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slow-poke

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The tube analogy isn't enough for me. My bulb isn't glowing. A bit much to ask you to take the time to explain. Do you know of a writeup someplace that describes how that acdc conversion is done at those power levels?
There are countless papers, link to Coles notes version:

I worked at both ends. Basically rectify the ac in the north, not unllike the ac to dc converter in the front end of a VFD except you need numerous stages to withstand the high voltages, each stage is a module that form an array or stack. The drive signals are optically isolated back to the control equipment (that's the part we worked on). At the Dorsey side similar hardware, where the 3-phase is regenerated. Countless control signals are required between the two ends, the most critical being what is referred to as the alpha or load signal that tells the North how much power is required at Dorsey.

BP1 with the mercury arc valves looks like something out of a science fiction movie. Apparently they have now replaced the MAV's with thyristors.
 
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Susquatch

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There are countless papers, link to Coles notes version:

Thank you for that!

The Coles notes version listed many links, which led to more links, which led to papers that gave me enough info to satisfy my curiosity.

It's fascinating stuff. I never would have guessed you could use solid state devices at these voltages. But the stacking approach with isolated optical control systems is a cool solution. Even at a Killovolt each, those are impressive devices. I can only imagine what even one of those thyristors looks like let alone how that huge thyristor is actually made. It's another whole world quite opposite to microelectronics.

This little exercise in learning about long distance DC power distribution also helped me understand why I dislike youtube. Not once did the content browsing on this subject suggest a YouTube video. There are none. Basically, the guys who really understand such things don't do YouTube videos. Yet, that's the kind of info I usually want. I don't just want to know how, I also want why and the science to support that. To me, it's like the difference between reading a research paper and an uneducated journalists version of the paper.

What I read contained enough info for my needs for almost everything except the ground path. That was fascinating. What does the ground return terminal for that look like, how big is it, and how is it made?
 

slow-poke

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What I read contained enough info for my needs for almost everything except the ground path. That was fascinating. What does the ground return terminal for that look like, how big is it, and how is it made?
The ground path is not like what we normally think of like a ground rod, it's a reasonably large grid of buried cable and I assume rods (obviously I could not see any of the actual buried portion), the grounded grid area was perhaps the size of 10 soccer fields with the ground lead approaching via wooden poles much like a feeder. The interesting thing (if what they told us is correct) is that the majority of the current flows straight down to the center of the earth and then returns in a straight line to the other end (talking about the long path!) Apparently that's the path of least resistance.
 

Susquatch

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The interesting thing (if what they told us is correct) is that the majority of the current flows straight down to the center of the earth and then returns in a straight line to the other end (talking about the long path!) Apparently that's the path of least resistance.

Actually, I assumed that. Earth's crust is only 5 to 50 km thick for most places and I assume Manitoba is prolly 20 - just a WAG. Conductivity under our floating crust is way better than regular rock and gets better and better the deeper you go. So it only makes sense that most of the ground current for a link that is so long would go way down and then back up. Prolly not to the very center and back though. I'd think if it more like a big saggy fishing dragnet loop.

Ya, it also makes good sense to just bury a huge grid of cable. Don't know why I didn't think of that. I had in mind some km deep drill holes that @CWret did for them.

What is lightning activity in that area like?
 

slow-poke

Ultra Member
Lightning? probably similar to Ontario I guess?

Wind has created some problems.

They really don't like outages (IIRC it cost $500k an hour or day?) so they do a fair bit if live line work were the guys clip on the energized line via helicopter, nothing like being energized at 500kV to wake you up in the morning. Not sure if it's true but we were told the linemen get paid an extra fee beyond their other extra fees because apparently they age faster when energized. Apparently your hair sticks straight out! I wonder what sensations you feel the moment the connection is made?

I'm a bit of an adrenaline junkie; racing, parachuting, scuba cave diving etc, but I would pass on the 500kV hookup. If you ever walk under low hanging transmission lines in a switch yard it doesn't feel normal.
 
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Bandit

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Thanks "slow-poke", I also had no idea that DC power was being used for power transmission anywhere like that either. I am always amazed about some things like this ( and many others) the size, the "power " being generated and being used, and in this case being converted back and forth AC to DC. And to say nothing of finding out about "grounding" currents/fields going deep into the earth and back again, I thought that was a kind of "surface" 10 ft.+- deep thing.
We had a ground grid put in around the sewage plant I worked at. The plant was in a slightly deep narrow valley, a concrete batch plant was right beside side but about 20ft. higher on a bank, with the towers and high tanks, it was a bit of a lightening magnet. After a number of near strikes that took out pieces of control equipment which would result in thousands of dollars of reprogramming and replacing parts and having to operate some of the plants equipment manually, or run, operate with work arounds. I was also having trouble with why we didn't have more grounding around the plant. An earlier electrician had told me it was all built to spec. I basicly said bull $&$@, might be spec, but no way it could handle anything from a near hit load.
I talked to an older electrician about this when he was doing some other work for us, and after looking things over he felt that the plant was a very large grid above ground that had power wire, sensor wires, etc. running many places, laying in metal trays, metal walkways and railings, metal piping, and so on.
The result, a go over of the grounding, adding extra tie points, and in earth/dirt grid put in at other end of plant with a somewhat "large" cable going to it. This seemed to prevent our previous problems very well.
A few years later the concrete plant was moved out, which also helped.
Luckily, we never had a direct hit.
 

Susquatch

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Lightning? probably similar to Ontario I guess?

Wind has created some problems.

OK. I guess I just figured that big grounds like that would attract much more lightning.

My experiences with lighting was with a big bull that got killed standing under a tree in a storm when I was a boy. You would think that would have scarred me for life. But it hasn't. Other than a very close strike while I was sitting on the throne, I enjoy watching it. We had tall radio towers across from us for 5 years. It was very eery because lightning would continuously hit the towers but there would be no thunder to go with it. Just a sheeting noise like shaking a sheet of plastic. Fascinating to watch.
 

DPittman

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My experiences with lighting was with a big bull that got killed standing under a tree in a storm when I was a boy.
Every few years in Alberta or Saskatchewan there's a report of someone that lost a surprising number of cows during a lightning storm. The cattle all crowd into the corner of a fence and lightning either strikes one of them (or the fence possibly?) and kills the all in one strike! I was always surprised at how many could be killed at once (like 15+ or something crazy like that)
 

Ironman

Ultra Member
It seems I start long winded threads. We have a 500kDC line in sight of our house and I like watching the powerline riders getting onto their little carts. They say it tickles all over when you are close. They throw a hook from the chopper to the line and there is about a 2ft spark just getting the chopper and the line at the same potential before the rider gets off the chopper.
 
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Ironman

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Well if everybody stayed on topic we would know by now if the device works or not. Members here would be building these units for sale and scaling them up for "MORE POWER" :)
Well as I see it we are on topic.
We who are somewhat attached to reality, by the fact that we have to use math and understand cause and effect, can enjoy the comedy of these videos and the ideas they promote. But there are millions who can't, who have the ear of gov't, and can be fooled by a couple of aspirin pills.
 
But there are millions who can't, who have the ear of gov't, and can be fooled by a couple of aspirin pills.
When I am dealing with someone who has a widely different view than my own and a little smile crosses my lips, it because I am reminded of something I once read.......
"Some people are like slinkies..... Neither one serves a practical purpose, but both put a smile on your face when you push them down the stairs. ":rolleyes:
 
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