Carbide shims/anvils

[Susquatch]

Quick question:

Are all shims, anvils, and screws common for a given insert size regardless of manufacturer or are they specific to each manufacturer's insert and tool holder?

I have some Ali tools that I really like so far, but I can't figure out where to get replacement anvils and screws.

Is there a good place to get such things?

 

[PeterT]

I can only speak to the more common inserts. Here s CCMT cutting insert just as example. The screw dimensions are defined by the seat dimensions which are typically different to common fasteners in their head & OAL. The threads are typically common but usually fine pitch metric. The inexpensive replacement screws I have purchased work perfectly fine. I thought they would be tunacanium but are ok. Some may have a slightly different Torx size than others for the same shank size, but of no consequence. Now when you get it into the higher end inserts, I have heard they may have more unique or even proprietary sizes. Whether they are engineered for a reason or just a way to channel kidnapping revenue I don't know (I don't have any).

Anvils is an interesting subject. Usually associated with threading but not always. I haven't seen many anvils in the clones which is suspicious. Because if you look in the catalogs they are cloning (or sometimes independently marketing on the sly I'm led to believe) the REAL ones often have a table of anvil angles. Carmex is one reference. Some folks have suggested anvils is a minor tweaking that only a production machine could tell the difference. Others have said the cloners bake an average angle & anvil-less seat height into the $10 hobby shank & call it a day. I don't have a real Carmex to compare so cant say. They perform to my level satisfaction so I guess I'm similarly lazy to investigate much further.

I try to buy spare screws from the same vendor as the hardware just to have them. They have been very inexpensive.

 

[Susquatch]

I try to buy spare screws from the same vendor as the hardware just to have them. They have been very inexpensive.

That's what kind of prompted this thread. I bought a number of Ali tools that came with Anvils and I love them. They work extremely well. It's hard to justify the Carmex and other premium brand prices. I know they are prolly better but 6x better? Unlikely.

Then I reached out to Ali to get spare parts like screws and shims. Not happening. So maybe they were not that good a deal after all. I might have to buy spare tools just for the parts! Still cheaper than Carmex Et al.

That got me wondering what others do.

 

[PeterT]

My experience with Ali is hit & miss, but generally satisfied. I would be a lot poorer & less tooled up without them. It can take a longtime to find certain things, sometimes a language issue, sometimes just disorganized. You search for something in a store & its not there. You click around randomly & there it is, how odd. I try to stick to what appear to be machining-centric shops. The quality & value has been pretty good. Sometimes the same seller will be on Ebay & strangely different prices. I have noticed price creep & shipping increases past year though. Then I hop on KBC or Travers & that usually sobers a guy pretty fast.

 

[Susquatch]

Then I hop on KBC or Travers & that usually sobers a guy pretty fast.

Almost everything except income is doing price creep recently.

If you think KBC and Travers are sobering, try Sandvik direct. I spec'd out a few simple WNMG tools I wanted, priced it out, and promptly went into full cardiac arrest. Amazon is WAAAAY better and Ali makes Amazon look outrageous.

I went with Amazon simply because it is so easy to return stuff if I don't like it and I was leery of the quality given the price difference. At least if my quality fears are realized, it's a simple return for a full refund.

They have since arrived, and my fears were groundless. The stuff is amazing. I am REALLY impressed. So much so that I bought SS & Al inserts with various nose sizes and I'm now buying spare parts. Hence this thread.

I fully expect the inserts won't last as long as the Sandvik would but at the price difference, I really don't care. I'm not a production facility and they cut beautiful on everything I've tried - even old bolts. Last but not least, the inserts used with shims are double sided so the Trigon inserts give me 6 points to use as they wear.

Ya, provided I can find shims and screws, I'm a happy happy camper.

 

[Aliva]

Aliexpress insert shims.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003075747407.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.25.7a141240EFlxey&algo_pvid=79e03d06-d9f5-4446-bb86-39db97433eda&algo_exp_id=79e03d06-d9f5-4446-bb86-39db97433eda-12&pdp_npi=4%40dis%21USD%213.00%212.04%21%21%213.00%212.04%21%402101c71a17061039434303180e8891%2112000023903645733%21sea%21CA%211933806296%21&curPageLogUid=3REAU0Awvi3z&utparam-url=scene%3Asearch%7Cquery_from%3A

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000561673686.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.180.24601802jzzLEo

 

[Aliva]

one more Ali page

https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-insert-shim.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.auto_suggest.1.1bf39fcfDZcExQ

 

[Susquatch]

Aliexpress insert shims.

Your post gets right to the heart of my question Aliva.

Those shims fit what tools and what inserts?

My insert journey began with one of those multi tool sets w/o shims. The set was pure crap and one of the things I tell new lathe users now is to avoid the temptation to buy one of those sets. Frankly, I only learned 2 things from my Grizzly set. 1. The tools are pure junk. 2. The set is useless because I only really used the Wxxx tool. The rest gathered dust. Buy one or two good tools and forget the set.

Anyway, I digress. Your link is to Txxx insert shims. But are they universal? Will they fit my own Txxx tools and inserts? Do they fit ALL Txxx tools and inserts? And how do I find out?

There are lots of charts out there that give the details of various inserts. But they don't give the shims and screws required for them!

