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First time sweating / soldering copper pipe - Air compressor purchase and cooling line
- Thread starter Jwest7788
- Start date
Yep you nailed it.
I've always enjoyed sandblasting, so it was my target for air requirements when looking for a new compressor. Small restoration projects etc. That and upright, as the old one was horizontal, low Cfm and massive. Took up way too much floor space.
Should be good for air for quite some time. Haha
Sent from my iPhone.
I've always enjoyed sandblasting, so it was my target for air requirements when looking for a new compressor. Small restoration projects etc. That and upright, as the old one was horizontal, low Cfm and massive. Took up way too much floor space.
Should be good for air for quite some time. Haha
Sent from my iPhone.
Copper was purchased at:
Wolseley
Plumbing Supply Store
Address: 10775 42 St SE, Calgary, AB T2C 5B9
My brother in law is a plumber with an account here, so got the pipe for something like $10 per 12 feet. (1/2" m type)
Also, After some testing, I'm super happy with 1/2", as my pressure drop from the compressor to the farthest point in my system is essentially 0. With 1/4" test hose (3 feet) at the farthest point, I only loose ~5 psi when blasting, but feel the 1/4" hose is to blame there. The 1/2" pipe really has very low pressure drop over ~80'.
For the cost difference I would stick with 1/2" in future too.
Wolseley
Plumbing Supply Store
Address: 10775 42 St SE, Calgary, AB T2C 5B9
My brother in law is a plumber with an account here, so got the pipe for something like $10 per 12 feet. (1/2" m type)
Also, After some testing, I'm super happy with 1/2", as my pressure drop from the compressor to the farthest point in my system is essentially 0. With 1/4" test hose (3 feet) at the farthest point, I only loose ~5 psi when blasting, but feel the 1/4" hose is to blame there. The 1/2" pipe really has very low pressure drop over ~80'.
For the cost difference I would stick with 1/2" in future too.
how much CFM are you running at that distance? I'm thinking more for the plasma which is the farthest away distance and then potentially sandblasting with a pressure pot.. which is why I was thinking 3/4"
$10/12' is pretty damn cheap.. 3/4" 12' was like $40/12' I believe.
Where were you picking up your filters and regulators for so cheap?
I am thinking to throw the air dryer in between the head and the tank, its supposed to be good to around 250 psi, and I don't run my tank that high so that should be the best spot to pull out the moisture. If you want, I have a line on another one.. its bigger and heavier (I think it was 250cfm max), but it needs to be recharged...
$10/12' is pretty damn cheap.. 3/4" 12' was like $40/12' I believe.
Where were you picking up your filters and regulators for so cheap?
I am thinking to throw the air dryer in between the head and the tank, its supposed to be good to around 250 psi, and I don't run my tank that high so that should be the best spot to pull out the moisture. If you want, I have a line on another one.. its bigger and heavier (I think it was 250cfm max), but it needs to be recharged...
My pressure drop test was using a short hose to an air duster attachment. I'll test some more and take some pics of the test unit I made (and highly recommend everyone have one, super handy)
--> The pressure drop test setup thing I made is essentially: Male quick connect -> T fitting with guage -> female quick connect -- Can measure the drop anywhere. Particularly good for the end of the line, before the tool, so you can set the pressure high at the regulator to account for pressure drop before the tool.
I'll test tonight with an open ended 1/4" hose and let you know what I see. Not sure how to test higher flow then an open ended hose.. (I could open a ball valve and dump 1/2" pipe to atmosphere, but don't have any way to measure it, haha)
--> The pressure drop test setup thing I made is essentially: Male quick connect -> T fitting with guage -> female quick connect -- Can measure the drop anywhere. Particularly good for the end of the line, before the tool, so you can set the pressure high at the regulator to account for pressure drop before the tool.
I'll test tonight with an open ended 1/4" hose and let you know what I see. Not sure how to test higher flow then an open ended hose.. (I could open a ball valve and dump 1/2" pipe to atmosphere, but don't have any way to measure it, haha)
The pressure drop can be measured from anywhere I think.. meaning your main regulator will show the same pressure drop as the very end of the line as its a volume issue on that side and the regulator displays the pressure on that side also.. so dumping the line with a 1/2" ball valve should be fine, if you look at what your set pressure was and then what it is with the valve open... but at some point the regulator or filters become and issue. You've also got a lot of pipe in there that doesn't entirely help for dumping 1/2", if the outlet is smaller (1/4" ID) then the pipe likely acts as a reservoir of air, but at 1/2" it may restrict it.. not sure though.
