Dividing head de-crustification

[RobinHood]

I'd love to find a light grease or spray lubricant that could be applied to internal or external parts that would last 20 years or so without becoming a problem of its own.

How about the LPS line of products? The #3 is the waxiest and stays around a long time. Quite expensive, but they work very well.

What is the Difference Between LPS 1®, LPS 2®, & LPS 3®

Exactly what is the chemical and performance difference between LPS® products 1, 2 and 3, and how are these used in industry?

www.itwprobrands.com

 

[RobinHood]

@trlvn isn’t it amazing what a lot of elbow grease and persuasion can do to bring a rusty tool back to life?

Well done on your DH find and revival from the dead.

 

[Proxule]

The #3 is the waxiest and stays around a long time.

I put that S**T on everything.
The underside gets a coat prior to the winter, every winter, I have also used lanolin cut with mineral spirits at 50/50 and achieved the same results.

Some folks use that fluidfilm stuff, And I suppose that's also a mixture similar to LPS 3 and or lanolin.
I bought my stash in bulk, BULK is the keyword here.

 

[CWret]

No Morse taper reamers in my arsenal..

FYI: too small for this project - but I have a MT1 reamer if needed for a future project

CW

 

[jorogi]

It is! Another sickness of mine is antique hand woodworking tools.

Craig

I guess I'll have to let my hands age a few more years to contract "sickness"

 

[Susquatch]

I guess I'll have to let my hands age a few more years to contract "sickness"

65 is the magic number for all sorts of such illnesses. You can get infected much earlier (42 is common) but by 65 the disease is in full bloom and there is no hope of recovery left. By 75 you don't care anymore. You don't remember what it was like not to be infected and just laugh hysterically at yourself spontaneously.

 

[ChazzC]

Count me among those who have one. Mine is prolly 50 years old. Well before they came in Chrome. Besides, if it did come in Chrome that would probably have fallen off 30 years ago.

Three tips for you.

1. Load it up against the opening direction before you hammer it. They don't work nearly as well if you don't.

2. Make sure you get one that comes with the 1/4 or 3/8 or 1/2 inch impact rated drive so you can use it with seized nuts too. Mine is 1/2 inch and the hex adapter for it is 5/16 not 1/4.

3. Buy a set of JIS (Japanese Industry Standard) impact bits for it. They are much better at conforming to Philips Head Screws and don't deform the screw as easily. Some brake disk retension screws (and many others) are actually JIS but you would never know looking at them. A test fit with the driver tip almost always tells the tale. The fit difference is amazing and more importantly, it works better too!

Mine is a big one with a flange like this one. Safer for one eyed guys with no depth perception....

Amazon.ca

Here is a set of JIS impact bits:

https://a.co/d/7imKHaR

I'm not sure the bits I highlighted actually fit that driver. Mine isn't available anymore. So I just picked ones that look similar. It might be best to get the shiny (LOL!) driver of your choice first and then get some impact rated JIS bits for it that fit it.

Sus, you forced me into this; my arsenal for stuck hardware (some old, some relatively new):

2lbs. & 3lbs. Columbian "Engineer's" Hammers (2# maybe 15 years old, 3# probably 40+); 50+ (maybe 54?) year-old Craftsman Impact Driver Set (for Real Men!); Milwaukee Impact-Rated 1/4" Hex Bits; HF 3/8" Impact Sockets; Bosch 1/4" Impact Driver; and Craftsman C3 1/2" Impact Wrench, with 1/2" – 3/8" Impact-Rated Adapter.

Now that the bragging is out of the way, I have to admit that I hadn't thought about JIS bits for these, but now I have (photos with U.S. links – I can view the .ca site, but the links don't seem to work):

https://a.co/d/1oEP4l0 (U.S. link: maybe shipped from the US to Canada, so cheaper in the U.S.?)

https://a.co/d/4VCQDLV (ca link, maybe I should wait for the U.S. price to come down – why are these cheaper in Canada? )

I hope you're happy!!


EDIT:

Even if @Susquatch isn’t happy about me buying more tools, I am: checked the Go-Fast Innovations website and their price is the same as Amazon.ca, including free shipping (so US$26.68 instead of US$39.99 (ok, I won’t get them Tuesday, but so what).

While poking around the Go-Fast site, I found this:



Then I checked Amazon U.S., and it was cheaper; as I always say, shop around.

