Best type of face mill?

[Susquatch]

I was wondering it that is to many for a cutter that size in an RF45 type mill.

I don't think that's a big issue. You don't need to use all the inserts. You could choose 2, 3, or 6 which would all balance. In fact, you could even use 1 like a fly cutter if it doesnt vibrate too much. Or even add a piece of steel to balance it on the opposite side.

 

[Megar arc 5040dd]

Thanks. I never thought of running it with less inserts. I guess as long as it's balanced it should work.

 

[quitereal]

I recently got a 4 inch, 7 flute facemill and a machinist friend told me to run it with just 1 or 2 flutes, that would provide a better finish.
Im not sure if this is why he meant that but elsewhere ive heard more flutes will drag in chips and smear the surface... Maybe blast with air the whole time to clear chips? I know i have some experimenting to do on that front.

 

[Mcgyver]

I recently got a 4 inch, 7 flute facemill and a machinist friend told me to run it with just 1 or 2 flutes, that would provide a better finish.
Im not sure if this is why he meant that but elsewhere ive heard more flutes will drag in chips and smear the surface...

In a light mill, you won't be able to keep a feed rate high enough to use all those inserts, i.e. it will be making dust. There is also how a chip is formed to be considered, pressure sets up a shear plane ahead of the cut etc. When the chip gets too small, this can be challenging unless the cutter is super sharp (inserts aren't); it can force the cutter to more drag/ bounce across the surface instead of setting up the shear plane. Reducing the number makes it more like a flycutter.

On my vertical mill which is R8, I have some the small, maybe 1 1/4" ir 1 1/2" three tooth insert cutters, anything larger, I use HSS in a fly cutter. Don't grind the hss like a knife, it needs to be like a facing tool - i.e. you are not plunging with it. I've larger insert face cutters I use on my 5hp horizontal (40 taper) mill and they are something - you can bury them and take 100 thou off with a shower of blue chips sprays everywhere .... but not on an R8. imo that cutter is too big for r8, but it could work taking out inserts and going very lightly.

Trammed properly, a cut doesn't have to be done in one pass.

The diagram below I did ages ago trying to show how sharpness affects the shear plane. It was around describing scraping and why the edge has to be so fine, but it is also applicable to understanding why the cutting tool will stop performing if the chip size gets too small. For a given sharpness, because of how the shear plane length depends on sharpness, there is a point where it won't cut properly. Also, keep in mind where the cutting edge is ( mostly the side, not downward) slowing the feed down (not just DOC) creates problems with the chip's formation.

 

[quitereal]

Ya that 4 inch i spoke of is on a 50 taper arbor with a 1.25 stub. I saw somewhere a rule of thumb for 50 taper stubs was 1.5 inch -> 5 inch facemill, 1.25 -> 4inch, 1 -> 3inch. So that integrated R8 one megar picked out is probably good for his setup eh
The feeling Im getting is to chase the chip load - pick your rpm, calculate your feedrate to make sure you get say .005-.010 chip load. Sfm is secondary or more a function of "efficiency" - for production and material removal rates youll want to approach the rated sfm. But for home gamers just make sure chipload is proper.

RPM/Feed imperial calculators

theoreticalmachinist.com

For facemills just change the number of cutters. This is all independent of DOC - bury it up to the insert limits if ya like. But too small like .0005 may give bad results - what should a guy aim for for a finish pass? Minimum .010 or so?
My epiphany is that chasing the chipload should apply for any machining ops - twist drills, lathe cuts, face mills, everything. Run the numbers to get a specific chip load.
I dont know much so i really appreciate guys like mcgyver chiming in, very helpful in my own learning journey.

 

[Susquatch]

But too small like .0005 may give bad results - what should a guy aim for for a finish pass? Minimum .010 or so?

This depends on the insert and /or the grind of the hss cutter.

Here is a great video to complement @Mcgyver's drawing. I like to 4D visualize in my head what is happening to help me understand any given situation. This video should help you see what happens. You can modify the cutter shape yourself in your own mind once you get the cutting process right.

And here is another

 

[Tom Kitta]

You can get RF-45 facemill cheap from ali - no need for expensive stuff from Amazon - its same product - identical.

NEW-R8 Fmb22 Arbor 400R 50Mm Face End Mill Shell Cutter +4X Apmt1604 Carbide Inserts - AliExpress 1420

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

www.aliexpress.com

Going over 2" is possible but I think you would need to take out inserts / run in AL or similar.

My BP clone can handle over 2" but I find myself using 2" the most. And that is NMTB40. My horizontal can do touch more. Solid spindle.

 

[Megar arc 5040dd]

You can get RF-45 facemill cheap from ali - no need for expensive stuff from Amazon - its same product - identical.

NEW-R8 Fmb22 Arbor 400R 50Mm Face End Mill Shell Cutter +4X Apmt1604 Carbide Inserts - AliExpress 1420

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

www.aliexpress.com

Going over 2" is possible but I think you would need to take out inserts / run in AL or similar.

My BP clone can handle over 2" but I find myself using 2" the most. And that is NMTB40. My horizontal can do touch more. Solid spindle.

