Waiting for knee bearing still Canada post slower then they predicted so as I wait I cleaned the DROs. The axis that was having issues was full of chips and oil so no wonder didn't work so I removed what was left of the seals with a bent tin can tab in a vise. then ran hot water and dawn down the dro tube then made sure there wasn't any chips stuck on backside of glass then wiped off glass with "lint free wipes" with the help of a homemade tool made from some aluminum Tig rod of glass then blew fuzz out of tube with air in can. Forgot to take before picture with all the chips but did take a picture of what was left of oil film after running hot water and dawn down tube. Didn't look like there is any scratches or damage so should work agian? Won't know untill I remount on mill worse case won't be any further behind. So now I'm on the hunt too find replacement seals.
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Bought a diamond in the rough mill probly
- Thread starter justin1
- Start date
Ok I'll have to try that tomorrow and see what happens and I did do the final clean is isopropyl alcohol to remove the oils seems to work well with light films.
Got the bearing delivered today and got mill thrown back together not adjusted yet looking for some more info on setting gibs the manual was pretty vague on tolerances. I did a bit of cleaning on mill but for most part it's probly as clean as it's gonna be for a while.
The dro I cleaned seems to work doesn't glitch out or anything so looks promising gonna order some new seals and call it good thinking these ones should work "Cheap seals link"
In my search for a power source found two 7.5 hp motors for 100$ and a 600v step down transformer for 500$ so that's the next project building a RPC and somewhere down the line building a knee crank handle and the missing knee lock bolts.
My mill came with one 3/4 EOC-25 collet and a cheap vise so enough to get me going I guess gonna look into maybe buying cat40 holders and used good collet set. May start new thread about getting a tool list started but I think I saw one here already so gonna look around see whats out there before starting extra thread for no reason I guess.
The dro I cleaned seems to work doesn't glitch out or anything so looks promising gonna order some new seals and call it good thinking these ones should work "Cheap seals link"
In my search for a power source found two 7.5 hp motors for 100$ and a 600v step down transformer for 500$ so that's the next project building a RPC and somewhere down the line building a knee crank handle and the missing knee lock bolts.
My mill came with one 3/4 EOC-25 collet and a cheap vise so enough to get me going I guess gonna look into maybe buying cat40 holders and used good collet set. May start new thread about getting a tool list started but I think I saw one here already so gonna look around see whats out there before starting extra thread for no reason I guess.
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DPittman
Ultra Member
If you already have the collet holder for your mill, you can buy EOC-25 collets reasonably cheap (more so with metric sizes)
There aren't as common as the er collets that's for sure can't really find any sets for sale more so just individual collets but I'll keep an eye out see what I find
DPittman
Ultra Member
I've only seen sets of these collets with a holder, otherwise yes you have to buy individual. That's what I've done and I have a pretty good mix of metric and imperial. My imperial ones mostly came with a mt3 holder set.
Hey Justin, what with that irregular jaw edge in this photo? Is that an illusion, intentional, or just worn out?
It's intentional I've just got very aggressive vise jaws nice for holding onto stuff not so nice for finished surfaces lol
@DPittman
Would it be better to just buy say 6 super commonly used collet sizes that a guy could fumble around a bit and still do good range of work then just buy the odd balls as needed? As not chinese collets are 60$ a pop for the eoc-25s ebay and Amazon just show me er25s and other collets that around what I'm looking for.
I guy could also buy a complete set of cheap Vevor cat 40 set for around 500$ all said and done. Then replace with better collets in future when a good deal comes around.
I guess there is few ways to go about it, but I would like to have a midrange quality set so I can have some level of repeatability. But currently I only own a 3/4 end mill Soo maybe not needed yet lol.
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Chipper5783
Super User
Cat40? I think you may be looking for NMTB40. Best to double check.
You asked what collet size to commit to? Mind the sales adds and usual used tools sources. I suggest it does not really matter, because after a while you will have several sizes. I think I have a set of the same system you have for that one 3/4” collet - the label on the kit describes it as OZ-25, it has worked well (but I have not tried to purchase any more collets, it works, I use it). My CNC came with TG100 chucks and collets, they are good, but some times too large and I don’t have the clearance. So I have since purchased sets/individual chucks/collets for ER20 & 25 & 32 & a few 40 and a very close clearance design called ADS.
Tooling can be an absolute run away when it comes to spending. There are a few approaches you could take. I suggest hold off and just purchase as you need things for a given task. Do you have any endmill holders? One idea is to have a few Weldon shank holders for the larger spindle tooling, then get a smaller size collet set for the small end mills (Such as ER20 or ER25), because they will give you clearance and allow you to get closer to clamps/vise etc.
