.
For you it would be 2 hops and a skip to the Washington warehouse to buy one !

Gluck - keep us posted.

 

[historicalarms]

Welcome from the farm yard in central Ab...that alone should send alarm bells to you...farmers are notorious for "cheaping out" on essential stuff (and , of course, cutting corners on repair projects).
But, anyhow here is my 2 cents worth on your dilemma... When i bought my first lathe, I followed my inbred farmers instinct and bought a Lathe-mill combo...it took me about 2 hours after unpacking & set up to realize I had made a big mistake, two days later I upgraded to a 13-36 and my hobby interests have caused me to use every inch of usable space in swing & bed on that machine many times over .
My advise to you is that, before deciding or even looking at a machine with intent to purchase ...is to first, go over every hobby interest that you foresee ever being part of your enjoyment even if it takes a week but daydream about everything that interests you until you decide what size of lathe to purchase.
in my case, small gun pins and screws were the first thing i wanted to build but I knew that gun barrels and cannons were a definite vision that would need to be scratched and i have .done that in spades

 

[DavidR8]

The rigidity and smoothness of heavier machines is one of the things that pushes me to go with a 12x36 and tempts me to go even bigger, cost and space brings me back to earth though lol.

I’m curious what pushed you to buy new lathes each time? Knowing the problems that made a machine unworkable for you could help me.

One thing to consider is that as machines get bigger so does all of the tooling. And tooling costs seems to increase exponentially.

I may be an edge case: My South Bend had a horizontal belt drive so it was very deep, almost 40" from the front of the apron to the rear of the drive. I simply did not have the room for it. The Clausing was the right footprint at 24" deep but it didn't have a quick change gear box. If it had that I might still have it. The Busy Bee fell into my lap because it was broken and the owner just wanted rid of it to make way for its replacement.

 

[Susquatch]

I'm fairly certain

I’m interested in everyone’s opinion on Precision Mathew’s vs Craftex vs King vs Grizzly.

I'm fairly certain some will have opinions on that. But I'm not so fussed about it. The lathes from any of these manufacturers will be better than you can take advantage of and further there are always ways that you can improve the lathe and your work when needed. None of them are equal to the best machines out there but none of them cost anywhere near that much either.

Just look at your budget, consider what else you will need in terms of tooling, look at availability of the models that feature the abilities that meet your anticipated needs, and don't worry too much about the differences between manufacturers.

It is true that Grizzly has better documentation, but to a significant extent most of their documentation applies to the other guys stuff too.

A few things to know that might not be obvious:

A gap bed is a waste of money. Even though mine has a gap bed, I would NEVER remove it. Too hard to get it lined back up.

An enclosed gear box with oil is significantly quieter than a plain gearbox.

The size of the spindle bore matters if you want to turn large bar stock.

A power carriage is pretty much standard. A power cross slide is a significant advantage.

The number of pitches and thread sizes available varies significantly from one machine to the next. But you can cut custom gears for those Lathes with change gears.

Check out the lowest and highest speeds - especially the lowest. Lower speeds are an advantage for many operations.

Get a 220 motor if you can. 3phase 220 would be even better.

Does it come with 3 jaw, 4 jaw, and face plate? Centers, drill chuck? T-Slots on Cross-slide?

The OEM cabinets are much better than most folks think they are. Usually made of heavy plate steel with adjustable feet.

Check out the metric/Imperial capabilities. Some lathes are built to give approximate thread pitches. I suppose that's ok, but I want precise pitches for my money. Just be aware of the difference ahead of time.

A foot brake is worth more than you think.

A D1-6 spindle is better than D1-5 is better than D1-3 is better than threaded.

What quality of chucks comes with the machine?

How much optional equipment comes standard and what quality is it? Especially drill chucks, live centers, follow rests, stead rest, tool holder.

That's not an all inclusive list of things to consider, it's just what all popped into my head if I were comparing new machines for a possible purchase.

 

[PaulL]

The number of pitches and thread sizes available varies significantly from one machine to the next. But you can cut custom gears for those Lathes with change gears.

I'll add that all the machines you're looking at will require change gears, and that metric threading is a PITA.
I replaced my gears with a stepper motor and some electronics and I'm never going back. You just can't make me.

 

[whydontu]

Jeez, your budget and environment gets you into the range of some nice machinery.

Modern Tool has reasonable pricing, customer service is sketchy but products are solid.

Lenmark are good to deal with, doesn’t look like they have much in inventory right now.

Coast Machinery has some nice stuff, including a 20x35 Monarch that makes me drool, and a Graziano SAG 180.

 

[Proxule]

I'll add that all the machines you're looking at will require change gears, and that metric threading is a PITA.
I replaced my gears with a stepper motor and some electronics and I'm never going back. You just can't make me.

The norton gearbox on the 1236 king does not require any changes until you wish to do metric threading.
Big bonus for that particular lathe.

 

[DouglasFab]

A lot of good advice and things to consider here, thanks again to everyone.

Proxule’s comment on the quality of Precision Mathew’s has got me more willing to accept the higher prices. Their PM 1340 GMT ultra high precision looks so nice, then I see an 11k USD price tag once I add a stand and some tooling even before shipping. Way overkill I’m sure, I can get away with it but it sure feels wrong lol. The PM 1440E-LB is still a lot but is a few grand cheaper and probably still more accurate than I know what to do with.

