Cambridge - machinist newb

[ThirtyOneDriver]

This image seems to indicate the tool is too low???

Is it too high or too low?

It's actually too low in that picture... I didn't expect to see that before I threw it together for the photo, hence I think your push for the photo may have opened up a better solution than I originally had planned.

 

[deleted_user]

That's my feeling as well, get the tooling that fits the machine especially if you plan on keeping the lathe for a while. Talk to Accusize and explain that you bought the QCTP based on the swing of the lathe and see what they will do about exchanging for a AXA tool post. With the BXA you little to no wiggle room as to what size tooling you can use. You could go down to .375 tooling then you would be giving up some rigidity, boring bars may be an issue as well. The 13 inch swing would normally dictate the BXA but different machines have different needs.
Oh,,,, and another welcome from Vancouver Island.

I bought my QCTP from accusize as well as a lot of other tooling. I have found accusize to be good to deal with, but then I've always dealt with them in person. I too would ask them to exchange the tool post.

 

[YotaBota]

The parting tool is another piece to look at, I checked mine and it's contact point can be quite a bit higher than cutting tool depending on how far the blade is sticking out.
I have bought three Accusize QCTP's, OXA, AXA and now the BXA and have nothing but good things to say for them.

 

[ThirtyOneDriver]

Yep, totally... Like this:

This is "genius" - I can take what he did there and run w/ it... as I learn more I can go back and help myself out by performing the small detail operations (slots in the bottom of the QCTP that matches up w/ the 'springed' locator pin, etc.).

Thanks a ton guys for paying attention, remembering what reference material that could help me, and then sharing it - extremely more helpful than I ever imagined I would get from a 'forum'.

I haven't used the t-slot cutter or the dove tail cutter that I picked up to for the mod... I think those were >$200 at a local supplier so that's appreciated.

I'm hoping the BXA will still work fine - @YotaBota you have a great suggestion... I was able to get 15% off that order so I'd really like to avoid having that conversation if possible. Remember that your first order from Accusize is 10% off if you sign up for their newsletter or whatever the ad is... I'm glad I contacted them by phone before my order; they volunteered the info on how to go about getting the discount.

 

[ThirtyOneDriver]

@YotaBota - agreed on the parting tool - I've already run into that w/ the current setup. With the kits/tools I bought I have three different versions... I think the one w/ the large blade (see pic) will work.



I did also end up w/ 3/8" tooling when I bought the machine, so I still do have that versatility that you're talking about (pg. 1).

 

[YotaBota]

That's the same parting tool as mine, I'm using a 3/32 x 11/16 x 5" blade.
Have you tried the boring bars to see how well or if they center?
If you stay with the BXA all your tooling will be lower limit of adjustment, there will be no wiggle room.
Just my .02 cents but I think you would be better off with the AXA for that machine.

 

[YYCHM]

@YotaBota are all of his tool holders compatible if he just exchanges the tool post?

 

[deleted_user]

@YotaBota are all of his tool holders compatible if he just exchanges the tool post?

IIRC when I was shopping for a QCTP and tool holders the dovetail is different. I accidentally got one holder that did not fit my post and had to exchange it

 

[YYCHM]

IIRC when I was shopping for a QCTP and tool holders the dovetail is different. I accidentally got one holder that did not fit my post and had to exchange it

Ya, I seem to remember @Dabbler telling me that AXA, BXA, CXA etc refers to the dovetail angle. So he would have to exchange the tool post and all of the tool holders he has accumulated

 

[PeterT]

Yup, this situation happens quite often unfortunately. The issue is that some sellers / catalogs suggest toolpost size based on lathe swing. But the more critical sizing parameter is distance between top of compound & lathe axis. And on some offshore machines, compound resides noticeably higher than other lathes of similar swings. The Shars sketch shows this. Maybe it will help affirm what you need.

