Does Anyone Still Make The Real Swiss or German Multifix Tool Post? (not an offshore clone)

[p3bhambama]

I mentioned earlier of the versatility of the Multifix. It has 40 indexable positions through a 360° circle. Therefore each position is equal to 9 degrees.

Here, I needed to cut off a 1"OD hardened shaft. I didn't want all the mess with a cutoff wheel, and a hacksaw won't touch it. So onto the lathe and used a carbide cutoff tool. Easy peasy. But now to chamfer the end. I could have used a file; I could have attached a 45° chamfer tool, but I'd have to remove a tool from a tool holder and set the height; but since the cutoff tool is still attached, rotate it to the 5th position (5 x 9°=45°), and plunge cut. You can't do that with the Aloris type QCTP without loosening the bolt, rotate it to a measured 45°, and then reset to 90° after you chamfer.

On Adam's channel he explains how with pinning the tool post you can even cut the 9 degrees in half several times along with increasing the rigidity even further.

 

[thestelster]

On Adam's channel he explains how with pinning the tool post you can even cut the 9 degrees in half several times along with increasing the rigidity even further.

Yes, you can do that especially if you constantly use one particular angle. But I find that is too much of a bother for me. So for instance, you want to cut your threads by moving in at 29° on your compound. If you do that with the Multifix your tool won't be perpendicular to lathe axis. So set your compound to 29°, position your multifix to the 3rd position (3x9°=27°). So now you are 2° from being square. Put the 2° of these:

between you tool and it's holder. And you're good to go without having to remove the Multifix QCTP.

 

[Gunnar]

I've used multifix on several friends' lathes. I am a bit of a tool post junkie. I have 2 styles of 4 way, Dixon, an both flavors of Aloris style, clone and authentic.

I am interested in acquiring a European made multifix to directly compare it to my other posts.

my experience with multifix is that it isn't significantly better than the others, but is helpful in some situations. I am concerned about it's rigidity compared to the others.

my fave so far for adjustability and rigidity is Dixon, and for moving metal is 4way. Aloris is a compromise, and does everything okay, but not 'the best'...

As I have mentioned in my other posts I use a Multifix on my Super 7. My other tool post is a 70’s vintage Dixon type tool post. Mine have W stamps because they were made for Myford by Weston Engineering in the UK. I only got two holders when I bought the lathe. There is lacing visible on the tool post from being surface ground and was relatively well made. I bought some ebay Bison made holders and they did not fit well. I also found with the Dixon type that adjusting for centre height could be fussy because the clamping action would cam the holder up slightly. The Multifix drives the tool holder axially when clamped up and from measuring with my height gauge there is no change. I also personally find the Multifix more rigid and wonder if the complaints are from people who don’t install the hardened dowel? I do not hate the Dixon type but prefer the Multifix and have no interest in traditional 4 way posts. Again, I am a tiny lathe making medium tiny parts so possibly a poor cross section but I can’t sing the praises of the Multifix enough.

 

[Dabbler]

I also found with the Dixon type that adjusting for centre height could be fussy because the clamping action would cam the holder up slightly.

In real Dixons, and the Rapid version (italian made), there is an easy way to avoid this... You cam until the T nut engages the holder but doesn't prevent adjustment. This is on the flat part of the cam, and further tightening will not change the height, even by a 1/10th, at least on mine and one other I've used recently.

Two professional machinists I have talked to about multifix have had the clamping mechanism break in use. This is in a professional environment, where the cuts are deeper, and the likelihood of over-tightening the cam is greater.

I'd like nothing better than to try my deflection test on a real multifix, as doing it on an offshore clone is unfair, IMO.

 

[thestelster]

There is a caveat regarding the Multifix. It was designed to fit European lathes. European lathes have a solid compound with a bolt sticking up to attach the turret of the QCTP. They do not have a cut-out for a t-nut like on American type lathes. If you try to install the Multifix QCTP barrel on an American style lathe designed for a t-nut, without any modifications, there won't be sufficient contact. There are a number of YouTube videos on the subject, and I've documented it on my post.

The other feature is that the handle to loosen the clamping action for the tool holder should be turned clockwise (pull the handle towards you); and to tighten, counter clockwise (push the handle away from you).

 

[tesko]

...
Two professional machinists I have talked to about multifix have had the clamping mechanism break in use. This is in a professional environment, where the cuts are deeper, and the likelihood of over-tightening the cam is greater.

I'd like nothing better than to try my deflection test on a real multifix, as doing it on an offshore clone is unfair, IMO.

I ran my Type C on a nice big VDF (German) lathe for 10+ years, and the machine was 25+ years old when I started, never had any damage, breakage, or slippage. Not once.
1/4" DOC in turning and 5/16" DOC in facing (4140HTSR / 1045 / Cast Iron). Also regularly turned IHCP rod, though lower DOC, I could watch the ammeter climb for the motor and hear it bog down under cuts, and never had a toolpost issue.