Thanks for explaining what made you move up David_R8, I didn’t think about the rising cost of tooling.

I plan to head out to Lenmark on Tuesday if I can get out of work on time.

I’ve dealt with Modern Tool before through work and hate their service so much I refuse to deal with them. They will outright lie to you about timelines and availability and choose slow options when you’ve asked for expediting. They sat on their hands for literally weeks before placing an order for me, for no reason. They dodged my calls and emails and lied to me about who was working all to avoid telling me when a part I needed would actually arrive. I tracked down where they placed the order and managed to get the same part for the same price in three days, they told me 3 weeks and it was nearly 6 by the time they would answer me. From talking to others who have dealt with, and worked for them, it’s been an issue for a very long time and they won’t change.

The monarch that coast has is sure cool, but I would eventually like it in a garage and that’s getting quite big lol.

I don’t mind if it’s a hassle to swap between metic and imperial threads as I don’t see it happening often enough to really bother me, as long as I can do it I’m happy. Upgrading to a stepper motor in the future sure looks nice though.

I really appreciate the list susquatch, I’m ignorant to things like different spindle tapers like you mentioned. The cabinet comment made me realize one of the PM machines I looked at didn’t come with one, I could build a very heavy one cheap at work but it still might not be as good for reasons I’m just not aware of. I’ve seen a few threads about fixing poor quality chucks from King, I’m assuming the PM ones will be better but might still benefit from balancing more. PM also specifies their lead screws are proper imperial and not just metrics they convert leading to more accuracy, with a good DRO I’d imagine that would only matter for cutting threads though. A foot brake would be nice and it’s something I’ve noticed hasn’t been on anything I’ve looked at, although I could just add one with a safety interlock and homemade pedal.

 

[Proxule]

threads about fixing poor quality chucks from King,

Unbalanced 4 jaw on my 12x36

Hey fellas, I recently acquired my new 12x36 king Canada lathe, I furnished up some leveling feet using some hockey pucks, carriage bolts and some flat disks to sit atop the hockey pucks to make a vibration dampening feet. * thanks Everett for the stock ! I am in a pickle regarding my 3 jaw...

canadianhobbymetalworkers.com

 

[DouglasFab]

Unbalanced 4 jaw on my 12x36

Hey fellas, I recently acquired my new 12x36 king Canada lathe, I furnished up some leveling feet using some hockey pucks, carriage bolts and some flat disks to sit atop the hockey pucks to make a vibration dampening feet. * thanks Everett for the stock ! I am in a pickle regarding my 3 jaw...

canadianhobbymetalworkers.com

Yup that’s the thread I was reading, didn’t realize it was yours! It was a good read for someone like me.

 

[Proxule]

Yup that’s the thread I was reading, didn’t realize it was yours! It was a good read for someone like me.

No worries.
I must confess, this forum and its members within are a wealth of knowledge and help!

 

[Alawishes]

Hello all, from Surrey.

I'm a welder/fabricator from the lower mainland doing mostly structural steel looking to get into machining. Been lurking on the site for a while, trying to decide which lathe to buy. I figured it's time to sign up since I always end up back here anytime I browse equipment. The forum seems knowledgeable and friendly so I look forward to picking your brains and hopefully sharing some projects in the future!

Years ago I bought a Southbend 10k at an auction -- I'm sure it was out of a school, as it was metric and 3phase. It was in pristine shape, possibly because one couldn't single point imperial threads so I'm guessing it wasn't used a lot. Since then I got a great deal on a Summit 19/23x80 and it was amazing to compare the two lathes (not counting the size difference). Southbend has spindle bushings and about 3/4" bore, 6 speed change belt drive, manual lube, screw on chuck (don't run it in reverse), 1/2 hp. Summit has spindle taper roller bearings and 4-1/8" bore, 12 speed gearbox, auto lube on head and carriage, cam lock on chuck, 7.5hp, coolant pump and inch/metric threading. Once I got using the Summit I realized how much better it was than the SB so I asked on another forum which manufacturer made a 10" lathe with the same bells/whistles as the Summit, and pretty much everyone said buy a Monarch 10ee (12.5x20). Which I did. Normally very expensive (a new one now is over US $100k) but I felt very confident buying it on ebay, as the seller was on that same forum and I knew he already owned 5 of these and just bought a 6th, and needed the space. I was surprised it sold for only US $3500 plus CDN $700 shipping to me from New York, and of course brokerage and GST. It's an incredible machine, very precise and I am rewarded every time I use it. The only tiny negative is the bed is a little short. Interesting to note is the Summit and Monarch are both about 3500 lbs. -- no substitute for mass. My thoughts on a lathe for you are: no screw-on chuck, spindle bearings, not bushings, maybe something around 12x36, imperial/metric threading would be nice, as would geared spindle change speeds. Accessories make a big difference too. Steady rest, follower rest reasonably important; taper turning attachment really nice on the odd occasion. DRO very handy too. I converted all 3 lathes to the Multifix 40 position toolpost/holders. Available at reasonable prices from China now, and the sets I got for the SB and Monarch were of good quality. Ok, rambling over. Good luck! al.

 

[Marc Moreau]

Welcome from Gatineau Quebec