Although the cost is scary, at least Sandvik tells you what insert shims and screws to use to go with them. With a few exceptions, Ali, Amazon, and even KBC don't usually do that.

Edit - I forgot to thank you for the links @Aliva. I have bookmarked them pending a better understanding of what I need.

 

[Hacker]

I was in the same spot as you when I bought my lathe. I did some digging around on Alibaba and my thought process was to find a full line supplier of tooling. I found Sant Tools https://en.hnsant.com/ I have been pretty happy with the ones I have bought and I also purchased extra shims and torx screws when I bought the holders. They are still on Alibaba/Express. I have acquired some Sandvik and Kennametal over the years and to me there is no discernible difference, other then the finish.
I have been buying from Cutting Tool Pickers the last while for the Sandvik/Kennametal holders https://cuttingtoolpickers.com/ They are in Ontario. Their prices are not too bad and if you called them they might be able to help.

 

[Aliva]

Does this help?

 

[Susquatch]

Does this help?

Yes. Now I know they are definitely NOT universal. Crap!

I got a reply from the Amazon Store and it looks like they will look after me. It's a good outcome but it would be better if such things were somewhat more universal. As it is, it looks like the inserts are, but the tool parts are specific to the tool manufacturer not the insert.

 

[Susquatch]

Update - The Ziming-1 store on Amazon has been fantastic to me.

They very patiently provided parts breakout drawings like the ones @Aliva provided but for the specific tools I purchased. I told them what parts I wanted as well as the quantity and they created a private custom link on Amazon Canada just for me and this purchase with free shipping. I don't have the stuff yet, but I anticipate that they will be just fine. I got everything from spare screws to clamps and anvils.

I can also say that the tools and the inserts I purchased from them are perfect. I also got inserts for Aluminium as well as some nose size variations. They all cut beautifully and the fit and finish of the tool is really good too. This coming from a HSS fanboy.

Ali might be a little cheaper, but it's very hard to beat the convenience of being able to order from Amazon with free shipping and free returns. That free returns is hard to appreciate till the need arises and then it's worth its weight in gold. It makes the risk of buying unknown quality go away.

Here is the 3 tool 5/8 set with 30 inserts (10 for each tool) that I bought.

https://a.co/d/8g8MUfG

I am particularly fond of the Trigon WNMG Tool. It uses the much bigger 3/8" six usable corner inserts. This 3 tool set is also the set I purchased the spare parts for.

I am planning to try a threading tool next.

Highly recommended.

 

[Hacker]

I with with you on paying a bit extra for a product if you can return.

Had a look at their store front, lots to choose from and prices seem pretty reasonable. I wonder who makes their inserts?

 

[Susquatch]

I with with you on paying a bit extra for a product if you can return.

Had a look at their store front, lots to choose from and prices seem pretty reasonable. I wonder who makes their inserts?

The ones I have that came with my tools were ASZLBYM. They are widely available separately on Amazon.

I have quite a few different inserts by ASZLBYM. I have no complaints so far. They seem a fair bit better than what I have gotten previously from Ali. The package is well marked with the application, the grade, and the usage recommendations (feeds N speeds). When I used them within their recommended windows, they worked quite well.

I would guess they are not as Good as Sandvik or Mitsubishi or or or. They will probably wear and/or break faster. But I am not a production operation. At a 10th of the cost, I'll happily swap inserts or just flip them as they wear out.

 

[Hacker]

What I found with the Ali/non brand inserts was I wasn't getting the finish that I wanted. I think I will give the parting inserts a try.
Thanks for sharing this.

 

[Susquatch]

What I found with the Ali/non brand inserts was I wasn't getting the finish that I wanted. I think I will give the parting inserts a try.
Thanks for sharing this.

My finish has been quite good. But I don't have enough stock to test everything. Time will tell as the jobs arise.

I should also add that the inserts for aluminium have been great on steel! I don't really do a lot of lathe work on aluminium. But the sharpness of the inserts for aluminium works great for light passes on steel. I also got some larger nose radiuses for better finish too. All in all, I'm VERY IMPRESSED.

Your question also makes me wonder how inserts for aluminium might perform parting steel........ This BEGS TO BE TRIED!

 

[Susquatch]

@Hacker

Here is the info on the back of a pack of ASZLBYM Inserts.



These are CNMG bought for another tool, but my favorites are WNMG.

Not all ASZLBYM Inserts have both metric and imperial feeds and speeds, but most do. Similarly, these are not marked P M & K. But it's rather obvious looking at the details that that's what they are. Most are marked.

 

[Hacker]

It would probably work fine. I suspect aluminum inserts have a sharper cutting edge. I have used steel inserts on aluminum when finish is not important and taking cuts <1mm seems to work fine. I remove the aluminum inserts what I have finished as I figured that it would shorten the life of the insert if I used it on steel.

I was looking through the parting inserts and noticed that one of the boxes was marked Korloy. If they are not knock offs then they are pretty decent.

 

[Susquatch]

I suspect aluminum inserts have a sharper cutting edge.

Yes they do. It's obvious looking at them with one old eye and a magnifying glass only magnifies the difference.

 

[MrWhoopee]

My experience with laydown threading inserts is yes, the shims/anvils/seats are standardized.