Fusion 360 getting started session December 2023

[Janger]

Hi - back to this thread on Fusion 360 and getting started. There are a lot of videos on Fusion but I think what is missing is how Fusion puts all the different pieces together so it works - and how do you generally use Fusion? It is not the same as drafting or perhaps prior CAD packages we have trained on. I think with some explanation about this the rest of the tutorials etc available would be easier to follow.

I have put together a bunch of slides to show some concepts and how to get started and work effectively. This is primarily aimed at the Fusion new user. They are not perfect but I think it will suffice - don't let perfect get in the way of getting to good. So I propose to help people by running a 1 - 2 hour tutorial online. I'll show some slides and demo some things in Fusion - then it's your turn to try it. So to do this effectively we need a solution to present on my machine and another solution to view on your machine. With audio required and video nice to have. If I was at work we'd just do it on MS Teams and it would be trivial. Also it would be good if other people could also share their screen and even better if we could share a screen and allow someone else to control it. It needs to be free and simple.

Options:
1. MS Teams - we would need an organization to host it. I don't think my employer would appreciate or allow this. Does someone have MS Teams at work and could host it? This would work pretty well, install is pretty easy, and it works well across multiple people, locations, on multiple machines and OS's. My first choice.
2. We tried discord once and while that worked you have to do setup and client setup stuff.
3. There is https://obsproject.com/kb/quick-start-guide open broad cast project which I think @phaxtris suggested once. setup & install complexity.
4. Could use zoom. It's free for 45 min sessions. It has some bad press about security issues.
5. Could use google meetups which seems to be good. This would be my second choice.
6. Something else?

When:
1. Time. I suggest evening 6:30PM MT. So that is 5:30 PT and 8:30 Central, 9:30PM East coast?
2. Date? Saturday Dec 23 rd at 6:30PM MT.? Wednesday Dec 27 at 6:30PM MT.? Maybe Sunday Dec 31 2PM MT?

Pre reqs.
1. Fusion 360 installed on your computer and it works.
2. Meeting Client installed on your computer and tested it works.
3. Internet speeds sufficient to attend. I think for some people if they want to attend they will have to find faster internet.

@TorontoBuilder John I think you thought you could be the TA for the session? During the breakouts you and I could help people who are stuck.

Thoughts? Maybe I should poll on the dates. See above.

 

[PeterT]

I'm not an F360 user but would make an effort to watch a session purely out of interest.

I have no issues with Zoom, use it all the time, but can't speak to security/problems over other apps. I don't think MS Teams or Zoom (or any similar?) require any app installation simply to join a meeting, but possibly does require app installation in order to utilize certain features? Maybe screen sharing or whatever?

 

[Susquatch]

I would love to do this John. But the December dates all suck. I will need to see what I can do with my internet connect to participate. Prolly the best would be to go to somebody else's house. Zoom and Teams are both full-on crap on my rural connection. Maybe I could watch on my phone and work in parallel on my PC?

 

[Tom O]

My Son is taking me to the Casino for supper and apparently $100 Gift for my 70th birthday on the 23 of Dec.

 

[Janger]

I would love to do this John. But the December dates all suck. I will need to see what I can do with my internet connect to participate. Prolly the best would be to go to somebody else's house. Zoom and Teams are both full-on crap on my rural connection. Maybe I could watch on my phone and work in parallel on my PC?

Maybe January would work better for people. I particularly wanted you @Susquatch to be able to attend.

@Susquatch can you make a wifi or corded hot spot out of your phone and connect your computer to it? And is it effective and faster? If you wanted to try and test it with me we could do that. On Google meetups. That would help me too with verifying this approach would work.

 

[Tecnico]

If I may offer my thoughts.

1) Thanks for stepping up and taking it on, it’s a big job.

2) I’m a past Autodesk Inventor user, unless I’m wrong Fusion is a cloud version of that??

3) I have significant experience with several 3D solid modellers, is Fusion just another dialect of the work flow or a different language so to speak?

4) I suspect that January or later would fit better than in the middle of celebrating Christmas (or your particular version etc,)

5) Whatever the videoconferencing is, for me it has to run on my Windows 7 platforms. I know Zoom does, I did a session a couple of days ago. Zoom does have the time limit but the 9(?) minute time out could allow for recess breaks.

I have also run a session of Google recently so that would appear to work. Will MS be pushing their W11 for Teams?