Personally I would bite the bullet & remedy the toolpost. I say that because its net easier. Hopefully they will be amenable even if you have to eat shipping/restock or flog it. Chewing away at your holders & shanks is doable but not fun. It can be pretty tough stuff if they did their job right. If you are like most of us, you will collect more & more toolholders. Its inevitable. Don't fight it. Just drink the KoolAide LOL. Try not to let that parting bladeholder tip the decision scale, there are plenty of straight shanked insert parting holders that work well & inexpensive.

Lately it seems like people have been saying holders from offshore A don't fit with offshore B (of the same model). Just a guess but I think this more to do with perpetually varying quality than adopting some new or modified standard. At least I've never seen published specs that deviate from the standard 60-deg & dovetail length. Once upon a time their whole mission was to clone N-Am holders, first poorly, then eventually pretty good. Now it seems like some bad apples again which makes this a bit of crap shoot sometimes. Try & stick with one supplier based on reputation if for no other reason is you stand some chance of refund/exchange if you already bought the same system. Even the crappy screws are borderline acceptable now.

Quick Change Tool Post Set Wedge Type #222 BXA

www.shars.com

Quick Change Tool Post & Holders

Shop Shars Tool today and experience our high quality quick change tool posts at a great value, same-day shipping, and dedicated customer support.

www.shars.com

 

[PeterT]

Just a side note. I like this style of general toolholder with a Vee in the base. They seem to grip rectangular tools no different than flat bottomed holders. But sometimes you have to grip cylindrical tooling & this is more secure than rolly-polly or yet another holder within a holder. A lot of insert type boring bars are already flattened & others are intended to reside in a socket block. That's different again. I just mean cylindrical things in general. I wouldn't make this a predominant set, but just saying a good one to try & have at your disposal..

 

[Dabbler]

@YYCHM I actually was trying to tell you the dovetail angle remains the same but the distance between and the depth of the dovetails varies in an AXA, BXA and CXA. I have one of all 3 tool posts in my shop now.

 

[Dabbler]

a Vee in the base

I have a few of those but I also use the flat bottom ones, and the vee ones from offshore seem to be a little weaker when taking really agressive cuts. I suppose I have 2/3 flat bottom, and 1/3 vee bottom.

The real Aloris tool holder conquers this by making the vee type a little thicker at the base, something like .080 thicker.

 

[PeterT]

Geez, maybe I will be eating my own words. Every dovetail spec I've seen has the 60-deg and some combination of the 3 dimensions: long dovetail length, short dovetail length, dovetail depth. Any 2 would fully define. From that you could work out dowel distances tangent to the dovetail if you made your own. It would be best if fillet radius was also stated, maybe let that pass because the toolpost wedge is usually generously chamferred.

Anyhoo, now I see this Shars picture up close. Short dovetail dimensioning from the crest of an undefined semi chamfer? Long dovetail dimensioning to the beginning of the radius? I hope this sketch is just intending to be helpful. Unfortunately confusing matters. You would be a brave person to send this to the shop machinist.

 

[Dabbler]

Even the offshore makers of tool holders don't have this nailed. @Tom Kitta has mentioned that he's had some fitting problems. I, fortunately, have not had any problems with fit.

I am moving away from the Aloris system on my big lathe and going Dickson. Dickson seems a lot more rigid, and suits the lathe better. I'll move my real Aloris to my smaller lathe, and probably sell my offshore BXA tool post sometime in the distant future.

 

[Susquatch]

I bought my QCTP from accusize as well as a lot of other tooling. I have found accusize to be good to deal with, but then I've always dealt with them in person. I too would ask them to exchange the tool post.

I have NEVER had a problem with Accusize returning or exchanging a product - even those I bought on Amazon. And I am too far to deal with them in person. Sometimes, they even upgrade me free of charge.

 

[Susquatch]

This is "genius" - I can take what he did there and run w/ it... as I learn more I can go back and help myself out by performing the small detail operations (slots in the bottom of the QCTP that matches up w/ the 'springed' locator pin, etc.).

