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fixing a folding shovel the wrong way (making a hirth joint)

mjautek

Well-Known Member
I haven't lived in toronto for long but this past winter was the first time where it snowed enough that I had to actually buy a snow shovel. princess auto had what I needed - something small with a plastic hinge so it could be stowed in a car more easily. Made in canada too - how bad could it be?

well I broke it the third or so time I used it. but this was an opportunity to make something I've wanted to make for a while - a hirth coupling. the inspiration for this design was the s&s couplers my uncle has on some of his bikes (for disassembly for transport). hirth couplings are pretty neat in that they are self-centering and with their tapered teeth, wear into each other with use. these properties, and elastic averaging over many teeth, are the principles used for super precision indexing devices such as the Moore 1440, AA gage ultradex or newbould indexer (each worth a look up if you're a metrology nerd, but I'm straying off topic...). anyways for us, hirth couplings offer some cool abilities without being too complicated to make - all you need is a divding device that can tilt, and some sort of tapered cutter.

so for my coupling, I went for 12 teeth with a 60° included angle. I used a calculator on grabcad to figure out the angles - not sure how they derived things but it worked OK.

1742965293953.png

so the main attraction here is the 13.2° angle... also this calculator doesn't spit out the face taper angle that you cut on the lathe. too lazy to explain that one but anyways I got it from the cad

1742964083818.jpeg

cross section. one is male threaded and the other has a shoulder for a locking ring. i should have made it some multiple of 8tpi to speed things up but I'm lazy in a stupid way and the 127t gear was in the box so I think it was M28(?)x2 or something

machining was pretty straightforward (I guess?). I was lazy used a D bit I usually use to engrave to cut the teeth; I should have ground a new tool with a flatter tip, should have changed to the high speed head blah blah blah... in the end it needed a bit of deburring with files then the bead blaster but wasn't too bad.

1742964156535.png

here's that 13.2° angle I guess

1742964183352.png

twisting and turning the dividing head, this time to slit the split collet thing. this is a shit setup btw cause I was lazy and didn't want to use the horizontal spindle


and the other trick was making the other end of each coupling an expanding collet to fit inside the tube, instead of cross drilling and bolting or whatever. I haven't used the shovel in anger (no more snow of course) but it feels pretty solid. total time from start of cad to finished product maybe 8-10 hours at my pace (including time for waiting for my small brain to stop overheating, smoking darts, hitting stuff with a hammer, looking at cat pictures on my phone, etc...).

1742964214734.png

well I should have exposure comped this eh

1742964241730.png

locking ring scalloped for grip and roll engraved. gotta have a bit of class huh

1742964265776.png

all of the bits laid out. the socket head screws draw the tapered plugs in a tapered socket in the slit end of the coupling, expanding it and locking it into the tube handle. oh yeah I think it's a 10° included angle

1742964285236.png

well it kinda looks like the teeth have pretty shitty contact eh

anyways - a stupid project (and basically procrastinating on other more worthwhile projects lol) but sometimes it's fun to do something pointless but funny.
 
A shit project eh...... I love it!

I'd never do that on a snow shovel though. All my shovels are 10x that size. I much prefer the snowblower. I have a little walk-behind one for the sidewalks, and a big tractor mounted blower for the driveway.

Maybe the post for my Purple Martin House?

Did you make drawings?
 
I haven't lived in toronto for long but this past winter was the first time where it snowed enough that I had to actually buy a snow shovel. princess auto had what I needed - something small with a plastic hinge so it could be stowed in a car more easily. Made in canada too - how bad could it be?

well I broke it the third or so time I used it. but this was an opportunity to make something I've wanted to make for a while - a hirth coupling. the inspiration for this design was the s&s couplers my uncle has on some of his bikes (for disassembly for transport). hirth couplings are pretty neat in that they are self-centering and with their tapered teeth, wear into each other with use. these properties, and elastic averaging over many teeth, are the principles used for super precision indexing devices such as the Moore 1440, AA gage ultradex or newbould indexer (each worth a look up if you're a metrology nerd, but I'm straying off topic...). anyways for us, hirth couplings offer some cool abilities without being too complicated to make - all you need is a divding device that can tilt, and some sort of tapered cutter.

so for my coupling, I went for 12 teeth with a 60° included angle. I used a calculator on grabcad to figure out the angles - not sure how they derived things but it worked OK.

View attachment 62230
so the main attraction here is the 13.2° angle... also this calculator doesn't spit out the face taper angle that you cut on the lathe. too lazy to explain that one but anyways I got it from the cad

View attachment 62223
cross section. one is male threaded and the other has a shoulder for a locking ring. i should have made it some multiple of 8tpi to speed things up but I'm lazy in a stupid way and the 127t gear was in the box so I think it was M28(?)x2 or something

machining was pretty straightforward (I guess?). I was lazy used a D bit I usually use to engrave to cut the teeth; I should have ground a new tool with a flatter tip, should have changed to the high speed head blah blah blah... in the end it needed a bit of deburring with files then the bead blaster but wasn't too bad.

