Free Energy
- Thread starter Ironman
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Ironman
Ultra Member
Here is a true story.
We were out testing windshield wipers years ago. But it wasn't raining, so we outfitted the car with squirt nozzles and put and big water tank in the trunk.
We ran out if water and saw a guy watering his grass. So we asked him if he would fill our tank. He happily agreed to do that.
As he filled the tank we all talked and he came to know we were engineers doing R&D. He started to get more and more angry as time passed.
As the tank got full he started ranting about car companies and big oil hiding technology from the masses. Just before we drove away, my colleague took out two aspirins he always carried with him, popped them into the tank, closed the lid, and we drove away, leaving that poor gullible kind Samaratin standing there with his mouth open. I'm pretty sure he told a hundred people about those evil profit hungry car guys hiding their technology.
We were out testing windshield wipers years ago. But it wasn't raining, so we outfitted the car with squirt nozzles and put and big water tank in the trunk.
We ran out if water and saw a guy watering his grass. So we asked him if he would fill our tank. He happily agreed to do that.
As he filled the tank we all talked and he came to know we were engineers doing R&D. He started to get more and more angry as time passed.
As the tank got full he started ranting about car companies and big oil hiding technology from the masses. Just before we drove away, my colleague took out two aspirins he always carried with him, popped them into the tank, closed the lid, and we drove away, leaving that poor gullible kind Samaratin standing there with his mouth open. I'm pretty sure he told a hundred people about those evil profit hungry car guys hiding their technology.
slow-poke
Ultra Member
When I think about an internal combustion engine, I still marvel that it was ever mass produced or the fact that they are still in use in such huge numbers, especially when compared to the elegance and simplicity of an electric motor. Obviously the amount of energy in a litre of gas has a lot to do with it. With the umpteen speed transmissions, VVT etc. etc. I think they have rung about as much as they can out of an inherently inefficient design and for city commuters makes little sense at this point. I'm really looking forward to an electric car for city use, 95% of the time my trips are < 20km. Until then, 2 aspirins and a little water. Probably not a great time to purchase a Midas or rad shop;-)
Ironman
Ultra Member
A sanctimonious dwarf in Ottawa has been watching this Utube.
I think you have been into the coolaide...... LOL!
But seriously, you are absolutely right about energy density. However you are probably underestimating the difference. Even with the latest batteries, liquid fuels store 75x more energy per unit of weight. So it's not just a little amount of energy difference. Factor in that horrible IC combustion efficiency and your still at 35:1.
Gasoline is the energy density king of the hill at 50 MJ/kg or 35MJ/L. The best batteries of today are only 350 Wh/kg and state of the art is double that but not yet commercialized. For comparison, 350Wh = 1.25 MJ
Gasoline has been around forever, yet improvements continue to roll out. The mistake most governments and the media make when they compare gasoline to batteries is to use projections for battery energy density improvements, but assume gasoline won't advance any more than it already has. Yet it does for the very reasons you mention and a thousand more.
For city use like you think you will experience, an EV might make good sense. At least for now. It might be a different story when everyone in the city plugs in their EV at the same time each evening.
And of course, I'm still waiting for a level playing field. EVs are subsidized right now while ICs are taxed. That's of course to increase sales ratio of EVs. When that goes away, it will be an interesting study of human behaviour. When the US & Canada considered removing the subsidies, the EV industry went nuts saying it wasn't fair cuz it would kill them.
IMHO, the judgement is in the hands of buyers. I was once asked at a conference why minivans were so popular when they cost 2x as much and usually only carry one passenger. The answer is "convenience". Consumers love convenience. They could buy an economy car for 95% of their driving but they want that minivan for the 5% of the time they need it. Unless they can afford a gas car and an EV, most buyers will get the gas car cuz they can fill up in 5 minutes at any of hundreds of stations along their trip from anywhere to anywhere.
An all electric fleet might make good sense to a bureaucrat in Ottawa by 2035, but I've seen mandates like that come and go throughout my life. You can't just pass a law to make the sky turn green. Convenience is still king in the market and I bet it stays that way for the rest of my life anyway.
I've said this on here before and I'll say it here again. The dark horse in the room isn't EVs. It is plantoline. High energy density liquid HCs extracted directly from bio-engineered plants. Truly Green Affordable Convenience. It's in the works now so maybe I'll even drive one before I die. THAT would be SO COOL!