Thanks a ton guys for paying attention, remembering what reference material that could help me, and then sharing it - extremely more helpful than I ever imagined I would get from a 'forum'.

I haven't used the t-slot cutter or the dove tail cutter that I picked up to for the mod... I think those were >$200 at a local supplier so that's appreciated.

I'm hoping the BXA will still work fine - @YotaBota you have a great suggestion... I was able to get 15% off that order so I'd really like to avoid having that conversation if possible. Remember that your first order from Accusize is 10% off if you sign up for their newsletter or whatever the ad is... I'm glad I contacted them by phone before my order; they volunteered the info on how to go about getting the discount.

I wouldn't be afraid of the discount conversation. They buy in volume and even get custom maker names on their stuff. They make good money. They will honour the original discount and it won't be a difficult conversation.

If you modify the BXA, it's yours forever.

Even though it can be done, I'd recommend against it. Parting tools will probably be a problem. Also, the tool holders themselves will be a problem. I have probably got 20 or more holders. I wouldn't really want to be cutting all of them down for a custom fit.

Edit - I see others have already covered most of this. But I didn't see anything to change my mind. I still recommend that you bite the bullet now and downsize the tool post to AXA. Don't underestimate how many tool holders you will end up with.

Having said that, another option is to have both....... Costs more but might give you flexibility.

 

[darrin1200]

@darrin1200 - 2002-2018; field portion of my 3's regimental would have been ~ Feb '03 and 5's ~ Jan '06/'07 (we were still using Cherokee's as MRTs for our RRR, I recall really enjoying being the "driver" because of the snow) - Dom was my best ANCIL supervisor throughout my career. I won the lottery w/ my back - happened while in KAF, super well documented even before an MO believed me (2010 injury, got to see medical attention for it ~'15/'16) and once believed I was referred to a civi-surgeon who essentially came back w/ a "you're ducked" assessment. I have family ties to your trade if you were in before '85 (I doubt it, math is close but not likely).

I can pretty well guarantee I was one of your instructors on your 5’s. if not a direct instructor, I was one of the assessors. I wish I could say I remembered you, but over almost 5 years in regimental, I essentially taught an entire generation of techs. Those were good times. I actually joined in 85. Did my 3’s in the spring of 86. It’s nice to find another REME RAT.

 

[ThirtyOneDriver]

I'm reading and processing everything - the BXA and AXA tool holders don't interchange with each other without modification (see pic - reference is in the file name - it's been posted somewhere in the forum before).


That being said - if I change the tool post to the AXA, all of the BXA tool holders will be too big. Hopefully, someone else is learning a bunch while researching whether to put a BXA or and AXA QCTP on their Craftex CX709.

On that note - I am hitting PAUSE until I can provide the 'hive mind' the best information - I'll spend some time in the shop/on SW, walk through my thoughts and the puzzle pieces so that I'm not being an askhole (soliciting for advice but not using it because I left out vital information/taking advice from too many spots that contradicts the best applicable options).

I do have a bias against returns - it's a personal mental block that I have; so, although it may be easiest solution in many, many ways, the mental block creates an obstacle that doesn't need to be there (no one's without their faults, right?). There may actually be less effort to fabricate a whole new lathe than identify and repair whatever the psychology that's creating that particular challenge.

Hopefully, I'll have something posted late this afternoon that walks through my variables, the tools that I have on hand, the materials, what the measurements are, what info/options/paths/solutions I see from the advice given and enough GOOD information that I can take advantage of the experience and knowledge that the community has available.

Thanks

 

[YotaBota]

Here's another option, you could always buy the AXA set for this lathe and put the BXA on a shelf for "when" (not if) you buy a lathe the BXA will fit.

@YotaBota are all of his tool holders compatible if he just exchanges the tool post?

I was gone when you posted the question but it looks like you were given the answer.