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Cast iron weights from elevator shaft - AND then vehicle lug nut issues
- Thread starter Tom O
- Start date
Former Member
Guest
A few months ago I did all my brakes on my 2014 F150 all my parts came from Ford F&R pads (rear drum park brake shoes), 2 parking cables, front and rear disks about $950 in parts (I did the work). Consider that I got 120,000km not bad.
I wasn't very clear there. I meant make an arbor to mount the rotor in the lathe. Because your chuck probably won't open to 13". I think Tecnico explained it better. So if you do that then the question is there enough clearance for the rotor or are the ways too close? Somebody said use the inside jaws on the 4 jaw chuck - I like that. No machining of an arbor required.
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What the hell is Ford thinking? That's crap. Can you buy regular solid steel wheel nuts? Imagine trying to get those bolts off on the side of the highway in the dark. Tom O why don't you start a class action lawsuit. I was reading about this and apparently Ford says don't use power wrenches on the nuts as this starts the rust. Ever seen a tire shop or dealer NOT use power wrenches?
I went through the same thing, when Ford Service refused to rotate the tires on my F150 unless I replaced all the lug nuts ($300 worth of them). I asked if the replacements were any different/better.... the answer was NO
Rauce
Ultra Member
Two of the machinists I used to work with kept two sets of rotors for their vehicles. When one set needed re surfacing they would swap them out, bead blast and turn them on an arbor at work.
Chicken lights
Forum Pony Express Driver
Dodge was the worst for awhile, the worst part about them is if they’re on an aluminum rim. Trying to save the rim or even hub cap meant not using much heat. They make a lug nut removal set that works on wheel lock nuts as well as stripped lug nuts
Ah.... I see now. I had hoped you had some magical way of increasing the throw of the lathe. I have a removable gap on mine, but I am not EVER removing it. If I ever need more throw, I'll take the job elsewhere.
Assuming it fits your lathes throw, holding a brake disk in a chuck is no big deal. Those that have an open hub, can be held on the outside of the jaws from the inside of the hub. You can even use a 3 jaw. Unless it shakes too much, it doesn't need to be centered perfectly. It just needs to be perfectly planar - ie square.
Besides having enough throw, the other issue is getting a cutting edge onto the back side of the disc. Both sides should be cut in the same setup to ensure the thickness has no variation or you will think your car/truck is having sex with a moose on the road.
Rauce
Ultra Member
The way the guys I used to work with did it was with an arbor between centers. That way they could take it out and move the carriage to the other side without having to mess around to get the second cut parallel. This way you can do it on a lathe that’s just big enough to swing the rotor over the ways and not the cross slide.
BMW Rider
Super User
Many modern vehicle brake rotors do not have enough material to allow successful resurfacing. Even if you can get them smoothed up within the minimum thickness limit, any amount of wear will likely have them below that. Additionally, often the loss of thickness can result in excess heating and result in them warping anyway.
Nothing new, GM wheel nuts were like that back in the 70s and 80s. Impact guns are very destructive to those kind of lug nuts particularly when the shop uses a well worn or loose fitting socket. Its the hammering action of the impact that damages those lug nuts, it just beats the tin shell to death. FWIW, lug nuts of any sort should never be installed with an impact to tighten them. That usually leads to over tightening which damages the wheel, the lug nuts and studs and can cause warping of the brake rotors. Often when someone loses a wheel on the road, it's not that the lugs were under tightened, they were actually over tightened to the point of failure. Run the nuts down lightly and tighten with a torque wrench - it's the only correct way.
@BMW Rider is not correct, the loss of wheel studs is most commonly because someone did not have the nuts re-torqued after after some time of driving since the wheels were removed, over torqued studs do fail....but that's more the exception than the rule
Wheels need to be re-torqued after some period of driving after a wheel removal as everything settles (rotor to hub, wheel to rotor, lug taper to wheel seat, etc) the torque on the wheel studs can decrease....decreasing preload on the studs....the lack of preload on a bolt dramatically increases the dynamic load the bolt see's....bolt fails eventually...increasing the loading on the remaining bolts...you get the idea
there are a few YouTube videos on this done by engineers if you want to check up on it
This is the reason many shops have you sign a waiver after wheel mounting that says you must return in 50/100 whattever km to have the wheels re torqued free of charge
However...I agree...ugga dugga's are not the way to install wheels...zip them on (no impacts) but then they should be torqued with a torque wrench....overtorqued studs do fail, but it's far less common
Moral of the story...always re-torqued your wheel nuts
Wheels need to be re-torqued after some period of driving after a wheel removal as everything settles (rotor to hub, wheel to rotor, lug taper to wheel seat, etc) the torque on the wheel studs can decrease....decreasing preload on the studs....the lack of preload on a bolt dramatically increases the dynamic load the bolt see's....bolt fails eventually...increasing the loading on the remaining bolts...you get the idea
there are a few YouTube videos on this done by engineers if you want to check up on it
This is the reason many shops have you sign a waiver after wheel mounting that says you must return in 50/100 whattever km to have the wheels re torqued free of charge
However...I agree...ugga dugga's are not the way to install wheels...zip them on (no impacts) but then they should be torqued with a torque wrench....overtorqued studs do fail, but it's far less common
Moral of the story...always re-torqued your wheel nuts
Chicken lights
Forum Pony Express Driver
You guys are both missing out on torque sticks, most shops zip wheels on with them. Then either torque to spec or just have faith in the torque stick. I have a universal 1/2” one that’s 100 ft pounds, I’ll use an impact gun to rattle them tight then torque to 12-140 whatever the spec is on my own vehicles. It’s nice because I can use any socket on it, for multiple trucks
I think the biggest downfall of the two piece design nut is the rims not being taken off very often. The salt gets in between the two parts, corrosion builds, then the outer case swells. Instead of a 19mm socket you often had to smash on a 20 or 21mm (they were all different sizes just using a common size)
I think the biggest downfall of the two piece design nut is the rims not being taken off very often. The salt gets in between the two parts, corrosion builds, then the outer case swells. Instead of a 19mm socket you often had to smash on a 20 or 21mm (they were all different sizes just using a common size)
BMW Rider
Super User
I've always used a torque wrench to tighten wheel nuts and on rechecking them have never had one be loose and need more torque. Overtightening deforms the wheel and nut conical surfaces and can stretch the studs so that they they end up loosening later due to the loss of tensile strength in the stud. Sometimes the stud fails outright breaking off due to stress fractures.