6) I would probably watch the presentation to get a user’s insight into what Fusion can do rather than try and learn how to use each command so I would probably not install the app.

7) Time sounds Ok, I think it’s a good compromise given how many time zones we cover! That said, if it were run on a weekend we could fit it in somewhere across the middle of the day.

Thanks!

D

 

[Janger]

Fusion 360 is a desktop installed app with data storage on the cloud. It’s not a cloud or web app. The primary reason I believe is not vendor lock-in or other evil intentions. It is so the team collaboration features can work. I have no exposure to inventor so I can’t say if fusion is related or not.

I’ll propose a date in January.

 

[Former Member]

Sorry to burst your bubble Fusion 360 is cloud based, it may have some stand alone attributes but why do you think Autodesk can make as many changes it does on its lic. It is also why lesser machines can run it without bogging down, CAD (/CAM) software is a heavy user of computing (memory) power (one of the reasons I upgraded to a Dell XPS i9 64GB memory, 8GB video, 2TB SSD expandable to 8TB).

So before anyone suggests I'm wrong.....straight from Autodesk lips....

https://www.autodesk.com/products/fusion-360/blog/cloud-based-cad-faster-smarter/

Currently I starting to use ProgeCAD, a 3D clone of ACAD with a lifetime lic relatively inexpensive. Considering MeshCam for conversational/cam portion (likely in 6 months).

I see the advantages of learn what is done regards of the software (yes there are variations but .....) close enough to get people in the right direction.

 

[Susquatch]

Maybe January would work better for people. I particularly wanted you @Susquatch to be able to attend.

@Susquatch can you make a wifi or corded hot spot out of your phone and connect your computer to it? And is it effective and faster? If you wanted to try and test it with me we could do that. On Google meetups. That would help me too with verifying this approach would work.

Yes, I can tether to my phone. But that doesn't really buy me enough additional speed for the computer. When you run the complexity of a desktop through the phone on a slow phone internet connection it still grinds to a crawl.

The problem is really simple. My farm is in the fringe area between large urban centers. There is no incentive to provide high-speed internet here because there is no demand. Therefore, there is no high speed here. It's fine for typing, and still photos, and even voice is ok. But forget things like live graphics.

I did price Starlink and almost choked. The annual user fees would pay for a 3D printer......

I'll find a way to make it work even if all I do is tap into voice.

 

[Tom O]

Could it be recorded and sent to him?

 

[Matt-Aburg]

Could it be recorded and sent to him?

teams can

 

[PeterT]

Looks like zoom as well, recording would be saved on organizers pc. Wouldn't surprise me if all the meeting apps had similar functionality (and limitations) - they all want your business in some form of account. I have heard where guys will set up X meeting sessions staggered with a 10 minute break between each to get around the max minutes per meeting.

Can you record video calls with the free version of Zoom?

Answer: Zoom is a popular video conferencing app that allows you to host and join online meetings. You may want to record your Zoom meetings for later reference, training, or sharing. But can you record video calls with the free version of Zoom? The answer is yes, but there are some limitations a...

www.quora.com

 

[Janger]

Sorry to burst your bubble Fusion 360 is cloud based, it may have some stand alone attributes but why do you think Autodesk can make as many changes it does on its lic. It is also why lesser machines can run it without bogging down, CAD (/CAM) software is a heavy user of computing (memory) power (one of the reasons I upgraded to a Dell XPS i9 64GB memory, 8GB video, 2TB SSD expandable to 8TB).

So before anyone suggests I'm wrong.....straight from Autodesk lips....

https://www.autodesk.com/products/fusion-360/blog/cloud-based-cad-faster-smarter/

Currently I starting to use ProgeCAD, a 3D clone of ACAD with a lifetime lic relatively inexpensive. Considering MeshCam for conversational/cam portion (likely in 6 months).

I see the advantages of learn what is done regards of the software (yes there are variations but .....) close enough to get people in the right direction.

Degen, are you trying to make me mad by phrasing your post in this way? How about I rephrase. John, autodesk claims in this article Fusion 360 is a cloud based app but you think it isn’t. Why is that?

I think a lot of companies are claiming products to be cloud based for marketing reasons and also because there is a lot of pressure on IT groups to buy software that is easier to support. If the proposer to buy can indicate it is cloud based I think it ticks some boxes.