Of course, it also depends on what jobs you are doing, as to what tooling you buy. For starters, buy per the jobs that come along - over time the tooling will build!
You asked what collet size to commit to? Mind the sales adds and usual used tools sources. I suggest it does not really matter, because after a while you will have several sizes. I think I have a set of the same system you have for that one 3/4” collet - the label on the kit describes it as OZ-25, it has worked well (but I have not tried to purchase any more collets, it works, I use it). My CNC came with TG100 chucks and collets, they are good, but some times too large and I don’t have the clearance. So I have since purchased sets/individual chucks/collets for ER20 & 25 & 32 & a few 40 and a very close clearance design called ADS.
Tooling can be an absolute run away when it comes to spending. There are a few approaches you could take. I suggest hold off and just purchase as you need things for a given task. Do you have any endmill holders? One idea is to have a few Weldon shank holders for the larger spindle tooling, then get a smaller size collet set for the small end mills (Such as ER20 or ER25), because they will give you clearance and allow you to get closer to clamps/vise etc.
Of course, it also depends on what jobs you are doing, as to what tooling you buy. For starters, buy per the jobs that come along - over time the tooling will build!
I understand SYOZ25-RDO35 and EOC-25 are different names for the same thing all of which are made to a DIN or EN spec. I also have read that they give a better grip on the tool than the typical ER collet system and that they have a narrower grip range.
My machine came with the same setup. Machinery Canada has SYOZ25-RDO35 collets for $20.25 although his stock has some holes in it. I've been waiting for some time for him to get a 1/4" in stock....
Machinery Canada
I also see individuals and sets on AliEx but of course that's Chinese.
D
DPittman
Ultra Member
That's a good price from that Canadian retailer provided there isn't another $20 shipping on each collet ordered. I think the last Aliexpress 0z25 collet I ordered was maybe $17? And I think about 5+ years ago I was paying less than $11 a piece?I understand SYOZ25-RDO35 and EOC-25 are different names for the same thing all of which are made to a DIN or EN spec. I also have read that they give a better grip on the tool than the typical ER collet system and that they have a narrower grip range.
My machine came with the same setup. Machinery Canada has SYOZ25-RDO35 collets for $20.25 although his stock has some holes in it. I've been waiting for some time for him to get a 1/4" in stock....
Machinery Canada
I also see individuals and sets on AliEx but of course that's Chinese.
D
Shipping is always going to be a pain. I introduced him to the Can Post flat rate pre-paid shipping boxes that you can ship several collets in for under $20, he had been thinking courier.
AliEx has them for $10 - 20 depending on the vendor. Not many inch sizes though.
@justin1 Nice job you're doing on that mill!
D
My mill is ISO-40 taper from what I've read I think cat40 is interchangeable and seems like a pretty common holder.
And ye I'm hoping to buy some stuff as I need and make stuff aswell. So far only got 1 tool holder with the one collet.
Don't even have T slots and hold downs yet I plan on making some when I get RPC finished lol
@Tecnico
I'll have to take a look what they have in stock and I'm not against Chinese stuff just annoying how much the quality varies. A 20$ tool and a 80$ tool could have same quality and made by same factory only difference is the reseller so it's hard to go off price alone with Chinese stuff and the name means nothing as it's just what ever the reseller slapped on it most of the time.
Also thanks I'm looking forward to make first few cuts.
Another annoying thing about the Okanagan maybe anywhere in Canada not in a big city is tool availability kinda hard to take on odd jobs just to have to wait minimum of a week to order anything because nowhere stocks anything anymore.
Chipper5783
Super User
Cat40, BT40, NT40 (which I think is the same as NMTB40), SK40 are all #40 taper - they use
different arrangements for pulling the tool in. The Cat40 and BT40 use a swappable pull stud (selected per the spindle’s retaining device) - the back of the holder is shorter and threaded for the pull stud. My VMC is BT40, I have acquired tools from various sources and they are all threaded M16 (though I would not claim that is always true).
The traditional knee mill, like you have, is typically NMTB40 (I believe that is the same as NT40), with the long bolt through the spindle that threads directly into the back of the tool - it is generally 5/8-11 thread. The back of the tool is extended (you don’t use a pull stud). There probably are exceptions, but 5/8-11 is very, very, very common on the traditional knee mill. Perhaps you can use Cat40, may need a slightly longer through bolt (maybe a different thread). Post a picture of that one tool (the collet chuck), and confirm the thread - folks here can likely confirm for you.
Good luck with the ”new” machine, it looks like it will turn out great.
different arrangements for pulling the tool in. The Cat40 and BT40 use a swappable pull stud (selected per the spindle’s retaining device) - the back of the holder is shorter and threaded for the pull stud. My VMC is BT40, I have acquired tools from various sources and they are all threaded M16 (though I would not claim that is always true).