Not missing out on those torque sticks either - just don't trust them. I do trust my properly calibrated torque wrench.
Not missing out on those torque sticks either - just don't trust them. I do trust my properly calibrated torque wrench.
I don't agree. But it's a very common belief and the real explanation is a bit hard to believe. 9 times out of ten they were either under tightened from the git go or some dirt or rust got between the wheel and hub which then disintegrates after a short drive and the torque drops off. If the nuts are not retorqued, they don't hit their design stress target and start stress cycling outside their design stress limits. This results in a fatigue failure of the stud. The broken stud looks like it was over torqued, but in fact it was under torqued.
That's why it should be standard practice to retorque wheel nuts after a short drive and then again until they stop losing torque.
I'm not against using an airgun to get em close, but unless the gun has a torque setting they should be brought to full torque using a torque wrench.
Agreed completely. The 1 in ten I mentioned above is the result of using an airgun or a Johnson bar that is waaaay too big for the nut.
..oorrrrrrrrrrr.....you re-torque them with an impact gun....every week....no torque stick or torque limiting device....I knew a guy that did this for a year after getting a work truck, despite several of us telling him not a good idea, kind of a stubborn "what do you young guys know" type, yea, lost both sets of duallys on the highway one morning
Oh yes those things, slipped my mind, probabaly because I don't own a set, it's not that I don't trust them, I just don't remove wheels often enough to warrant it, probabaly couldn't find them when I needed them anyhow, lol
i bought a set of torque sticks, tried one on a vehicle and it never brought the nut up to specs. Never used one since. Also one thing you guys haven't mentioned yet is the issue of corrosion between the rim and rotor mounting face , esp. with Al rims. sand 'em off!
While we are on the subject of changing wheels, here are two tools everybody who drives a vehicle should have.
The first is easy to buy. I keep a kit in every vehicle I own as well as in the shop. The kits in a box are perfect.
LEXIVON 1/2-Inch Impact Socket Set, 6 Total Lug Nut Size | Innovative Flip Socket Design Cover Most Commonly Inch & Metric Used Sizes | Cr-Mo Steel = Fully Impact Grade (LX-111) https://a.co/d/hK3hxUB
There are lots of alternatives. Can you say handy? Handy handy handy! Belongs in your car repair kit. Especially useful when you don't know the nut size on your daughter-in-law's car!
Here is another one. Some vehicles already come with this one, but most don't. If your vehicle wheels have removable studs instead of nuts, this kit clobbers how easy it is to mount a heavy tire and wheel on the wheel hub. You just screw one of these into the top hole and slide the wheel onto it. Then you can install the other studs and then remove the alignment stud. I use it to remove the wheel too so it doesn't come off and splash mud in my face..... Anyone who has ever changed a tire on the side of the road knows the drill....
If you have a lathe, these are also easy to make for yourself.
OEMTOOLS Wheel Stud Alignment KIT, Multi, One Size, 24233 https://a.co/d/9sBWCaL
The first is easy to buy. I keep a kit in every vehicle I own as well as in the shop. The kits in a box are perfect.
LEXIVON 1/2-Inch Impact Socket Set, 6 Total Lug Nut Size | Innovative Flip Socket Design Cover Most Commonly Inch & Metric Used Sizes | Cr-Mo Steel = Fully Impact Grade (LX-111) https://a.co/d/hK3hxUB
There are lots of alternatives. Can you say handy? Handy handy handy! Belongs in your car repair kit. Especially useful when you don't know the nut size on your daughter-in-law's car!
Here is another one. Some vehicles already come with this one, but most don't. If your vehicle wheels have removable studs instead of nuts, this kit clobbers how easy it is to mount a heavy tire and wheel on the wheel hub. You just screw one of these into the top hole and slide the wheel onto it. Then you can install the other studs and then remove the alignment stud. I use it to remove the wheel too so it doesn't come off and splash mud in my face..... Anyone who has ever changed a tire on the side of the road knows the drill....
If you have a lathe, these are also easy to make for yourself.
OEMTOOLS Wheel Stud Alignment KIT, Multi, One Size, 24233 https://a.co/d/9sBWCaL
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