Ironman
Ultra Member
When I went to school back in 1965, my guidance counsellor was supposed to guide me in choosing a career. I was in the program they looked down on, called vocational, now STEM.
I stated that I wanted to be an auto mechanic. Having been soaked in the red paint all teachers use, he violently opposed this, and proved to me that in 10 years there would be no oil, and there would be no cars because of this. I was young and drank the kool-aid, and because of that, never went to vocational school and went into the mines instead. It was a good life, and I don't regret it but often think back to the evil these people relentlessly promote.
IMHO, now is a great time for a Midas shop purchase.
You've had a good life and you are happy with it. That's all that matters.
That BS about peak oil coloured so many opinions back in the day. It's really too bad that lie was ever told. It was scary and that's why it lived on for so long.
That portion of society who spread those lies ran out of excuses as they continued to find new oil faster than we could use it. The folks who screamed peak oil back then, scream climate change today. A scared public is easy to manipulate.
Read "RISK - The Science and Politics of Fear" by Dan Gardner.
This is/has been an on going problem/debait/concern ( I don't know what to call it any more). The various governments are mixed in it, fore and against, God/Gods? help us, and very few of them know much! (The governments.)
I have been trying to figure out, visualize, a 400 hp. tractor, doing field work, (lots of them around here, but pick any hp.) So if this unit is 400 hp., (electric) we would need a 300 kilowatt generator to power it. (Not figureing losses).
So what would a battery pack look like to power this?? Now remember, we need to be able to operate for 10-12 hours, sometimes more in one go. We need that hp. nearly all the time doing the work. More to the point, what will it take to recharge the battery pack, and how long! Likely need a second tractor to use while recharging the first one. There may not be any lights in the night or dinner cooked, etc. For a few miles around, while recharging, if the grid will even handle it!
Long and short of it, for the moment, it's easy to pack a 5 gallon/20litre container of fuel in the back, but a spare battery pack?!?
Anyone been hearing thing about Tesla transport trucks, or others lately?
Please note, the above has not factored in any losses, size of wiring, and I don't know what else!
I have been trying to figure out, visualize, a 400 hp. tractor, doing field work, (lots of them around here, but pick any hp.) So if this unit is 400 hp., (electric) we would need a 300 kilowatt generator to power it. (Not figureing losses).
So what would a battery pack look like to power this?? Now remember, we need to be able to operate for 10-12 hours, sometimes more in one go. We need that hp. nearly all the time doing the work. More to the point, what will it take to recharge the battery pack, and how long! Likely need a second tractor to use while recharging the first one. There may not be any lights in the night or dinner cooked, etc. For a few miles around, while recharging, if the grid will even handle it!
Long and short of it, for the moment, it's easy to pack a 5 gallon/20litre container of fuel in the back, but a spare battery pack?!?
Anyone been hearing thing about Tesla transport trucks, or others lately?
Please note, the above has not factored in any losses, size of wiring, and I don't know what else!
This one is EASY. They exist. But only for a demo plot......
Its just like those big solar powered press conferences run off a diesel "back-up" generator.
Seriously though, it's hard to beat the low speed torque of an electric motor. Hence all the diesel electric locomotives running the railways of North America. If the drive system didn't take up so much room, and cost so much, I could easily see diesel electric tractors.
Maybe be should start a Good Reads Post.
Another good one, more about the relentless underlying mindset that refuses to look at facts & data: Fossil Future by Alex Epstein. Why Global Human Flourishing Requires More Oil, Coal, and Natural Gas—Not Less. (Written by a Philosopher no less, but he would make a great engineer).
Science Fictions by Stuart Ritchie. How Fraud, Bias, Negligence, and Hype Undermine the Search for Truth. (You will gain an appreciation of inner workings of studies, papers, journals & academic institution gaming the system, all of which is not in the best interest of science or scientific method).
I just downloaded Animal Farm for old times sake. Sadly, despite being written in the 1940s, you can still identify the characters in whatever decade you are in. A rather sad testament to humanity.
The Science of Fear might be the Audible format?
Another good one, more about the relentless underlying mindset that refuses to look at facts & data: Fossil Future by Alex Epstein. Why Global Human Flourishing Requires More Oil, Coal, and Natural Gas—Not Less. (Written by a Philosopher no less, but he would make a great engineer).
Science Fictions by Stuart Ritchie. How Fraud, Bias, Negligence, and Hype Undermine the Search for Truth. (You will gain an appreciation of inner workings of studies, papers, journals & academic institution gaming the system, all of which is not in the best interest of science or scientific method).