The traditional knee mill, like you have, is typically NMTB40 (I believe that is the same as NT40), with the long bolt through the spindle that threads directly into the back of the tool - it is generally 5/8-11 thread. The back of the tool is extended (you don’t use a pull stud). There probably are exceptions, but 5/8-11 is very, very, very common on the traditional knee mill. Perhaps you can use Cat40, may need a slightly longer through bolt (maybe a different thread). Post a picture of that one tool (the collet chuck), and confirm the thread - folks here can likely confirm for you.
Good luck with the ”new” machine, it looks like it will turn out great.
My mill has an R8 taper which is less robust but more common and easy to get collets etc. Accusize has a bunch of collet chuck sets for 40 taper spindle. You can determine which will work for you based on which drawbar thread you have. I use a R8-ER40 chuck with a set of metric ER40 collets. Each collet has a clamping range of 1 full millimeter so a metric set can grip any tool from 4mm to 26mm. There are lots of choices at this Amazon link. Accusize stuff is usually decent quality.
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Mk the braw bar I have now was modified to use different tool holder I think they were using cat40 without stud and just using draw bar to use it because my iso 40 holder now bottoms out before it seats in taper. So Im gonna make a coller to lift the draw bar back up to use iso 40.
But the draw bar is a pretty easy shape a guy could make a draw bar for each type of #40 if he wanted.
@John Conroy
Mk I was looking at some of accusize other tooling it had pretty good reviews that's good to hear that there stuff is ok. I'm hoping to work in the .001 range as not much I want to do needs to be any more accurate. I might get a set of er40 SAE i do most stuff in imperial and I guess with small enough cutter I could do any size slot in 2 passes
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Chipper5783
Super User
If you end up landing a bunch of whatever holders for cheap, then you can likely make most anything work. Obviously you don’t need the tool changer groove, but it won’t hurt anything either (there are differences in the keys too - but that can be worked out.
Right now I swap between SK40 and 5/8-11 on the little Maho, not a big deal. I also made a double treaded pull stud to use BT40 on the Maho, no drawbar to change, but I have to pull the drive keys. The work arounds are possible, but it certainly is a pain. The truth is that I’m gradually spending the cash to get to the point that I can keep the same spindle arrangement - the set up that the original manufacturer intended.
Right now I swap between SK40 and 5/8-11 on the little Maho, not a big deal. I also made a double treaded pull stud to use BT40 on the Maho, no drawbar to change, but I have to pull the drive keys. The work arounds are possible, but it certainly is a pain. The truth is that I’m gradually spending the cash to get to the point that I can keep the same spindle arrangement - the set up that the original manufacturer intended.
Ye I order a set of oz25 collets to use the collet holder I got with machine I'm gonna slowly add stuff to my collection ideally gonna stick with cat40 or iso40 but see what happens lol.
Anyway this will probly be last update regarding fixing mill as there really isn't anything left to fix on it anymore.
I made a 600v RPC more or less complete just need 90° connector and it's done. Then i did all the adjustments to make it run true and tight. I was able to adjusted my play in X/Y axis to .001 and my Z axis was .0005 range so I'm pretty happy with that everything moves smoothly my Z axis is bit tight going up vs down but I'm using a pipe wrench atm to raise and lower when I get my collets and endmills gonna make a proper handle and then adjust if needed.
I also make a 3/4 adapter for a kms boring head from some old shaft stock I had laying around I have project in mind that needs some boring
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Ironman
Ultra Member
I use air on all machines and I don't drive swarf in where it doesn't belong. Ways get rag wiped. I used a vaccum for a few years but digging out chips and curls from a plugged shop vac hose was too much fun, so I went with air and rags.
I will say that if I hadn't got a good deal on my mill I would have taken it back and got after my money. It was a flood coolant machine and was the most disgusting filthy mess I ever dealt with. Congealed coolant and fine swarf mixed makes an excellent cutting surface on moving parts, and I tried every solvent from varsol to MEK, but hand scraping was the only way to clean it out. Some areas such as the sump in the base will never be cleaned. I dumped 2 bags of floor dry in and put the plate back on.
Daily cleaning of a machine is the answer, and I am guilty of failure there.
I will say that if I hadn't got a good deal on my mill I would have taken it back and got after my money. It was a flood coolant machine and was the most disgusting filthy mess I ever dealt with. Congealed coolant and fine swarf mixed makes an excellent cutting surface on moving parts, and I tried every solvent from varsol to MEK, but hand scraping was the only way to clean it out. Some areas such as the sump in the base will never be cleaned. I dumped 2 bags of floor dry in and put the plate back on.
Daily cleaning of a machine is the answer, and I am guilty of failure there.