 

[whydontu]

Sus, you forced me into this; my arsenal for stuck hardware (some old, some relatively new):

View attachment 48588
2lbs. & 3lbs. Columbian "Engineer's" Hammers (2# maybe 15 years old, 3# probably 40+); 50+ (maybe 54?) year-old Craftsman Impact Driver Set (for Real Men!); Milwaukee Impact-Rated 1/4" Hex Bits; HF 3/8" Impact Sockets; Bosch 1/4" Impact Driver; and Craftsman C3 1/2" Impact Wrench, with 1/2" – 3/8" Impact-Rated Adapter.

I have exactly the same Craftsman impact driver, at least 45 years old, and a 3# mallet of similar vintage. For sheer busting things ability, I also have a similar age 1/2” drive three-jaw chuck that fits either the impact driver, or a breaker bar.

Combine the three-jaw chuck with an ancient B&D electric impact wrench and a cold chisel and you too can break up concrete like a pro.

 

[trlvn]

@trlvn isn’t it amazing what a lot of elbow grease and persuasion can do to bring a rusty tool back to life?

Well done on your DH find and revival from the dead.

There is something about bringing an old tool back from the brink of death that I really enjoy. The idea that something that is already several decades old may be made ready for several more decades of service...I like that.

I chatted with a family member when I picked up the dividing head from the sale. The previous owner had worked for Massey Ferguson in Brantford so that gives at least a hint of the timeline. (The M-F plant in Brantford closed about 1988.)

Craig

 

[140mower]

There is something about bringing an old tool back from the brink of death that I really enjoy. The idea that something that is already several decades old may be made ready for several more decades of service...I like that.

.... Can't really add too much to that....... X 2.
I feel the same way about my vehicles as well.

 

[Susquatch]

Bosch 1/4" Impact Driver; and Craftsman C3 1/2" Impact Wrench, with 1/2" – 3/8" Impact-Rated Adapter.

Well, if we are gunna have a whose tool is bigger contest, it's prolly not really wise to pick on a big hairy farmer....

As far as impact tools go, I have a Dewalt 20V impact gun that can do 1200 ft-lbs........ If the nut doesn't give, it is quite capable of breaking the stud off clean - way better than a cutting torch! Beats the snott out of a big air gun. It's amazing!

 

[ChazzC]

Well, if we are gunna have a whose tool is bigger contest, it's prolly not really wise to pick on a big hairy farmer....

As far as impact tools go, I have a Dewalt 20V impact gun that can do 1200 ft-lbs........ If the nut doesn't give, it is quite capable of breaking the stud off clean - way better than a cutting torch! Beats the snott out of a big air gun. It's amazing!

I sold off most of my (HF & similar, although vintage so better than current base-level models) years ago and added battery versions as needed. Use the impact driver more than my Bosch 3/8” drill. While I don’t use the impact gun very often, it’s so much more convenient (and lighter the LiOn battery) than the pneumatic one it replaced - only 300 ft-lbs, but plenty for anything I’m likely to need (I know guys if I need more!).

 

[Dabbler]

Why not use a Morse taper reamer

No Morse taper reamers in my arsenal...yet!

Rust will dull a reamer FAST... Remove the rust by any means posssible (there are many) -- then using the reamer is a *great* idea! Most MT's I encounter are chowdered up, at least a little....

Great Get BTW!!! Nice progress!!

 

[CWret]

Rust will dull a reamer FAST...

Good tip. Makes perfect sense but an easy mistake.

 

[trlvn]

Rust will dull a reamer FAST... Remove the rust by any means posssible (there are many) -- then using the reamer is a *great* idea! Most MT's I encounter are chowdered up, at least a little....

Great Get BTW!!! Nice progress!!

Turns out that the spindle wasn't that bad inside. I got a set of 'tube brushes' from Princess Auto. A very few minutes with the 1" brass brush and some WD-40 had the inside of spindle pretty well cleaned up. There is one noticeable scratch (lengthwise) in the taper and another very minor one. BTW, it is a Morse Taper 4 (not 3 like I said earlier). Nonetheless, a MT4 drill sleeve engages solidly after being pushed in with one finger. It remains to be seen if I'll actually use the MT socket for work.

I guess the fact that mine has a Morse Taper socket suggests that it is a clone rather than an actual Brown & Sharpe product. A B&S #10 taper is very similar to an MT4 except that the B&S #10 is about an inch longer. My spindle is long enough to have taken the B&S taper but is clearly fitted for a MT.