I just downloaded Animal Farm for old times sake. Sadly, despite being written in the 1940s, you can still identify the characters in whatever decade you are in. A rather sad testament to humanity.
My wife worked for an investment company once. There would be sales people come to her asking her to make graphs etc. showing that certain investments would do well over certain time periods etc. All by changing times scales and returns and so on, not false, but fooling the eye/ mind into thinking better or worse.
It sits on the shelf beside the 100mpg carb. lol
Doesn't matter what the gov says, dino juice isn't going away any time soon. Mandating all electric new vehicles to the general public in 2035 will just drive up the price of used ICE machines.
I see electric in about the same place gas was in the early days of the automobile, no infrastructure (fuel, repair, cost) to support it and huge distrust from the public but look where we are now. For electric the infrastructure (cost, charging stations, battery tech and the power grid) will all need to be upto the task before they will be mainstream. The cost of the cars themselves will need to come down to where all can afford them and be able to get to where they used to go in their ICE cars.
Battery tech is entering the stage of solid state that in theory will run the big machines, trucks and tractors all day without recharging and will recharge in time to use them again as needed.
Convenience is a big factor if you travel long distance. You need to be able to plan ahead for charging time, chargers not working and have the time available to be longer on the road. That's one part that people don't want to deal with having an electric car. Our first road trip with Kona was to Edmonton from Sooke, took two days each way, had our stops and alternate stops planned and it was a really good trip.
I had one guy tell me I must be rich to own an electric car, this from the guy fueling up his $100k Raptor pickup towing the BBC ski boat.
Anyway, it all depends on your wants and needs and in 20 years who knows where technology will take us, maybe we'll be driving around nuke powered cars or filling our tanks with farts (methane) as we drive.
My two cents.
Ironman
Ultra Member
If you take the time to study the formation of oil, Dino is another fear buzz word. There is too much info that it is abiogenic. The earths gift to us, and it refuses to stay in the ground. There is more leaking out of fissures under the Bay of Mexico than the Deepwater Horizon released every single year.
I just re-read 1984 and sickening as it is, I realized what a clear vision of the future he had.
See link. Solid state research has been ongoing for some time. They do have promise in certain areas like improved charge rate which is another major e-handicap. But as if this writing I don't think the numbers go round. 400 WH/kg = 1.42 MJ/kg = 2.8% the energy density of common hydrocarbon fuels. Even if they double the current performance it would be only 5% of HC. You can direct translate that percent into how long big machines will run (under optimal conditions).
Solid-state battery - Wikipedia
Ah. What everyone is missing on this topic is what's not being said, or what's being said but couched in the finest, smoothest, purest BS money can buy, is that the a$$hats promoting this garbage don't want everyone to have an EV (or tractor, or freight truck) that's allowed to operate at your will. They want to get everyone hooked on 'em, then dictate when/where you can charge/drive. Gasoline & diesel represent uncontrollable freedom.
Conspiracy theory? Hardly. See "15 minute cities" and how they want to penalize you for travelling outside your designated jurisdiction. It's all about control. There is no way in hell we can crank up the electrical grid over the next 11 years to be able to handle the transition to electric cars, trucks, farm equipment, freight trucks, aircraft, etc., etc., etc, especially with bird choppers & solar panels. And what is it about these idiots who refuse to acknowledge that the only way these monstrosities can be manufactured is by using carbon-based fuel? Can't be done with windmills & solar panels, no matter how many backup batteries blanket the planet.
Occasionally a little snippet will leak past the gates. For example, see Hans Gruber's little slip this week about the Feds no longer wanting to fund road infrastructure. See also their desire to limit fertilizers. They'd love to see the planet roll back to hunter/gatherer, living in a cave status.
And while I'm onna roll, why are we using food to water down gasoline? (Corn->methanol)
Without going into politics. The first question I always ask new sales trainees is “what car do you drive?”. This question is followed up with “why don’t you drive a used Pontiac?”. This leads into a discussion about pricing and relative value, and how buying decisions are made. Unless an electric vehicle fulfills more criteria than my current ICE Toyota, I ain’t buying one.
And if I had a pile of money, I’d be filling a warehouse with brand new ICE vehicles, ready to be sold as “used cars” in 2035.
And if I had a pile of money, I’d be filling a warehouse with brand new ICE vehicles, ready to be sold as “used cars” in 2035.