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Ditron DRO Sale on Ali

TorontoBuilder said:
Price comparisons

I got 2 meters of 1um magnetic tape and three 1um magnetic read heads for $315USD when the CAD was not in the crapper as badly as now. This is for my chipmaster lathe and touch DRO

I got a four axis with rpm with D80 DRO and 4 magnetic scales for $830CAD, and a D80 two axis with rpm DRO and two scales for $498CAD
Click to expand...
Links for these? Thinking of just going with a Ditro kit for mill out the gate and play with DYI TouchDRO stuff down the road with my lathe.
 
Susquatch said:
I like Yuri a lot. He is a great guy to work with. I challenged him regarding the magnetic info he has. I also provided him with the results of my own testing. He was very open and willing to consider other input. At first he thought my scales were unicorns. But he did a lot of work subsequent to that and has retracted his opinion of magnetic scales. I don't think he has had time to fix that page yet. Or maybe he is doing extra due diligence.

At any rate, I can say that I duplicated his tests and got different results. He reviewed my results at length and accepted them. He has removed the earlier testing he did but hasn't updated his recommendation yet.

I strongly recommend magnetic over glass for reasons other than accuracy. When it comes to reliability and accuracy, it just doesn't matter. Glass and Magnetic are equals. Where magnetic shines is in ease of installation, and small size. If that matters, get magnetic. If not, get what you want.

I'm not sure I agree that the touch picks up where the Ditron leaves off. I've yet to see a feature on the Touch that doesn't exist on the others. It's easy to assume that if you compare to older stuff though. My experience is that Ditron is evolving quickly too. Both have WAAAAY more features than I need.
Click to expand...

Hi Sus I don't want to get in the middle of your discussion with Yuri about scales, the details are above my head but I would be remiss if I didn’t mention This Thread (31 Oct.) where Yuri says:

Short version -
  • Unless you absolutely must, don't use magnetic scales. Accuracy per dollar is much worse than glass scales.
  • For glass scales: Ditron/Aikron/Sino are basically the same scales, as long as you get them for the official distributors.. There is a TON of fakes and factory rejects floating around. "Cheaper" stuff is cheaper because of lack of QA (or it's just straight QA reject from the decent brands). 90% of the time this means that you can get a dead scale; 10% of the time the encoder strip will be damaged/scratched and the scale will have a dead spot. You can't get an "inaccurate" glass scale (at least to the extent that you can measure without 50K$ worth of equipment).
  • For magnetic scales: the best you can get for under $1000/scale is about +/-10um error over 1m (this includes Electronica/EMS, RLS, NeWall, and Mitutoyo). Stuff that you can buy for $200/scale will be much worse than this. 5um Chinese magnetic scales are universally complete crap; 1um scales are a bit better, but don't expect better than +/-10 um over 2mm (due to cyclic error) if you get super lucky.
  • If you absolutely must use magnetic scales (and care about accuracy), get Electronica/EMS full size scale (S2/Magna). If you absolutely must have a slim scale, get RLS LM10 or LM13.


WRT TDRO features, it's probably better to drill down into the manual for details, I'm certainly not using it to its full capability but the one feature I'm eagerly anticipating is the ability to import geometric data (coordinates) from a CAD file rather than entering by hand. Easier and 'way more reliable than my typing, LOL!

D :cool:
 
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Tecnico said:
Hi Sus I don't want to get in the middle of your discussion with Yuri about scales, the details are above my head but I would be remiss if I didn’t mention This Thread (31 Oct.) where Yuri says:

Short version -
  • Unless you absolutely must, don't use magnetic scales. Accuracy per dollar is much worse than glass scales.
  • For glass scales: Ditron/Aikron/Sino are basically the same scales, as long as you get them for the official distributors.. There is a TON of fakes and factory rejects floating around. "Cheaper" stuff is cheaper because of lack of QA (or it's just straight QA reject from the decent brands). 90% of the time this means that you can get a dead scale; 10% of the time the encoder strip will be damaged/scratched and the scale will have a dead spot. You can't get an "inaccurate" glass scale (at least to the extent that you can measure without 50K$ worth of equipment).
  • For magnetic scales: the best you can get for under $1000/scale is about +/-10um error over 1m (this includes Electronica/EMS, RLS, NeWall, and Mitutoyo). Stuff that you can buy for $200/scale will be much worse than this. 5um Chinese magnetic scales are universally complete crap; 1um scales are a bit better, but don't expect better than +/-10 um over 2mm (due to cyclic error) if you get super lucky.
  • If you absolutely must use magnetic scales (and care about accuracy), get Electronica/EMS full size scale (S2/Magna). If you absolutely must have a slim scale, get RLS LM10 or LM13.


