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Deal or Not New lathe

It kind of depends on which 14x40 you mean. Modern primarily carries these two in Calgary & access to others.
Grizzly is currently showing 5 different models in this size.
 

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Buying from a dealer - a very reasonable option. I bought my Enterprise lathe from Modern Tool (January 1983), they took care of a number of details so everything went smoothly. Sure, I paid full price, but I had a good running, well dressed machine that has s
 
Tom Kitta said:
It is nothing special of a deal - compare to https://www.kmstools.com/king-industrial-12-x-36-metal-lathe-with-stand-12933
For 2000 extra (including tax) you get:
DRO about 250 value plus install
Bit bigger motor at 2hp
bit bigger range at 14x40 vs 12x36
coolant pump
faster spindle at 2000 rpm vs. 1500 rpm
more of a machine at almost 1/2 more weight.

You loose about $150 in tooling. And no CSA approval - through for private use its of little consequence.

Overall if you need 14x40 for increased size and rigidity it may be worth the $2000 and I think $2000 is about right price for a bit extra - but nothing to say a "deal" - just regular price. I would say it was a deal at maybe 5900. For under a $1000 you would get a lot of goodies over King.
Click to expand...

Thanks Tom I appreciate your comments that's why I registered on this site. I get to gain/learn from the collective knowledge base.
True it's not a great deal as compared to smaller sized machines. but for King Model; KC-1440ml-2/km-054 there neck and neck spec wise other than YUWE doesn't mention a faceplate or a 4 jaw which isn't an issue at present I wouldn't buy a taper attachment I prefer using a boring head in the tailstock. the swing over the gap is 20' according to the specs King doesn't offer a gap bed ,last quote king cost more. by $3k which I consider too much for a 8"four jaw, taper attachment and CSA approval. IMHO
 
I didn't buy a taper attachment on my (97 vintage Taiwan) King 14x40 & very much regret it. At the time I was naive & assumed I could just buy the rear slider bar assembly & bolt it on when the time came. But there is typically more to it than that (depending on the lathe). For majority of machines in this class, it involves an entirely different (telescoping) leadscrew, nut & disengagement configuration. So to 'upgrade' my lathe requires a bunch more parts vs having it configured with taper attachment from the get-go. It was a bad move on my part because these parts are now both rare & expensive. Many of the current lathes come standard with taper attachment which is a good thing IMO.

Yes, you can displace your tailstock over in the classic offset method. But every time you do this, you have go back to square 1 to re-establish TS / spindle center again which is very important for most things we do - drilling, reaming, tapping etc. Even with alignment bar & DTI it takes some time to get it perfect again, but also a function of the lathe. I prefer to zero the TS & leave it there for as long as possible, but personal opinion. Also the TS offset method only sets an angle for that particular length of stock. If you insert a bar of slightly different length, the resultant taper angle will be different & so you are back to re-establishing taper angle. Whereas a taper attachment preserves an angle & you can make multiple parts with identical taper regardless of length. There are other pros & cons, but these are the main ones.
 
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+1 on taper attachment. didn't think I'd use it, but sure handy when I need it -- wouldn't want to retro fit it later. The integration with cross-slide makes tapers a measure-n-go event -- one clamp to tighten.
 
Just for price comparison the Modern C0636 comes with DRO, 3 and 4 jaw chucks, faceplate, taper attachment, and a piston style quick change tool post. Plus shipping to your door is included.







 
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Do you guys know how that Apron stop ACTUALLY works? Because I don’t.

Here is my suspicion:
If the clutch is integral to the carriage, the apron stops because the clutch slips, not because the feed actually disengages. Just looking at that metal plate with the slots in it, it sure does not seem to have any connection to any feed levers and such.

Why am I so suspicious? The feed engagement mechanism needs to be of different design in order to facilitate an auto feed trip. You can’t very well use straight spur gears for the engagement/disengagement as they may not release under load. I suppose the clutch will slip, and no damage is done.

