• Scam Alert. Members are reminded to NOT send money to buy anything. Don't buy things remote and have it shipped - go get it yourself, pay in person, and take your equipment with you. Scammers have burned people on this forum. Urgency, secrecy, excuses, selling for friend, newish members, FUD, are RED FLAGS. A video conference call is not adequate assurance. Face to face interactions are required. Please report suspicions to the forum admins. Stay Safe - anyone can get scammed.

Electric heater question

M

Megar arc 5040dd

Super User
I am no electrimagician so I want to run this past members on here and get opinions. First some background for context. I am in Saskatchewan where it is currently -26 C and I heat my small shop with an electric heater on a thermostat during the winter months. For context the shop is 16'x24' with a vaulted ceiling and a storage mezzanine. The heater hangs from the vaulted ceiling and is a typical construction type heater sadly I forget how many watts off the top of my head. The heater has done a fine job over the last several years all it has to do is keep the temp above freezing and when I am working I turn it up to a comfortable working temp. Now to get to my question would it be more cost effective to run a second heater at the other end of the shop? I have a construction heater sitting around so there would be no cost to add it. My theory is that 2 heaters should have to run for half as long as running just one. But where I start to question my theory is I am running two heater for half the amount of time but I am drawing twice as much power so does it end up making no difference at all? It would be great if I can get the electric bill down even a bit during the winter months but also I don't want to do it if it will just drive my electric bill higher. I am sure someone smarter than me will be able to tell me the ins and outs of what will happen adding a second heater.
 
Megar arc 5040dd said:
I am no electrimagician so I want to run this past members on here and get opinions. First some background for context. I am in Saskatchewan where it is currently -26 C and I heat my small shop with an electric heater on a thermostat during the winter months. For context the shop is 16'x24' with a vaulted ceiling and a storage mezzanine. The heater hangs from the vaulted ceiling and is a typical construction type heater sadly I forget how many watts off the top of my head. The heater has done a fine job over the last several years all it has to do is keep the temp above freezing and when I am working I turn it up to a comfortable working temp. Now to get to my question would it be more cost effective to run a second heater at the other end of the shop? I have a construction heater sitting around so there would be no cost to add it. My theory is that 2 heaters should have to run for half as long as running just one. But where I start to question my theory is I am running two heater for half the amount of time but I am drawing twice as much power so does it end up making no difference at all? It would be great if I can get the electric bill down even a bit during the winter months but also I don't want to do it if it will just drive my electric bill higher. I am sure someone smarter than me will be able to tell me the ins and outs of what will happen adding a second heater.
Click to expand...
You are doubling the KW output, so you should be able to attain higher indoor temperature given the same heat loss of the structure.

You're doubling your heating cost, buying 2x amount of KW hours, but you are delivering the heat twice as fast with two heaters and you can get to temp faster. That may mean you can use the space sooner, but likely not.

typical construction heater is between 3-5 KW 240v, 10,000 to 15,000 Btu/hr.

you are not going to get the electric bill down by any other means than not using the heating, or by improving the thermal envelope...
 
If you use two smaller heaters, 1/2 the size of the original and space them to distribute heat better, and keep one close to where you are working then you MAY be able to use them for less time, or turn the second off and let it be cooler further away.

the caveats being, how you dress, are you moving much, what type of heater it is and does it have mass to radiate the heat better etc etc.

from experience though, do not expect to save on costs by using more heaters.
 
quitereal said:
You might consider one of these little diesel heaters to supplement.
Click to expand...

Before anyone hunts around for options based on fuel switching, they'd really need to compare the price per million BTUs of heat with every fuel type and the local cost per unit of fuel.

This is difficult since every fuel is sold using a different unit of measure and you'd need to convert them all to price per million BTUs.

This is a lot of work, and I used to have a spreadsheet with these calculations I'd give to clients. I haven't used it in years but I do know that historically, unregulated diesel fuel costs more per million BTUs than regulated electricity rates. Then add in the distribution costs of diesel, ie running to gas station and the cost is even higher.

IIRC electric unit heaters also cost less to purchase than a diesel heater, and dont carry the risk of carbon monoxide fumes. My grandma died of carbon monoxide so this is sensitive issue for me
 
Megar arc 5040dd said:
I am no electrimagician so I want to run this past members on here and get opinions.
Click to expand...

@TorontoBuilder is correct but maybe I can make it simpler for you.

In simple terms, you cannot add more heaters and meaningfully reduce cost. There are really only 3 ways to reduce cost. Add insulation, reduce your target temperatures, or use a lower cost heat source.

The advantage of more heaters is only to get to your target temperature faster.

Of course, those are the generalities. One can always argue over small details.
 