WRT TDRO features, it's probably better to drill down into the manual for details, I'm certainly not using it to its full capability but the one feature I'm eagerly anticipating is the ability to import geometric data (coordinates) from a CAD file rather than entering by hand. Easier and 'way more reliable than my typing, LOL!

D :cool:
Click to expand...

Yuri must think we're all making pump parts to cool nuclear reactors... which BTW is what my brother used to make. Massive ones.

I challenge anyone to embed a glass scale on the underside of a cross slide.
 
Tecnico said:
Hi Sus I don't want to get in the middle of your discussion with Yuri about scales, the details are above my head but in This Thread (31 Oct.) Yuri says:
Click to expand...

Well, what can I say. That is definitely a more recent post than my discussions with him.

As I said before, he is a good guy and very knowledgeable. My testing didn't agree with his original position. I found nothing wrong with magnetic scales. And trust me, I did a very deep dive into the details.

Several other knowledgeable experts disagreed too. Even the manufacturers disagreed.

In my world, people are entitled to disagree without animosity. The peer review process exists for a reason. But at the end of the day, you still have to pick your poison. I don't hesitate to prefer and recommend magnetic. But I understand others who might not agree.

As Yurih says. He has no fat in this fire. He doesn't make or sell scales. But lots of other experts do and they stand behind them too. Even setting the Chinese folks aside, DRO Pros still promote and sell magnetic.

I really do like my magnetic scales. I don't think they were/are unicorns. I tested them extensively against Yurih's specific concerns and couldn't corroborate his findings - even after duplicating his methods. In my case, I also used various combinations of laboratory grade stacked gauge blocks and found magnetic scales to be within specs.

Last, but not least, how can anyone be sure that the equivalent glass scales made in China couldn't have equally or even more concerning results of a different kind? It's not like etching glass is an inherently more accurate process.

Anyways, I'm not picking an argument here, I am only standing behind my own test results, the recommendations of others, and the other inherent advantages of magnetic scales. I don't sell scales either.
 
OK guysm haven't gone thru all the replies but I'm looking at the Accusize DRO package : 2-Axis DRO Packages for Lathe Machines, Glass Scales (X, Y)
Basically because I see the cross slide is the Thin version (Ditron DC10-F i beleive) which I think will fit my CX706 lathe (10 x 22) with the read head between the saddle legs. On the other hand, there is this kit on AliExpress right now: 19 Languages 2 Axis LCD DRO Kit GCS909-2 Turning Lathe Milling Digital Readout & 2pcs 1U/5U 50-1000mm Linear Scale Grating Ruler
Accusize is at $680 and AliExpress is at $160.99.
I was thinking about getting the AliExpress unit and swap out the cross slide scale for a thin one.
What do you guys think?
 
lucsimoneau said:
OK guysm haven't gone thru all the replies but I'm looking at the Accusize DRO package : 2-Axis DRO Packages for Lathe Machines, Glass Scales (X, Y)
Basically because I see the cross slide is the Thin version (Ditron DC10-F i beleive) which I think will fit my CX706 lathe (10 x 22) with the read head between the saddle legs. On the other hand, there is this kit on AliExpress right now: 19 Languages 2 Axis LCD DRO Kit GCS909-2 Turning Lathe Milling Digital Readout & 2pcs 1U/5U 50-1000mm Linear Scale Grating Ruler
Accusize is at $680 and AliExpress is at $160.99.
I was thinking about getting the AliExpress unit and swap out the cross slide scale for a thin one.
What do you guys think?
Click to expand...

I think glass scales on a small lathe like the 10x22 is a serious constraint.

I'd use magnetic, and embed a magnetic tape on the underside of the cross slide, with the head mounted at the back of the cross slide.

And touch DRO.

There is a company selling read heads for 48 bucks each and 1 meter of tape for 58 bucks. You can mount right to the lathe castings
 
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