In fact, I made good progress getting the guts of the dividing head reassembled last night. There are a couple of 'thrust' washers that have a tiny notch on the ID that must mate with an itty-bitty pin on the shaft. Things don't fit until you notice that! Filthy hands; no pics.

Unfortunately, today is a write-off shop-wise.

Craig

 

[Dusty]

@trlvn isn’t it amazing what a lot of elbow grease and persuasion can do to bring a rusty tool back to life?

Well done on your DH find and revival from the dead.

@trivn yes well done from me. I know the feeling when a project like yours comes together like a piece of fine art.

 

[Bandit]

Yes trying to clean up older machinery can be a bear, in my case that keyway cutter. Ended up using oven cleaner to remove paint? dried cutting fluid? old oil with shavings and chips petrified in it. Acetone, varasel, rubbing ack-ihual, beer, tequila wouldn't do anything, though the tequila made me feel better. Note, gluten free beer ain't worth drinking anyway,(most any I have tried). Spray down the oven cleaner with large amounts of Spray Nine followed by wipping down and a spray of WD 40 to stop any rust for the short term till reassembled with way oil etc. So far no rust to remove, a slow process, with a few repairs, and the usual head scratchers. Replace some bolts here and there, champers lots of holes, as there are ridges around diameter of, preventing proper seating of bolts and or nuts.
May try to make up a vertical head for it, from a drill press with a #3 morse taper spindle. Replace bearings to tapered?
We/I will see.

 

[trlvn]

I got my dividing head fully reassembled today--normal summer-time distrations have meant that progress has been slow.

I think it looks an awful lot better but, more importantly, everything functions smoothly. The main gear on the spindle has one small chip out of one of the gear teeth. I don't know if I did that or if a previous owner was responsible. Either way, it does not seem to affect function.

Maybe I'm getting dumber as I get older, but I found it unexpectedly complex to reassemble this thing. After a few tries, however, I had managed to stumble into the correct order. The Rucker video helps to show the necessary order.

Anyway, here is a couple more glamor shots:



Here it is in vertical mode with the chuck backplate screwed on:

BTW, I finally figured out that it really does have a Brown & Sharpe taper in the spindle (#10 size). With things clean, I can see that a Morse taper is not engaged at the small end.

I still need to do a couple of things. When cranking the handle, I have to keep the pin pulled out. It should have a way to keep the pin from snapping forward . I've got a plan and I'll post a follow-up if it works out.

Also need to mount a chuck. I have 2 candidates: a 6 inch 4-jaw and an 8 inch 3-jaw. I think I can re-use the chuck backing plate that came with the dividing head but it will have to be modified to register with the chosen chuck. To mount the back plate in the lathe, I'll need to make stub arbor (2.25 inch diameter, 8 threads per inch) which is a non-trivial side project.

The trouble is that I'm not sure that this is the dividing head for me. It is really too big for my RF-30 round column mill/drill. Once the chuck is mounted, it is going to take up over half the available length of the table. And the mill head has to be up near maximum height to clear the dividing head. In horizontal mode, the dividing head spindle centre is just over 5 inches off the table. Vertical mode leaves no room for a workpiece or tools. So I'm toying with the idea of selling this and getting a smaller unit.

Nonetheless, it has been a fun restoration project and I'm glad I was able to pull this old warrior back from the brink of death!

Craig

 

[CWret]

Looks like a very successful project, well done.

This project gave you some valuable experience from which I benefited. Thanks again for helping get my DH apart and diagnosing it’s problem. A fix will be a good project for the Myford.

 

[Upnorth]

How about the LPS line of products? The #3 is the waxiest and stays around a long time. Quite expensive, but they work very well.

View attachment 48578

What is the Difference Between LPS 1®, LPS 2®, & LPS 3®

Exactly what is the chemical and performance difference between LPS® products 1, 2 and 3, and how are these used in industry?

www.itwprobrands.com

A word of advice to anyone using LPS 2. It will eventually harden to something like varnish. Just be aware of that before you use it. I have seen it used in places where it made things difficult to take things apart later. LPS 3 is great for resisting corrosion. It remains kind of waxy. These products tend to be expensive in spray cans but reasonable when bought by the gallon. You can fill your own bottles with it.