There is a caveat regarding the Multifix. It was designed to fit European lathes. European lathes have a solid compound with a bolt sticking up to attach the turret of the QCTP. They do not have a cut-out for a t-nut like on American type lathes. If you try to install the Multifix QCTP barrel on an American style lathe designed for a t-nut, without any modifications, there won't be sufficient contact. There are a number of YouTube videos on the subject, and I've documented it on my post.

The other feature is that the handle to loosen the clamping action for the tool holder should be turned clockwise (pull the handle towards you); and to tighten, counter clockwise (push the handle away from you).

Your first point regarding the compound rest attachment is true. Important to consider when mounting to American/English machines.

The 2nd point is a "should" but honestly is not relevant (in my experience). I used to go in either direction as I had a habit of going opposite the direction of the cutting force. Always felt "right" to me. Never had an issue going either way.

 

[trevj]

See @thestelster's post above. You don't need a local supplier or dealer. I happen to know that he ordered direct from Germany.

Getting a clone probably means ordering from China or India. Kinda defeats the whole purpose of getting something like a multifix.

Or maybe not.

One of the well respected members on Popular Machinist Forum, bought and tried the Chinese clone, and tested it for repeatability, etc., and came away with the general attitude that one got more than one paid for, compared to price-to-value.

Personally, I like the Tripan system, fell in love with it when I first encountered it, as it is pretty easy to make a Tripan style tool post, and the tool holders are really pretty simple to make in bulk (ie: cut a dovetail in a bar as long as can fit on your mill, then cut off what you need for each toolholder!)

 

[trevj]

Why do people not like multi-fix? what bugs you? I briefly used one at SAIT while taking their intro lathe course. I liked it, seemed quick and efficient generally. It did seem to accumulate chips and require cleaning before changing tools. I did not like the 4 post on a lathe I use to own as it rotated unexpectedly when under load e.g. when parting. Maybe that was a poor 4 post? Operator error? I bought a BXA wedge type post and found it much better. I didn't like the price of the tool holders on the multi-fix but found it convenient. So curious why people don't like multi-fix.

My (not actual dislike, rather, preference) is to have a tool post that I do not need a wire EDM machine to make my own tool holders.

Would I like to have a genuine Multi-Fix, hells yes, do I want to pay the price of admission....? Not so much...

 

[thestelster]

The 2nd point is a "should" but honestly is not relevant (in my experience). I used to go in either direction as I had a habit of going opposite the direction of the cutting force. Always felt "right" to me. Never had an issue going either way.

Yeah, I'm not sure it makes a difference, but the following is a translated instruction from the AXA Multifix manual:

The clamping lever should always be tightened counterclockwise with a uniform pressure of approximately 3-5 Nm for type A, 8-10 Nm for type B, 10-12 Nm for type C, which is completely sufficient to clamp the change holder.

And, I do recall seeing in a YouTube video where the guy tested it in both directions, and he did find a slight difference, tighten in ccw was better.

 

[Susquatch]

1/4" DOC in turning and 5/16" DOC in facing (4140HTSR / 1045 / Cast Iron). Also regularly turned IHCP rod, though lower DOC, I could watch the ammeter climb for the motor and hear it bog down under cuts, and never had a toolpost issue.

Holy Crap! Did I say Holy Crap?

HOLY CRAP!!!

Just for Poops n Giggles what kind of feed rate and surface speed are we talking here? And how big is the lathe, the part, and the tool?

 

[tesko]

Holy Crap! Did I say Holy Crap?

HOLY CRAP!!!

Just for Poops n Giggles what kind of feed rate and surface speed are we talking here? And how big is the lathe, the part, and the tool?

I can't recall the model name of it, but it was a VDF (Boehringer) lathe. It was a bit of a unique spec with a long bed and a special order gearbox with 10 HP motor. Adding a few photos for reference, I used to repair and recondition forge rolls. The large piece of stock is 15" Ø, sitting on a 16" Ø chuck, it became a clutch dog for the drive of a (very) large alligator shear.
Feeds and speeds varied, not to be a smart aleck, but I could run it very aggressively in cast iron, and less so in 4140 HTSR. Usually 0.012"/rev - 0.021"/rev for roughing cuts.

 

[Susquatch]

Feeds and speeds varied, not to be a smart aleck, but I could run it very aggressively in cast iron, and less so in 4140 HTSR. Usually 0.012"/rev - 0.021"/rev for roughing cuts.

I'm sooooo glad I asked. With a 0.012 to 0.021 feed rate, 1/4" depth of cut isn't quite so big a HOLY CRAP. The chip load isn't nearly as high as my mind's eye dreamed up. Mind you, cutting 4140 doesn't make it easier.

 

[tesko]

I forgot to add, I ordered the Multi-fix package for my Chipmaster from:

New Quick Change Toolpost Sets

New 40 position quick change toolpst sets, Very good value quick change toolpost sets.

www.bellmachineryltd.com

I was able to have them add/swap toolholders for a fair price, nice to deal with.