Woops, not quite.
How pressure drop is actually a measure of air friction in the system. The smaller the line, the more friction compared to flow. Also, the more flow, the more friction. Both result in a friction induced pressure drop at the outlet.
Dumping close to the compressor, means less distance to travel, less friction, and therefore less drop. This test needs a gauge as close to the outlet as possible, as the farthest point from the compressor.
Here's a good calculator to help your planning stage too!
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/pressure-drop-compressed-air-pipes-d_852.html (The bottom calculator is CFM and PSI)
Just put in my specs, calc shows 2.33 PSI drop. Pretty close to empirical tests yesterday.
How much line do you plan on running? CFM requirement?
lol, yes.. you're right. I more meant it would be negligible.. 2.33PSI is.. nothing in the scheme of most air tools running ~100-140PSI. I didn't really qualify the pressure drop until it is 10+ PSI or so. I'm more concerned with the drop due to restriction, 1/4" line can really only carry so much air at a stable pressure (I don't want to have 1/4" lines running at 200psi if avoidable) which is the issue I often run into.. the plasma needs to have a dead line pressure of 140 to sustain it at around 90psi currently with 1/4" ID lines.
I think I'm looking in the 15-20 cfm range max.. I don't see a lot of air consumption happening at the same time in our shop, but the worst case would be a sandblasting and running the plasma, and the longest reach of the solid air header would be 50', then lines from there.
I think I'm looking in the 15-20 cfm range max.. I don't see a lot of air consumption happening at the same time in our shop, but the worst case would be a sandblasting and running the plasma, and the longest reach of the solid air header would be 50', then lines from there.
Agreed. The trick is definitely to avoid long lengths of 1/4" line. You can have hundreds of feet of 1/2" pipe with negligible PSI drop at 140PSI. Quick check shows 200' 1/2" pipe at 20CFM, 140PSI is only 7 PSI drop.
Here's a handy chart showing max CFM reccomendations too:
http://www.jgbhose.com/technical-reference-literature/maximum-recommended-air-flow.asp
All in all 1/2" looks to be more than capable for your future setup, both with regard to PSI drop, max flow @140PSI. 3/4" is guaranteed, haha.
Here's a handy chart showing max CFM reccomendations too:
http://www.jgbhose.com/technical-reference-literature/maximum-recommended-air-flow.asp
All in all 1/2" looks to be more than capable for your future setup, both with regard to PSI drop, max flow @140PSI. 3/4" is guaranteed, haha.
It's the expensive kitty litter that looks like little plastic beads. In fact it's silica gel, usually with a cobalt dye that turn from purple to pink when saturated with water.
I was tempted to use calcium chloride (available as DampRid) but I didn't like that it turns into a liquid when saturated and wasn't too clear on how it would react with the container/valves.
This makes so much more sense. I was picturing the normal sandy kind.
How does this stuff compare to the silica beads made specifically for air tools? Literally the same thing?
Just had an idea too. The dryer add ons can be pricy. But nothing stopping me from packing a seperator full to the brim with silica beads...
Hey All, Haven't been posting much lately, but have been busy working on this project, so want to share an update!
I finally got rid of that beast of a horizontal air compressor (~500lbs, cast iron, awful) I've had in my shop for two years now in favour of a vertical compressor.
Moving compressor home: (scary unloading this solo)
View attachment 656 View attachment 655 View attachment 653 View attachment 654 View attachment 652 View attachment 651
That last pump of the engine hoist when you know it's coming off the truck is terrifying, haha.
Next up was setting up a home-made auto tank drain. Really it's just a 12V actuated air solenoid valve:
View attachment 650
Hooked to a timer. The line was been snaked through the shop out the garage door. The little bit of plastic tube sticking out of the garage may freeze solid in the winter, now sure yet, but will update when I know.
I have a little sandblaster, and want to get into paint, but historically moisture was always an issue, as I didn't have enough distance from the compressor for the water to condense out. As I want to plumb my garage anyways, I spent the tail end of my weekend getting started with plumbing copper lines into the shop.
First step though, was getting the water to drop out by cooling the air to room temp.
View attachment 648 View attachment 649
I plan to pull the wood down and paint to match the decor, but for now just wanted to get working on the piping.
I found several sources and did alot of math before finally settling on 1/2" copper, and the above design for cooling the air, while maintaining a heavy slope to gather the water at the bottom. (Not done yet).
The above is where I left off before bed, hopefully make some more progress tonight.
I plan to make one more u-turn with the pipe at the bottom, to a T fitting with a drip leg. From there distribute to 6-8 locations across the garage (one per side, one per corner).