Don't also forget the additional amperage draw of a second heater, you may not even have the capacity

I agree with everyone here, it will cost you the same for the desired temperature rise, or at least so close you wouldn't even notice, the only benefit is it would get up to temperature faster

The cheapest option would be top/bottom long johns and a toque, 5 degrees is very comfortable with long johns
 
As long as a second heater doesn't up my cost there is some possible benefit for me. I have a thermostat issue but only when it is really cold. The thermostat is a double pole electric thermostat and is located on an exterior wall since there are no interior walls. The issue I end up having is the colder it gets the warmer you have top turn the thermostat to maintain the same temp inside also the thermostat then heats up not from the surrounding room but from the electrical resistance and then shuts off. For example today I have it turn all the way up to 35 on the nob and the heater turns off after a short time and then comes on a while later rinse and repeat. I know that it is the thermostat and not the heater over heating or something like that because every couple years the contacts fuse together in these thermostats and then the heater runs continuously. This went unnoticed once and the inside temp got to 32 C!

Long story short if the second heater won't increase cost then maybe I can get the shop up to a comfortable temp easier with 2 heaters going at opposite ends of the shop at least when we are in a cold spell.
 
phaxtris said:
Don't also forget the additional amperage draw of a second heater, you may not even have the capacity

I agree with everyone here, it will cost you the same for the desired temperature rise, or at least so close you wouldn't even notice, the only benefit is it would get up to temperature faster

The cheapest option would be top/bottom long johns and a toque, 5 degrees is very comfortable with long johns
Click to expand...
For metal working I am comfortable if it is 10 degrees. but for wood working with glues and finishes I like to have it at least 15 or better. I also want it always above freezing so I don't get rusting issues on equipment. Keeping it above freezing can be bit of a guessing game with the thermostat issues I mention in my last post. The colder it gets outside the more I have to turn up the crappy thermostat to maintain the same temp inside.
 
Megar arc 5040dd said:
For metal working I am comfortable if it is 10 degrees. but for wood working with glues and finishes I like to have it at least 15 or better. I also want it always above freezing so I don't get rusting issues on equipment. Keeping it above freezing can be bit of a guessing game with the thermostat issues I mention in my last post. The colder it gets outside the more I have to turn up the crappy thermostat to maintain the same temp inside.
Click to expand...

Oh yes, didn't realize you were doing wood working, glue and finishes don't go on well at 5 degrees ! Some guys I know will keep all of that temperature sensitive stuff in a separate cabinet with an incandescent light bulb for heat, although I'm sure there is a better solution for a heat source these days

It does sound like you need to sort out that thermostat issue, that would be my first goal if I were you
 
Susquatch said:
In simple terms, you cannot add more heaters and meaningfully reduce cost. There are really only 3 ways to reduce cost. Add insulation, reduce your target temperatures, or use a lower cost heat source.
Click to expand...

The best potential to decrease heat loss of the typical rural SK structure is air sealing....

It is miraculous what a couple of dupont froth paks can do
 
Susquatch said:
Sounds like an easy fix. Thermostats are cheap.
Click to expand...
They are but this is my third or fourth one and they have all had this problem. From googling last winter I guess it is a common problem with electric thermostats. I am not sure if it being in an exterior wall plays a part as well. If anyone can help solve the thermostat problem I would be forever grateful.
 
Perhaps not, but as @TorontoBuilder already said, I bet you can improve sealing. Heat loss is mostly insulation and air leaks.

Regarding thermostats, you can always get a low current thermostat and wire it to a relay to control your heaters. I did mine as a simple Honeywell rotary thermostat and I rotated the housing to get better low temp control. Mine is two stage but you don't need that. If you look at the photo, it doesn't just look cockeyed, it actually IS COCKEYED! I did that deliberately to get a lower temperature range of control.

20241126_154409(0).jpg
 
I have done the same with the old thermostat I have in my garage for the gas heater. kept the bottom screw loose so I could tilt it.
 
You could also supplement the larger heater that you have with a smaller 1500W Electric infrared heater. Keep the average temperature of the shop lower but spot heat the area you are working in with the infrared.

Princess Auto has this on sale right now for $39.99
Screenshot 2024-11-26 at 14-00-35 1 500W Dual-Quartz-Tube Infrared Heater.png
 
Susquatch said:
it actually IS COCKEYED! I did that deliberately to get a lower temperature range of control.

View attachment 55004
Click to expand...
Huh, that is what I did as well. I collect the good mercury 'stats like that one.
Reading this had me thinking back to when I had a problem with the furnace short cycling. It is a 50kBTU hanging off the ceiling. One cold day I was welding inside and noticed the smoke was up at the ceiling and down to the 6ft mark, just above the thermostat. I watched the furnace come on and the smoke lowered down to the thermostat and off the furnace went.
I had a Hunter paddle fan laying around and I installed that. Set it on the very lowest speed. Problem solved, no more stratification, and the fan has been on since I built the place in 2009. The temp stays more even and the furnace is on/off less.
 
Megar arc 5040dd said:
They are but this is my third or fourth one. If anyone can help solve the thermostat problem I would be forever grateful.
Click to expand...
Why not get a gas/oil thermostat, or a mercury switch if possible in your area. Use the thermostat to activate a magnetic relay to handle the heavy current of the heater. Electric heater thermostats are a clumsy attempt to regulate heat.
EDIT
Here's an all in one unit, I remembered I use one of these to keep the root celler above the freeze temp. 40 amp 220volt
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top