I define cloud apps myself as software that primarily runs on the server. For example Salesforce, Servicenow, most of the google stack of solutions, internet web based banking, Facebook. You don't need to install anything (beyond the browser) just go to the right web site. If you have to download an application and install it is that cloud based? Even if your data is stored on the server? No, not really. The end of that marketing article says "Download now" and install it. It's an app. Yes there are some other parts to the Fusion stack which are available on the web - but if you want to design any parts you're on the desktop application. There are other apps that also say they are 'cloud' ie. the sales people say so. - but no not really.

Many of the advantages of cloud systems are not present in Fusion. You have to install, it takes a lot of resources to work effectively, updates are required and updates have to be downloaded and installed (updates are automatic and seamless credit to Autodesk), different versions are needed for different hardware, it runs locally. You could store your data locally with exports and uploads, painful but you could if you really saw a need for it.

The design files you make in Fusion are on the cloud, and this enables a lot of interesting group editing opportunities, parallel design efforts by multiple people, and other features I don’t have like generative design. The Autodesk license does not cause me any particular concern. People in sensitive industries (defence?) might have more concerns than me. The yearly price increases do however concern me.

Fusion makes considerable demands on your computer and it does not run well on lesser machines.

 

[Former Member]

Degen, are you trying to make me mad by phrasing your post in this way? How about I rephrase. John, autodesk claims in this article Fusion 360 is a cloud based app but you think it isn’t. Why is that?

I think a lot of companies are claiming products to be cloud based for marketing reasons and also because there is a lot of pressure on IT groups to buy software that is easier to support. If the proposer to buy can indicate it is cloud based I think it ticks some boxes.

I define cloud apps myself as software that primarily runs on the server. For example Salesforce, Servicenow, most of the google stack of solutions, internet web based banking, Facebook. You don't need to install anything (beyond the browser) just go to the right web site. If you have to download an application and install it is that cloud based? Even if your data is stored on the server? No, not really. The end of that marketing article says "Download now" and install it. It's an app. Yes there are some other parts to the Fusion stack which are available on the web - but if you want to design any parts you're on the desktop application. There are other apps that also say they are 'cloud' ie. the sales people say so. - but no not really.

Many of the advantages of cloud systems are not present in Fusion. You have to install, it takes a lot of resources to work effectively, updates are required and updates have to be downloaded and installed (updates are automatic and seamless credit to Autodesk), different versions are needed for different hardware, it runs locally. You could store your data locally with exports and uploads, painful but you could if really saw a need for it.

The design files you make in Fusion are on the cloud, and this enables a lot of interesting group editing opportunities, parallel design efforts by multiple people, and other features I don’t have like generative design. The Autodesk license does not cause me any particular concern. People in sensitive industries (defence?) might have more concerns than me. The yearly price increases do however concern me.

Fusion makes considerable demands on your computer and it does not run well on lesser machines.

Autodesk claims that it is. Don't be upset with the messenger.

https://www.autodesk.com/products/fusion-360/blog/cloud-based-cad-faster-smarter/

I'm not against the log in and learn sessions, actually they are a great idea, but cloud based software (even remotely) I have issues with for several reasons (despite in some limited applications being a necessary evil):

Energy consumption, the highest user ahead of manufacturing or transport.
Massive use of data flow.
Privacy & security concerns (won't even go down the road of conspiracy theorists) and the avenues it opens up for misuse by individuals for monetary ill gotten gain.

I liken cloud base service to drugs and their dealer, hook you and make you pay for life. Why do you think great stand alone products go cloud or/and subscription based....profits.

 

[Janger]

Subscriptions have some drawbacks I agree. And some advantages - affordability. How much is a seat for Solidworks? Or Esprit? $5K? How much would Fusion be if they used that model? $5K probably. And then maintenance fees if you want support and updates, usually that is 20%/year so perhaps $1K/year. I was able to have a student working for me over the summer last year and I bought him a monthly Fusion seat, $85 a month for 3 months. I can manage that! There are other examples. Adobe creative suite? Each one of those programs in the suite used to be several hundred dollars. Now you can get it all monthly for an affordable rate. We don't mind other products with subscription models. Phones. Utilities. Magazines. Banking. Taxes. (ok maybe we do mind but given the alternatives?)