The reason I was looking at the accusize one was only because I have bought from them before and could first read customer reviews. I do like the price of the ali just unsure of if it will be usable Quality and if it is not how hard is it to return?

 

[Tom Kitta]

The reason I was looking at the accusize one was only because I have bought from them before and could first read customer reviews. I do like the price of the ali just unsure of if it will be usable Quality and if it is not how hard is it to return?

Its identical to accusize stuff - as you can see per pictures. Read reviews. If you show defects they refund you your money so no need to send it back.
Aliexpress recently made any dispute process like super duper easy.

 

[Megar arc 5040dd]

Its identical to accusize stuff - as you can see per pictures. Read reviews. If you show defects they refund you your money so no need to send it back.
Aliexpress recently made any dispute process like super duper easy.

I may have to give it a try.

 

[Susquatch]

I'll make the pitch to go with Accusize.

For one thing, they offer our members a discount.

For another they are a Canadian vendor. I will almost always spend more to buy from a Canadian vendor even if its the same product sourced from the same place in China.

For another, they have always gone waaaay over board to make me happy.

Returns are super easy.

Last but not least, you will get it FAST.

You can also buy accusize on amazon.

 

[Megar arc 5040dd]

My logic might be flawed but I'm thinking I have a better chance of the tool not having run out issues with the accuzise one simply because it is all one piece as apposed to 2 pieces fit together. Or am I completely wrong. I mostly care about getting a usable tool if I can do it for cheaper then I can get more tools. I have a limited budget.

 

[Susquatch]

My logic might be flawed but I'm thinking I have a better chance of the tool not having run out issues with the accuzise one simply because it is all one piece as apposed to 2 pieces fit together. Or am I completely wrong. I mostly care about getting a usable tool if I can do it for cheaper then I can get more tools. I have a limited budget.

I usually prefer 2 piece so I can use it elsewhere. But 1 piece is gunna be more solid. If you want one piece, make sure that's what it really is. Look for Integral or 1 piece or builtin arbour or or or.

 

[MrWhoopee]

Here's the facemill I got for when I don't need a square corner. It's a real ripper, and the inserts are tremendous

Loading…

www.aliexpress.us

an R8-FMB22-7-16 (for 7/16-20 drawbar) or R8-FMB22-M12 (for M12 drawbar) is required.

Loading…

www.aliexpress.us

Its identical to accusize stuff - as you can see per pictures. Read reviews. If you show defects they refund you your money so no need to send it back.
Aliexpress recently made any dispute process like super duper easy.

I also bought the one that Tom recommended. I use it a lot and have been so pleased with it's performance that I bought an assortment of the smaller sizes with integral straight shanks. The shanks are metric, so I turn them to the next smaller inch size to fit my collets.

Loading…

www.aliexpress.us

These inserts are the best I have found so far.

Loading…

www.aliexpress.us

 

[quitereal]

Holy crap thats cheap, how was the fit between arbor and facemill?

 

[Megar arc 5040dd]

Here's the facemill I got for when I don't need a square corner. It's a real ripper, and the inserts are tremendous

Loading…

www.aliexpress.us

an R8-FMB22-7-16 (for 7/16-20 drawbar) or R8-FMB22-M12 (for M12 drawbar) is required.

Loading…

www.aliexpress.us

I also bought the one that Tom recommended. I use it a lot and have been so pleased with it's performance that I bought an assortment of the smaller sizes with integral straight shanks. The shanks are metric, so I turn them to the next smaller inch size to fit my collets.

Loading…

www.aliexpress.us

These inserts are the best I have found so far.

Loading…

www.aliexpress.us

The second link doesn't take me to anything.

what is the difference between the H2 and M2 inserts?

 

[Megar arc 5040dd]

What is the difference between a face mill that uses bap300r and bap400r. I can't find information explaining the difference and the pictures seem to all look identical to me. The only thing I found was a post where someone said one used the opposite corners of the insert than the other but left it vague. Does one not cut 90 degrees?

 

[justin1]

I bought 2 shell mills from AliExpress and so far I haven't had any issues with them. Even bought bunch of flavors of inserts to go with and didn't cost arm and leg.

The seller who sells this shell mills also sell the arbors for them aswell. The 2" one that I got is around 30$ shipped not sure how much an arbor for it would be but probly be around 100$ for inserts arbor and head all said and done.

MFWN MFWN900 double sided hexagonal heavy cutting milling cutter head WNMU0806 milling insert,for FMB Tool Holder bracket tool - AliExpress

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

www.aliexpress.com

 

[MrWhoopee]

Holy crap thats cheap, how was the fit between arbor and facemill?

Just as it should be, nice and snug.

 

[MrWhoopee]

What is the difference between a face mill that uses bap300r and bap400r. I can't find information explaining the difference and the pictures seem to all look identical to me. The only thing I found was a post where someone said one used the opposite corners of the insert than the other but left it vague. Does one not cut 90 degrees?

I can't say for certain, but basically it is the size. It may be the insert size, but they all mount the insert the same way and cut 90 deg.