The way Colchester does it (yes, it also has a clutch to protect the feed shaft), they use a worm gear/wheel combo with over center springs and a trip pin which is activated by the stop. The worm gear/wheel combo can easily be disengaged under the heaviest of loads. It is like night and day compared to say the spur gear set-up on the Standard Moderns. Using the SMs, I have adopted the habit of “helping” the carriage feed with the hand wheel as I am approaching the stop. Feel for the feed lever pressure to “unload”, and disengage. It’s like driving a standard gear box without synchromesh - you have to feel for the gears to mesh, otherwise it sounds like a rock crusher. (Sorry I just dated myself with that gearbox shifting comment... “if you can’t find them, grind them”).

Anyway, I am just curious how they actually do the stop. I have seen other manufacturers advertise the same feature...
 
I'm wondering the same Rudy. We were chatting about powerfeeding & clutch on the other post. And why I was saying my own lathe ball/detent clutch is more primitive & thus maybe only for crash protection vs active machining stop. The BasementShop video shows the PM in action (Part 5 around 19:00) , so that much we know. Whether it has another independent disengagement for crash protection beyond that or the clutch is entirely responsible to provide that would be interesting to know. Maybe there is a decent parts diagram out there to decipher.
 
John Conroy said:
Just for price comparison the Modern C0636 comes with DRO, 3 and 4 jaw chucks, faceplate, taper attachment, and a piston style quick change tool post. Plus shipping to your door is included.







Click to expand...
Ya gotta like that feeling I have time to look around can't get concrete in the shop till spring. They are all about the same when they're running just little differences . I think if a DNA test could to be done on them all it would be revealing. Ha! did you check on it before going to work?
 
It looks like a fine deal. You can probably coeerce some tooling for no cost if you seem serious.

On the clutch issue: I dimly remember someone showing me the mechanism over 30 years ago. The rod disengages a dog clutch at the left hand side of the QCGB. Of course, it could easily be a different design, but everybody steals from everybody, so it might be the same mechanism.

One last point: at 1500 lbs it is about the same rigidity as Modern's 636, and a fine machine, but not as rigid as the heavy 1440s out there.
 
RobinHood said:
Do you guys know how that Apron stop ACTUALLY works? Because I don’t.

Here is my suspicion:
If the clutch is integral to the carriage, the apron stops because the clutch slips, not because the feed actually disengages. Just looking at that metal plate with the slots in it, it sure does not seem to have any connection to any feed levers and such.

Why am I so suspicious? The feed engagement mechanism needs to be of different design in order to facilitate an auto feed trip. You can’t very well use straight spur gears for the engagement/disengagement as they may not release under load. I suppose the clutch will slip, and no damage is done.

The way Colchester does it (yes, it also has a clutch to protect the feed shaft), they use a worm gear/wheel combo with over center springs and a trip pin which is activated by the stop. The worm gear/wheel combo can easily be disengaged under the heaviest of loads. It is like night and day compared to say the spur gear set-up on the Standard Moderns. Using the SMs, I have adopted the habit of “helping” the carriage feed with the hand wheel as I am approaching the stop. Feel for the feed lever pressure to “unload”, and disengage. It’s like driving a standard gear box without synchromesh - you have to feel for the gears to mesh, otherwise it sounds like a rock crusher. (Sorry I just dated myself with that gearbox shifting comment... “if you can’t find them, grind them”).

Anyway, I am just curious how they actually do the stop. I have seen other manufacturers advertise the same feature...
Click to expand...


It looks to me like it has a dog clutch at the left end of the feed rod

TL clutch.jpeg
page 31.jpeg
 
Swharfin' said:
Ya gotta like that feeling I have time to look around can't get concrete in the shop till spring. They are all about the same when they're running just little differences . I think if a DNA test could to be done on them all it would be revealing. Ha! did you check on it before going to work?
Click to expand...

Yeah I gave it a good going over when I got it. Most of that info was posted in this thread.

https://canadianhobbymetalworkers.c...s-or-a-pm1440hd-from-precision-matthews.1229/
 
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