For Fusion I think of the annual fee as just paying the maintenance for the software. It adds up, but for a great CAD system AND the professional CAM, I'm not aware of anything else. Master Cam or Gibb CAM alone is far more than Fusion. For me Fusion is a good option. You're free to make up your own mind.

Energy consumption, the highest user ahead of manufacturing or transport.
Massive use of data flow.
Privacy & security concerns (won't even go down the road of conspiracy theorists) and the avenues it opens up for misuse by individuals for monetary ill gotten gain.

Energy consumption? As I've explained Fusion runs primarily on your computer. For fusion this is not an issue.

Massive Data flow? some communication for file storage - it's thin. Far thinner than Facebook for example or streaming a show.

Privacy? Your data is on another server. I don't really see the problem. It's your data - Autodesk is not interested in it and preserving your privacy is in their best interest. My exposure is far less than many other systems which already have my data. Banking, Insurance, government, health records. I know people have different opinions on this but for me, regarding Fusion specifically, I'm not particularly concerned.

 

[Susquatch]

I define cloud apps myself as software that primarily runs on the server.

I agree with your definition of Cloud Based Software. To be cloud based, the software has to run on a server and spool input/output to the user on a satelite PC via the web or a separate display driver. Essentially, the PC becomes a dumb terminal.

Cloud based storage is just files stored on the cloud, perhaps synced to local data, perhaps not.

But that's my definition.

I tested Fusion 3D just now by loading it, allowing it to validate my license, and then disconnecting from the internet.

This prompted an error message that said that collaboration data and file changes couldn't be synced off line but could be saved locally.

ALL OTHER FUNCTIONS I TRIED WORKED JUST FINE OFF LINE.

This tells me that Fusion is running on my PC, not on the cloud.

My conclusion is that Fusion 360 runs locally on my PC and does not require a server to do anything except collaborate and save files on the cloud.

It is possible that individuals who work at Autodesk define cloud based differently than I do. And that's ok with me. I speak English, not jIbberish LOL!

But by my own definitions, Fusion 360 has not yet gone down the server based cloud operation path. However, we never know what the future will bring. Cloud based operation totally clobbers piracy so it's prolly coming to my desktop soon. I suppose it's also possible that some specific modules might require cloud based server processing. But they appear to be a minority right now if they even exist at all.

 

[Janger]

Yes cloud is dumb terminal equivalent. That's a good way to put it John.

Fusion processes file imports (say .DXF) and exports in the cloud. And I think there is a fancy rendering generating option which uses cloud, and pay for tokens! But they have local image rendering too I'm just looking at. I don't see the cloud rendering anymore. Maybe they dropped it. There could be other cloud required parts.

 

[Janger]

Considering MeshCam for conversational/cam portion (likely in 6 months).

Degen - this is good information. MeshCam Pro ($665CAD) supports simulation, contour and pocket paths. On the downside it is not integrated with the CAD solution. So when you discover an issue with the model then you have to go back to your CAD solution, make the changes, re-export the file, then flip back to MeshCam and reload the file. That would be aggravating. (if one was suspicious you might think Autocad made the Fusion file export on the cloud to slow you down as friction to keep you in their environment). No updates though for $665 so you may need to upgrade to the next version by buying it again. If I get tired of paying Autocad every year then this could be a fall back option.

 

[Former Member]

ProgeCAD Autodesk ACAD2023 Alternative US$399.00 lifetime lic, with 3D, Meshcam for the Cam side for US$499.00 lifetime lic. Alternatives that are worth looking at. Currently I've got ProgeCAD, like it, recommended to a shop I know and they've switched, tried Meshcam, seems ok, but need to run some serious tests first to see how it works and does the code for the machine. Currently Centriods Intercon does what I need in a 2D+1 format, true 3D requires a lot more.

A friend used to be a Autodesk agent selling complete systems and training. His comment was they are a selling business not a CAD solution company anymore.

 

[gerritv]

I liken cloud base service to drugs and their dealer, hook you and make you pay for life. Why do you think great stand alone products go cloud or/and subscription based....profits.

Writing, enhancing and maintaining sw requires people, which require money. So getting people to pay yearly is a way to keep a business viable. If everyone buys once and never pays for support, where does a company get funds for development and support? At some point your market gets saturated. Alibre came and went with their buy-once model, and was eventually resurrected. But without recurring fees there is no future IMO. Even Alibre now has subscription-based service in addition to pay-once-and-hope-it-keeps-working model.