I've also decided sweating/soldering copper is pretty fun. Will likely work with it in future too!
Will take some more pics as I go.
JW
Hi all
Check out the second photo in this ad for a cnc table. They seem to have a HUGE air cooling pipe on the wall similar to the one Josh built.
http://www.kijiji.ca/v-view-details...ts&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=email_alerts
Tom Kitta
Ultra Member
That is a massive pipe based cooler - why people would do such a thing when you can simply run a short line through a water based cooler? I got my Princess Auto 11.5 and thought about running more copper pipe but figured that if I really run into a lot of water issues I can simply either a) run a chemical water dryer (which I build) or b) build small water based cooler - doesn't need to be anything fancy.
For sand blasting and cutting dry air is quite essential so something has to be done but 100 ft of pipe seems to maybe be a solution done before a) or b) was possible - or am I missing something?
For sand blasting and cutting dry air is quite essential so something has to be done but 100 ft of pipe seems to maybe be a solution done before a) or b) was possible - or am I missing something?
That's just a chiller, right? I picked up an ingersoll drystar a few months back and got it into service a month ago.. Noticeably nicer air, although your still supposed to run desiccant as well. I've seen lots of desiccant tower systems but they're too big and a pain for a small shop.
It'd be this one (pretty sure it's a 50cfm), but mine has a secondary cooler as well..
http://www.autobodytoolmart.com/ing...igh-temp-refrigerated-air-dryers-p-11415.aspx
It'd be this one (pretty sure it's a 50cfm), but mine has a secondary cooler as well..
http://www.autobodytoolmart.com/ing...igh-temp-refrigerated-air-dryers-p-11415.aspx
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Tom Kitta
Ultra Member
Wouldn't used "Ferrari" solution or home made version of it be far cheaper and effective than say 100ft of copper pipe? The cost of the pipe, cost of fittings, cost of installation (time is never free), and finally space taken up >> cost of dryer? I am sure a 20cfm dryer used could be had for 400.
Digging up this long dead thread because I happened to be reading it, with some updates now that a few months have gone by.
Yeah, when you look at it that way, a used chiller would probably be close to the price I paid. (Not including time, I think the total at the end of the day was around $300)
There is something to be said for a passive solution though. Right now, I don't have many outlets to spare. Im sure many know the feeling.
With my solution I get super handy, although probably redundant, exit ports at all my primary work stations, which after some time has passed, I still think it fantastically convenient. I could've used a hose reel, but this is very nice.
Also, having each section have it's own regulator makes my day a ton easier, each is set custom to the tool most frequently used at each location. Again, not needed, when often you only have (maybe) an hour a day to work, any time savings is good stuff.
Moisture still has never been an issue, haven't painted yet, but between the larger compressor and my cooling lines, I can blast all day on my benchtop sandblaster, never sputter any water, and the compressor actually still has time to shut off and rest (higher CFM then I need). I beleive for painting, all I would need is a small in-line desiccant filter, as there is no risk of liquid water at the gun.
There is an amazing satisfaction to opening the main drain and not hearing any air blow through for a full 3-4 seconds, before finally the last of the water is blown out of the drain leg.
All said and done, for my needs, I would definitely re-do this setup if I ever move. Overkill? Probably, but I'm very happy with the setup.
Yeah, when you look at it that way, a used chiller would probably be close to the price I paid. (Not including time, I think the total at the end of the day was around $300)
There is something to be said for a passive solution though. Right now, I don't have many outlets to spare. Im sure many know the feeling.
With my solution I get super handy, although probably redundant, exit ports at all my primary work stations, which after some time has passed, I still think it fantastically convenient. I could've used a hose reel, but this is very nice.
Also, having each section have it's own regulator makes my day a ton easier, each is set custom to the tool most frequently used at each location. Again, not needed, when often you only have (maybe) an hour a day to work, any time savings is good stuff.
Moisture still has never been an issue, haven't painted yet, but between the larger compressor and my cooling lines, I can blast all day on my benchtop sandblaster, never sputter any water, and the compressor actually still has time to shut off and rest (higher CFM then I need). I beleive for painting, all I would need is a small in-line desiccant filter, as there is no risk of liquid water at the gun.
There is an amazing satisfaction to opening the main drain and not hearing any air blow through for a full 3-4 seconds, before finally the last of the water is blown out of the drain leg.
All said and done, for my needs, I would definitely re-do this setup if I ever move. Overkill? Probably, but I'm very happy with the setup.