View attachment 62224
here's that 13.2° angle I guess

View attachment 62225
twisting and turning the dividing head, this time to slit the split collet thing. this is a shit setup btw cause I was lazy and didn't want to use the horizontal spindle


and the other trick was making the other end of each coupling an expanding collet to fit inside the tube, instead of cross drilling and bolting or whatever. I haven't used the shovel in anger (no more snow of course) but it feels pretty solid. total time from start of cad to finished product maybe 8-10 hours at my pace (including time for waiting for my small brain to stop overheating, smoking darts, hitting stuff with a hammer, looking at cat pictures on my phone, etc...).

View attachment 62226
well I should have exposure comped this eh

View attachment 62227
locking ring scalloped for grip and roll engraved. gotta have a bit of class huh

View attachment 62228
all of the bits laid out. the socket head screws draw the tapered plugs in a tapered socket in the slit end of the coupling, expanding it and locking it into the tube handle. oh yeah I think it's a 10° included angle

View attachment 62229
well it kinda looks like the teeth have pretty shitty contact eh

anyways - a stupid project (and basically procrastinating on other more worthwhile projects lol) but sometimes it's fun to do something pointless but funny.
Were you all out of duct tape ?
 
Awesome. Not too many people on the block can say they have a Hirth coupled shovel.

Looks like we were lurking in the same areas to get the equations. Its amazing the places it turns up. For example it was used as a means to join crankshaft segments together which could then allow mid span bearing races over the joint. One of the model engines I was looking at used this this profile. I have a 60-deg cutter but have yet to make a test joint. I'm sliding it up my to-do list!
 

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I'd never do that on a snow shovel though. All my shovels are 10x that size

Did you make drawings?
yeah one of the many ironies here is that the shovel is actually worse than it was new because it's even shorter now (= even more back strain)

I did sort of make drawings but not real ones - just something messy to know what to machine.

Looks great but what is meant by "roll engraved"?
engraved with a roll engraving attachment (for engraving cylinders) I guess. I have an accessory for my pantograph engraver that rolls the part along so that the engraving cutter is always tangential to the part's surface. here's an old pic: different workpiece but hopefully you get the idea

1743008565463.png
 
yeah one of the many ironies here is that the shovel is actually worse than it was new because it's even shorter now (= even more back strain)

I did sort of make drawings but not real ones - just something messy to know what to machine.


engraved with a roll engraving attachment (for engraving cylinders) I guess. I have an accessory for my pantograph engraver that rolls the part along so that the engraving cutter is always tangential to the part's surface. here's an old pic: different workpiece but hopefully you get the idea

View attachment 62247
Ahhh! And thanks.

I was envisioning that somehow the engraving was done using a rolling die rather than simply rotating the stock as it was engraved. I've often mounted something on my 4th axis and rotated as I engraved on the periphery. Does your attachment rotate only between letters or rotate within each letter?
 
engraved with a roll engraving attachment (for engraving cylinders) I guess. I have an accessory for my pantograph engraver that rolls the part along so that the engraving cutter is always tangential to the part's surface.

Oh..... My...... God!

I want one!

I've been pondering how to do that for over a year now! I had just about given up till out of the blue you posted that to answer a simple question from @kstrauss.

I never considered rolling the part!

Please tell me more. And please DON'T tell me that the parts is rotating. That won't work. It has to roll......
 
Does your attachment rotate only between letters or rotate within each letter?
basically it turns one of the linear axes of the panto arm into a roll axis, fixed below the engraving spindle. so like transforming X-Y into cylindrical coordinates (X - θ ) if that's any easier to understand. here's a little timelapse video from a couple months ago, maybe seeing it in action makes things clearer

Please tell me more. And please DON'T tell me that the parts is rotating. That won't work. It has to roll......
deckel made a few variants of these roll engraving attachments, I have two of them. the GVWU uses a steel band against a disc to set the rotating ratio and can be tilted (for engraving cones), the GVW uses a rack and pinion. both rack and steel band can be flipped for reverse engraving or engraving concave surfaces. I did a small writeup on practical machinist where I have a pdf of the manual as well if you're curious

here's the page in the G1L catalogue describing them, sorry it's in french (lol), I actually have the real paper manuals but they're at my shop and I'm not at the moment:
1743016788869.png
 
Oh..... My...... God!

I want one!

I've been pondering how to do that for over a year now! I had just about given up till out of the blue you posted that to answer a simple question from @kstrauss.

I never considered rolling the part!

Please tell me more. And please DON'T tell me that the parts is rotating. That won't work. It has to roll......
I want one too, but... look at the price on ebay.


TonyK.

Grimsby Ontario Canada
 
I want one too, but... look at the price on ebay.


TonyK.

Grimsby Ontario Canada

for what it's worth, I bought both of mine (GVWU + GVW150) for 700$, which I think was a fair ish price. pantograph machines are virtually useless and basically worth scrap, and these are even more niche than pantos...
if you wanna buy one the real difficult thing is finding one in Canada. I have been keeping an eye out for years and in probably the past 7 years I have seen TWO 6021/GVWUs for sale (including the one I bought).

before I got mine I was seriously considering making one from scratch; linear bearings are pretty cheap nowadays...
 
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